topic Re: change over in Home Phone

change over

rehtnap2023 — Tue, 05 Sep 2023 17:26:51 GMT

simple question....come the change over to digital will plusnet offer a VoIP service where by i can keep a landline...to me if not its time to dump them and go to such as bt who do offer the service

Re: change over

jab1 — Tue, 05 Sep 2023 17:34:02 GMT

Simple answer - No, the PN brand will not offer a VoIP service - a decision made by the owners, BT.There are other ISPs who will 'bundle' a VoIP service, but there are also VoIP providers who will provide one, irrespective of your ISP.

Re: change over

JSHarris — Tue, 05 Sep 2023 17:35:26 GMT

Loads of threads here discussing the exact same concern. Right now the answer seems to be no, Plusnet have no apparent intention to provide a VOIP service. If you have a Plusnet landline phone, and wish to retain a non-mobile phone service in future, then you will need to sort out a solution yourself.

You can search here for relevant threads, or just use these links:

https://community.plus.net/t5/Home-Phone/landlines-are-being-fazed-out/td-p/1932724

https://community.plus.net/t5/Home-Phone/Voice-migration/td-p/1932900

https://community.plus.net/t5/Tech-Help-Software-Hardware-etc/Recommend-a-voip-account-only-service/...

https://community.plus.net/t5/Home-Phone/phone-change-over/td-p/1933885

https://community.plus.net/t5/Home-Phone/Will-Plusnet-use-EE-s-new-Digital-Home-Phone-to-replace-lan...

https://community.plus.net/t5/Home-Phone/Will-plusnet-provide-a-voip-landline-service/td-p/1898912

https://community.plus.net/t5/Home-Phone/Switching-from-FTTC-to-a-VOIP-service/td-p/1932695

https://community.plus.net/t5/Home-Phone/Change-Home-Phone-to-VoIP-with-new-number/td-p/1936336

Re: change over

rehtnap2023 — Tue, 05 Sep 2023 17:48:56 GMT

well if they dont i wont be staying with pn.. better to have one isp supply both...stupid decision by pn to me

Re: change over

jab1 — Tue, 05 Sep 2023 17:51:08 GMT

As I said in my original reply, the decision is not that of the PN brand, but of the BT Consumer Division.

Re: change over

JSHarris — Tue, 05 Sep 2023 20:18:06 GMT

@rehtnap2023 wrote:

well if they dont i wont be staying with pn.. better to have one isp supply both...stupid decision by pn to me

I think there is general agreement with your view, but as mentioned above this doesn't seem to be something under Plusnet's control. The impression I have is that BT are calling the shots. That's also supported by fact that BT seem to be rolling out a fairly reasonable VOIP service to their own customers.

One problem with providing a landline-equivalent service is that it's complicated. The number of landline customers is reducing as more and more people switch to only using mobiles. There are also a number of problematic issues related to some landline customers.

Some have devices connected to their landlines for services like alarms, including fall alarms used by those less able. Getting all the various non-phone devices to work reliably over VOIP is probably a bit challenging, so it could well be that BT have opted to make their own direct offering the groups only comprehensive VOIP service.

VOIP is most probably going to be a dead end, commercially, anyway. It's only going to provide a service for a small and reducing number of users. My guess is that it will end up being just a specialist service for those unable to get a mobile phone signal before too long.

Re: change over

198kHz — Wed, 06 Sep 2023 10:26:51 GMT

@rehtnap2023 wrote:

simple question....come the change over to digital will plusnet offer a VoIP service where by i can keep a landline...to me if not its time to dump them and go to such as bt who do offer the service

My contract (FTTC with analogue phone line) ended in June, so it seemed a good time to get things sorted now, with one supplier.

I migrated to Zen, and everything went very smoothly. £30 might seem a tad high for broadband, but the Digital Voice (same phone number) is only £6, which includes 1000 minutes to landlines and mobiles. And there are no mid-contact price hikes.

The supplied FRITZ!Box router performs well. I have a single phone plugged into the router, though of course a DECT base could be used instead. The router also has an integral DECT base if required.

