topic Re: landlines are being fazed out in Home Phone

landlines are being fazed out

esherapril27 — Sun, 06 Aug 2023 14:19:20 GMT

I understand that landlines are being fazed out how do you go about making calls

Re: landlines are being fazed out

jab1 — Sun, 06 Aug 2023 14:24:00 GMT

You use a VoIP (Voice over Internet Protocol) service. Who is your ISP?

Re: landlines are being fazed out

esherapril27 — Sun, 06 Aug 2023 15:07:37 GMT

I'm with Plusnet I have just found some info on gov.uk which was helpful, according to Plusnet I will not be able to use my landline phones but Gov.uk said I will but instead of using the old copper wire connection it will go via the internet so I think I'll wait and see

Re: landlines are being fazed out

JSHarris — Tue, 08 Aug 2023 15:33:21 GMT

Plusnet are (at least at the moment) not going to be providing any landline/VOIP telephone services when the PSTN (Public Switched Telephone Network) is taken out of service. They have started decommisioning the PSTN and the current plan is that all of it will be decommissioned by December 2025.

As of now, your future choices (when the PSTN is decommissioned in your area) are to switch to using a mobile phone only, to switch ISP away from Plusnet to one that is providing a telephone service via broadband (many of them are already) or to make your own arrangements to switch to a VOIP telephone service provider.

For either of the latter two options then you will need to do some work to get your existing landline phones to work. If you switch ISP to one that offers a broadband hub with a phone socket and VOIP service then you can re-wire your home phones to connect to that and use that service. This is probably the easiest option, and may well be "plug and play". If you wish to stick with Plusnet for broadband, but also make your home phones work, then you need to get a thing called an ATA (Analogue Telephone Adapter) and re-wire your home phones into that, connect that to an Ethernet port on your home hub/router and set up a VOIP service with a separate provider (who will charge for the "line" and any calls made).

Moderator's note by Mike (Mav): Full quote of preceding post removed as per Forum rules.

Re: landlines are being fazed out

RobPN — Sun, 06 Aug 2023 15:25:26 GMT

@esherapril27 wrote:

I'm with Plusnet I have just found some info on gov.uk which was helpful, according to Plusnet I will not be able to use my landline phones but Gov.uk said I will but instead of using the old copper wire connection it will go via the internet so I think I'll wait and see

Yes, your calls will be made via the Internet, i.e. VoIP as @jab1 said.

And unless you've got FTTP (full fibre) installed by that time, then the Internet connection your VoIP will be using will still be via that old copper wire (xDSL)!

You will still be able to use any analogue phones you have by plugging them into an ATA (or a device containing one).

Whether PN will be offering their own VoIP service remains to be seen.

Re: landlines are being fazed out

jab1 — Sun, 06 Aug 2023 15:27:54 GMT

Whether PN will be offering their own VoIP service remains to be seen.

I have sincere doubts about that, @RobPN

Re: landlines are being fazed out

RobPN — Sun, 06 Aug 2023 15:32:26 GMT

Just giving PN the benefit of the doubt @jab1

Re: landlines are being fazed out

bmc — Sun, 06 Aug 2023 16:17:50 GMT

@esherapril27

Calls will be made over VOIP. This has a major disadvantage of not working during power cuts unless you have a back up power supply.

There are many VOIP providers. The following link is one of them which will give you some idea of what's involved.

https://www.aa.net.uk/voice-and-mobile/voip-information/

You could have a look at the following to see what's available via OpenReach.

https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/#/ADSL

WBC FTTP in the left hand column would be good but what does it say under the heading of WBC SOGEA

Brian

Re: landlines are being fazed out

JSHarris — Sun, 06 Aug 2023 16:26:20 GMT

@RobPN wrote:

Just giving PN the benefit of the doubt @jab1

If Plusnet are (belatedly) going to offer a VOIP service, then they really need to make that announcement immediately. It seems that the issue of the PSTN being decommissioned, and the problems this will create for landline users, is at last getting some attention - a glance at this forum topic alone shows that.

I consider myself reasonably switched on, despite having retired 12 years ago, but the first I heard about the decommissioning of the PSTN was about two weeks ago, from a local news item where an elderly lady was very concerned at losing her only means of contact with the world outside her home. Even then, I only took notice as she happens to live very close to us.

I remain convinced that we each need to be proactive and seek out a solution that meets our needs long before the PSTN switch off date. I have zero faith in OFCOM, or the government for that matter, as I doubt either have the slightest interest in the minority of us that live in rural areas without mobile phone connectivity. Curious really, as the number of people that can't get a mobile signal at home is greater than many minorities that manage to get a fair bit of government attention.