With the Fritz FON app, incoming calls ring the phone and my mobile, so the call can be taken on either - very handy when in the garage or garden.

ps Some of the info on the website can give the impression that you have to have full fibre for Digital Voice, but I'm still on FTTC.

Re: change over

JSHarris — Wed, 06 Sep 2023 13:03:10 GMT

Seems that the switching off of the PSTN landline service may be attracting some media attention now. There was a piece on "You and Yours" on R4 at lunchtime discussing failings with BTs Digital Voice switchover, leaving elderly and vulnerable people with an inadequate, or simply non-functioning, phone service. Covered exactly the same concerns I have, both for ourselves and for an elderly relative who is very reliant on her landline, both for the phone (no mobile signal) and for her fall alarm (automatically rings us and others if she has a fall).

Reinforced my decision to opt to sort this out early, and test the robustness of the new VOIP service through this winter, before we lose the landline. Based just on the relatively short time I've had VOIP working I've already concluded that it isn't safe as an emergency phone if there's a power cut, simply because broadband (we have FTTC) just stops working a bit over half an hour after the power goes off (the local cabinet seems to just die after 35 minutes). Not great in comparison to the PSTN, that stayed up for days during the long duration power outage we had a few years ago.

Re: change over

MisterW — Wed, 06 Sep 2023 13:27:49 GMT

Based just on the relatively short time I've had VOIP working I've already concluded that it isn't safe as an emergency phone if there's a power cut, simply because broadband (we have FTTC) just stops working a bit over half an hour after the power goes off (the local cabinet seems to just die after 35 minutes)

It should be much better on FTTP , since there's no power needed between premises and the head end/exchange. One presumes that the exchanges are able to provide similar backup for FTTP that is provided for PTSN ?

Obviously that doesnt sort out the backup need for the ONT/Router/Voip at the premises...

Re: change over

Protech — Wed, 06 Sep 2023 13:47:47 GMT

In my view Plusnet, by not providing a voice service, puts plusnet in breach of the USO obligations. According to Ofcom, the USO obligations apples to BT and any wholly owned subsidiaries, ie EE and plusnet. EE are in compliance as they supply the equivalent of digital voice.

Re: change over

MisterW — Wed, 06 Sep 2023 14:25:45 GMT

I believe the USO applies to BT Group Plc, so at least one part of the organisation must meet the USO. I dont believe that all parts need to meet it.

Re: change over

JSHarris — Wed, 06 Sep 2023 14:36:06 GMT

@MisterW wrote:

It should be much better on FTTP , since there's no power needed between premises and the head end/exchange. One presumes that the exchanges are able to provide similar backup for FTTP that is provided for PTSN ?

Obviously that doesnt sort out the backup need for the ONT/Router/Voip at the premises...

Unfortunately the problem is the same with both FTTP and FTTC, as the issue is the backup battery pack in the cabinets. The PSTN (and roadside cabinets it uses) are powered from the exchange, with massive batteries and generator back up (had a trip around an exchange once - massive 50V bus bars carrying hundreds of amps around the place!). The fibre cabinets only have a mains supply, with a relatively small backup battery. If there's a power cut then the cabinets won't stay up for anywhere near as long as the PSTN exchanges and the lines they power.

Having backup power at the consumer end is another (new-ish) requirement that people need to sort out for themselves. Although our DECT phones glitch out during a power cut (because of the couple of seconds it takes for our emergency power to switchover) we don't rely on them, as we have a line powered phone directly plugged in to the incoming line, to ensure the phone works no matter what.

The solution I've adopted for a replacement for the PSTN landline is to power the modem, router, analogue telephone adapter and the new 4G router from a fairly cheap APC uninterruptible power supply, the type sold for home PCs. That provides enough power to keep things going for about an hour or so, but all it really needs to do is hold power up whilst our emergency battery power system switches over, or hold power up in the event that the automatic switchover doesn't work. We have about 22kWh of emergency backup power, so if we eke that out we can last a couple of days with the grid off.

We've only ever had one really long power cut here (Christmas 2013) and after that a lot of the poorest condition cables were replaced, so since then I think the longest we've gone without power has been around 8 or 9 hours (that was earlier this year). Most power cuts seem to only last an hour or two (had three of those here in the past month). What I find hilarious is that we live 12 miles from a fairly large city, yet have a grid supply like a third world country.

Re: change over

Protech — Wed, 06 Sep 2023 14:51:34 GMT

@MisterW
OFCOM define BT as
"BT" means British Telecommunications plc, whose registered company number is 01800000, and any British Telecommunications plc subsidiary or holding company.
And my understanding is that the USO obligations apples to BT as as whole.

Re: change over

Mustrum — Wed, 06 Sep 2023 15:06:18 GMT

@Protech USO applies to BT and KCOM, nothing to do with subsidiary companies, never mind others like SKY or TT and so on due to market share. Even Ofcom are not that daft to think it applies anywhere else.!

Re: change over

JSHarris — Wed, 06 Sep 2023 15:20:59 GMT

Thanks for highlighting this, I'd never heard of USO obligations before. For anyone that wants to read chapter and verse on what BT (and all its subsidiaries) are obliged to provide then the details are here: https://www.ofcom.org.uk/phones-telecoms-and-internet/information-for-industry/telecoms-competition-regulation/general-conditions-of-entitlement/universal-service-obligation and here: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2003/1904/contents/made

The key information is in the schedule to the legislation, here: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2003/1904/schedule/made

Having read it, I'm far from convinced that the spirit of this legislation is being adhered to. The 2003 act was clearly intended to provide some sort of safety net, so that the big players in the telephone/internet business were forced to provide at least a basic level of connectivity to everyone, and not choose to cease to provide services in less profitable regions.

Re: change over

MisterW — Wed, 06 Sep 2023 15:36:38 GMT

Unfortunately the problem is the same with both FTTP and FTTC, as the issue is the backup battery pack in the cabinets.

@JSHarris FTTP does not go through the cabinets. The FTTP network is a PON network (Passive optical network) there's no power supply except at the exchange and the user premises i.e the ONT

Re: change over

JSHarris — Wed, 06 Sep 2023 15:50:59 GMT

@MisterW wrote:

@JSHarris FTTP does not go through the cabinets. The FTTP network is a PON network (Passive optical network) there's no power supply except at the exchange and the user premises i.e the ONT

Interesting, as that differs from what I was told by the chap working on our local cabinet a couple of years ago. He told me that the fibre came in to the cabinet from the exchange around 12 miles away, and that the gubbins in the cabinet retransmitted data out to local homes.

I specifically asked if there was any power requirement to keep things going, as at the time a group of us were looking to club together to try and get FTTP. I was quoted £35k for a single FTTP connection - our hope was that by clubbing together we could reduce the FTTP cost (turned out that we couldn't, but that's another story more related to OpenReach). In the course of the chat with the chap at the cabinet he did explain that the cabinet had the capability to drive fibre connections to our homes, but mentioned that the units needed to do this were still reliant on the cabinet power supply.

As an aside, our local telephone exchange (along with many others I believe) was decommissioned more than 20 years ago (it's now a house). My understanding is that the reason we need cabinet power is because our exchange is around 12 miles away, and that there is some sort of multiplexing that goes on in the cabinet to take our lines (be they fibre or wire) and transfer the data up and down the fibre to the distant exchange.

Re: change over

MisterW — Wed, 06 Sep 2023 16:02:28 GMT

@JSHarris that's exactly how FTTC works. The fibre connects back to the exchange and is converted to a VDSL signal, at the cabinet, transmitted over the copper pairs to local homes. The conversion is done via 'line cards' in the FTTC cabinet and that's what needs the local power. The FTTP network is completely separate and goes via CBT's (connectorised block terminals) either on the poles or underground back to the exchange https://www.increasebroadbandspeed.co.uk/fttp-full-fibre-broadband-installation