Last time I checked around 10% of the UK was still without decent mobile coverage, and that figure is inaccurate. We are shown as being in an area with "good 4G indoors and out", which is a complete joke, as we can just about get 2G when leaning out of an upstairs bedroom window, with the phone held at arms length (and that's with the only provider that has any coverage here).

Re: landlines are being fazed out

Protech — Sun, 06 Aug 2023 17:22:25 GMT

@JSHarris

I suspect that Plusnet's eventual solution to it's customers that wish to retain voice services will be to offer migration to BT on some kind of "special deal". Similar to that offered to plusnet mobile customers who wish to move to EE.

This is pure conjecture on my behalf at this point in time.

I agree that the near total "radio silence" in publicity for what is one of the UKs most significant infrastructure change in decades is concerning. Especially for those who rely on landline and it's associated services. It's good to hear that there is starting to be some media coverage of this.

Re: landlines are being fazed out

JSHarris — Tue, 08 Aug 2023 15:34:51 GMT

I tend to agree.

The hassle this is creating is significant, especially for those with elderly friends/relatives that rely on their landline phone. My wife called her mother (partially sighted, lives alone, in her 90's) this afternoon, to tell her about this change and find out if she'd heard about it. She hadn't. She has a fall alarm necklace, that calls our landline and my wife's brother's landline if she has a fall.

She'd heard nothing about this change, and got quite agitated when my wife told her that her alarm may stop working. She had a fall down the stairs earlier this year, and my wife spent a week down there looking after her, and it was only the fall alarm that alerted us to the problem.

I can see that I may have to drive down to see her and see what can be done to get her phone system future proofed. Won't be easy, as she views technology with suspicion. Every time either of us sees her we make sure to turn on her answering machine, as she rarely hears the phone or answers it. She always turns the damned thing off, as she feels that it's a nuisance!

Not great, as we live 120 miles away.

Moderator's note by Mike (Mav): Full quote of preceding post removed as per Forum rules.

Re: landlines are being fazed out

Mark280 — Sun, 06 Aug 2023 18:00:23 GMT

@JSHarris wrote:

... Last time I checked around 10% of the UK was still without decent mobile coverage, and that figure is inaccurate. We are shown as being in an area with "good 4G indoors and out", which is a complete joke, as we can just about get 2G when leaning out of an upstairs bedroom window, with the phone held at arms length (and that's with the only provider that has any coverage here).

Have you checked whether your mobile phone(s) have 'WiFi Calling' capability?

WiFi calling could overcome the lack of mobile signal.

Re: landlines are being fazed out

Anonymous — Sun, 06 Aug 2023 18:16:58 GMT

Not much use when the internet fails after 20 minutes in to a power cut - when having a mobile signal is of most importance

@JSHarris wrote:

Sadly the fibre cabinet falls over when there's a power cut, it seems to last for about 20 minutes and then dies, presumably because the cabinet only has a small backup battery. Not a lot of use when power cuts lasting several hours are commonplace in winter.

Re: landlines are being fazed out

Mark280 — Sun, 06 Aug 2023 18:42:39 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

Not much use when the internet fails after 20 minutes in to a power cut - when having a mobile signal is of most importance

But - WiFi calling - potentially very useful, probably >99% of the time (when you don't have a power cut/Internet outage).

Otherwise - power cut time - back to leaning out of upstairs window (or other contingency plan).

Re: landlines are being fazed out

JSHarris — Sun, 06 Aug 2023 18:50:28 GMT

@Mark280 wrote:

@JSHarris wrote:

... Last time I checked around 10% of the UK was still without decent mobile coverage, and that figure is inaccurate. We are shown as being in an area with "good 4G indoors and out", which is a complete joke, as we can just about get 2G when leaning out of an upstairs bedroom window, with the phone held at arms length (and that's with the only provider that has any coverage here).

Have you checked whether your mobile phone(s) have 'WiFi Calling' capability?

WiFi calling could overcome the lack of mobile signal.

We don't really use our mobiles much (no point when the signal locally is very poor) so we both have PAYG SIMs. These don't allow WiFi calling, but as @Anonymous says, WiFi calling is not a lot of use when the FTTC cabinet battery runs flat after about 20 minutes.

Not sure if this cabinet battery issue is commonplace, or only affects our local cabinet, but it does bring into question the overall reliability of the broadband network when it becomes 100% fibre. PSTN exchanges had massive 50V battery banks, that could keep the phones working for a long time (I think several days) in the event of power failure. It seems probable that cabinet batteries may only be designed to keep things going for short glitches in the mains supply, rather than power cuts lasting hours.

Not sure why this is. Talking with a local chap that looks after mobile masts in our area (when we were looking at getting a community funded micro cell), I got the impression that they design masts with backup systems that can keep them running for several days. I believe this was driven, in part, by the ESN requirement. ESN (Emergency Services Network) uses mobile masts to provide comms and data for the fire, police and ambulance services, so has to stay running even if power is down for days.

Re: landlines are being fazed out

Anonymous — Sun, 06 Aug 2023 19:09:27 GMT

@JSHarris

"PSTN exchanges had massive 50V battery banks, that could keep the phones working for a long time (I think several days) in the event of power failure."

Strictly speaking, I think that the 50 volt batteries were spec'd to keep the exchange going for just a few hours, it was the diesel generators that can keep them going for days - though it is nearly 40 years since I worked in a telephone exchange.

"It seems probable that cabinet batteries may only be designed to keep things going for short glitches in the mains supply, rather than power cuts lasting hours."

I have been advised on other forums that the batteries were originally spec'd to run the cabinets for 30 minutes. But with aging, some people have reported them failing after 20 minutes or so. I think that Openreach has a battery maintenance/replacement schedule?

Re: landlines are being fazed out

bmc — Sun, 06 Aug 2023 19:11:34 GMT

@JSHarris

With regard to your mother. Couple of things to check.

Use the Checker to see what's available at your mothers address.

Check out the Fall Alarm - it may or may not work with VOIP.

You would need some sort of power back up.

Brian

Re: landlines are being fazed out

JSHarris — Sun, 06 Aug 2023 20:14:42 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

@JSHarris

"PSTN exchanges had massive 50V battery banks, that could keep the phones working for a long time (I think several days) in the event of power failure."

Strictly speaking, I think that the 50 volt batteries were spec'd to keep the exchange going for just a few hours, it was the diesel generators that can keep them going for days - though it is nearly 40 years since I worked in a telephone exchange.

"It seems probable that cabinet batteries may only be designed to keep things going for short glitches in the mains supply, rather than power cuts lasting hours."

I have been advised on other forums that the batteries were originally spec'd to run the cabinets for 30 minutes. But with aging, some people have reported them failing after 20 minutes or so. I think that Openreach has a battery maintenance/replacement schedule?

That matches our experience. Our cabinet regularly falls over after about 20 minutes without power. The battery in it does get stressed a fair bit, as we get quite a few power cuts in winter, often lasting for anything from a few hours to a couple of days. We usually get compensation for the longer ones, but that doesn't seem to be a strong enough incentive to get the DNO to make the local distribution network more robust.

It does beg the question as to whether half an hour of emergency power is of any practical use in rural areas. That's longer than it would take to get an ambulance or fire engine to us for sure. To be of use during a typical winter power outage the cabinets really need to stay alive for around 8 hours as a minimum.

Re: landlines are being fazed out

JSHarris — Sun, 06 Aug 2023 20:17:37 GMT

@bmc wrote:

@JSHarris

With regard to your mother. Couple of things to check.

Use the Checker to see what's available at your mothers address.

Check out the Fall Alarm - it may or may not work with VOIP.

You would need some sort of power back up.

Brian

Thanks, already done. My plan is to try and get her (my mother in law) to switch to BT. All the research I've done suggests that BT have the best off-the-shelf solutions that will provide her with a phone and connection for her fall alarm. My brother in law may well look after things, as he's closer to his mother than we are.

Re: landlines are being fazed out

Mark280 — Sun, 06 Aug 2023 20:26:02 GMT

@JSHarris wrote:

We don't really use our mobiles much (no point when the signal locally is very poor) so we both have PAYG SIMs. These don't allow WiFi calling, but as @Anonymous says, WiFi calling is not a lot of use when the FTTC cabinet battery runs flat after about 20 minutes.

There are PAYG services readily available which allow WiFi calling.

More often the limitation(s) are, either that of the particular VMNO mobile provider, or limitation of particular phone's specification.

This Wikipedia table is quite a useful reference, re various UK VMNO mobile providers and their individual capabilities...

List of United Kingdom mobile virtual network operators - Wikipedia

FWIW - I currently use a very low cost PAYG tariff from 1p Mobile, who use the EE network (BT Group) - '1p Mobile' provide 4G, 5G service with WiFi calling capability on all tariffs, PAYG/bundles, etc (your phone has to have WiFi calling capability/enabled).

Mobile signal isn't great here - but it's 'tolerable'.