topic Re: FTTP installation - what next ? in My Order

FTTP installation - what next ?

robquick — Thu, 02 Nov 2023 13:50:32 GMT

Hi,

This is a very long story, which I'll try and keep short !

My neignbour recently cancelled his PN broadband and went for a Vodafone FFTP. Open Reach dug a length of his drive up and put ducting in to take the new fibre cable. I spoke to the Open Reach engineers at the time, who said the same could be sorted for my house.

I then contacted PN and upgraded to FTTP, when open Reach turned up 3 weeks later they said that a digging team were needed, before the installation could take place. A survey was completed, all appeared good.

Today I get the below email from Plusnet !

I then ring Plusnet who say they've never seen an email like this before and they don't understand what it means (me neither). After 10 minutes, the member of staff talks to another colleague who confirms that Open Reach and Plusnet will not pay this 5k charge, so if I want to go ahead, I'll need to pay......I then ask to be put through to the cancellation team.

The cancellation team take the call and tell me that its a scam and they will arrnage for a new installation date ! I try explaining that it can't be a scam as the chaps colleague put the call through to him having read the email out to me on the phone !!! The cancellation chap is insistent on me arranging a new install date, I refuse, eventually the chap agrees to ring me back by Thursday, once he gets to the bottom of the email......this is going to go around and around in circles, I can see it now.

You can't make this stuff up........where do i go next ? All I want is FFTP, is that too much to ask ?

Dear Mr Quick,

I want to extend my sincere apologies for not being able to reach you today. Your case has been escalated to our dedicated "Customer Assist Team," and I have been thoroughly investigating the situation that was passed on to us. It has come to our attention that your order has incurred some unexpected construction charges, totaling £5133.00 (excluding fees). I understand the gravity of this matter and the impact it may have on your experience.

In order to proceed and address these charges, it is essential that we receive your acceptance. I kindly request that you reach out to us at your earliest convenience by calling our dedicated line at 0800 028 0282. By doing so, we can make meaningful progress in resolving this issue and ensuring that you are on the correct account.

Please know that this case has been elevated to our expert "Customer Option Team," who are dedicated to providing you with the best possible solutions and guidance. Their primary goal is to ensure that you receive the appropriate assistance and support throughout this process.

Once again, I apologize for any inconvenience and confusion this situation may have caused. We value your business and are committed to rectifying this matter promptly. Your satisfaction is our top priority, and we appreciate your understanding during this time.

Kind regards,

[CSA Removed]

Moderator's note by Mike (Mav): CSA name(s) removed (to an area staff can see) as per Forum rules.

Re: FTTP installation - what next ?

jab1 — Mon, 30 Oct 2023 20:50:18 GMT

@robquick Something doesn't sound right here (from reading your comments about your neighbours experience). I assume he won't have paid £5,000+, unless he is very rich, and that his property is similar to yours.

Does the email you have received look genuine, and does it have at the foot a reference? - it certainly appears so in its tone, but I would have expected it to contain more of an explanation.

Re: FTTP installation - what next ?

Mustrum — Mon, 30 Oct 2023 21:22:27 GMT

@robquick hopefully a staff member will see and comment on your thread - with luck @Gandalf might have a spare minute or two to look at it.

In the mean time, to get a better idea of what is available to your property, can you post the results when you put your phone number ideally - if not your address into the BTW DSL checker. https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/#/ADSL ?

Make sure you obscure the phone number or address when you post on here.

Re: FTTP installation - what next ?

robquick — Wed, 01 Nov 2023 16:52:25 GMT

Hi,

I've attached the screen shot.

I can get upto 900mb, Plusnet have already confirmed that.

Thanks

Re: FTTP installation - what next ?

robquick — Wed, 01 Nov 2023 17:02:55 GMT

Hi,

The email is genuine, I've spoken with plusnet and they've confirmed that, albeit, they don't fully understand what the email is saying. There is a longer distance on the run for my property than my neighbours, and hes confirmed he paid nothing for it.

In truth, it's a total disgrace how Plusnet have handled this. I've got no idea whatsoever where this leaves me !

PN can't tell whats next themselves.

I don't know if the order is cancelled or not.

PN don't know what the email is actually telling me.

And the cancellation team are telling me to re-book an installation appointmnet because the content of the email is not true.

I've been with PN for years, in truth, I think their pricing is great and when the line works, the connection is really stable.......but their customer service is absolutly beyond belief !

Rob

Re: FTTP installation - what next ?

bmc — Wed, 01 Nov 2023 17:08:14 GMT

@robquick

Usually if a problem is expected the narrative below the results window will say something. Yours doesn't.

Brian

Re: FTTP installation - what next ?

jab1 — Wed, 01 Nov 2023 17:13:44 GMT

@bmc It is OH feed - no digging, then to my mind, although I note 'joint user pole' - possible electricity/telecoms?

Re: FTTP installation - what next ?

MisterW — Wed, 01 Nov 2023 17:15:24 GMT

And the cancellation team are telling me to re-book an installation appointmnet because the content of the email is not true.

Something doesnt make sense about the need for ducting ?

The availability checker says 'Single Dwelling Unit Residential OH Feed joint user pole' , which means that the feed is overhead!! so why any ducting ?

for info, the 'joint user pole' just means the pole is owned by the power company and Openreach has an agreement to use it.

NB @jab1 posted while I was typing

Re: FTTP installation - what next ?

MatthewWheeler — Wed, 01 Nov 2023 17:18:15 GMT

Hi @robquick

I'm really sorry to hear that this has happened.

Looking at Openreach's notes they've advised that 60 metres of underground ducts and cabling need installing as you've requested to not have the cables come from the overhead pole?

Let us know if this isn't the case

Re: FTTP installation - what next ?

robquick — Wed, 01 Nov 2023 17:33:36 GMT

Hi Matthew,

yes, this does involve 60m of digging. To clarify, the run that OR were planning to use would go directly above 60m worth of trees that would have to be cut back. My neigbour owns the shared access drive and trees, and is not willing for the trees to be cut back. He has kindly agreed for his drive to be dug up, in the same way that his drive was dug up for his recent install. When OR surveyed for my install, they were comfortable that this wouldn't be an issue.

I have copper cable now, and have no problem with this. But the new FFTP cable route is completly different.

To be clear, the cable would run directly above his trees for the whole 60m length and the neigbour is not happy having them cut back. Finally, at this point PN haven't even confirmed what the email actually means......are PN and OR suggesting I pay 5k plus for the install ?

Thanks

Re: FTTP installation - what next ?

RealAleMadrid — Wed, 01 Nov 2023 20:15:55 GMT

@robquick You never mentioned the 60 metres of digging before, that is the reason for the email you received. Openreach wanted to supply an overhead fibre feed which would have no charge, but you have refused that because of the tree problem.

So because the underground fibre feed is not the preferred Openreach solution they have applied an excess construction charge to cover the additional work.

So now you know what the email means, OR want the extra payment, Plusnet will not pay it, so it's up to you.

Re: FTTP installation - what next ?

robquick — Wed, 01 Nov 2023 21:40:11 GMT

Hi RealAleMadrid,

You've clearly not read my emails fully.

I did mention digging in my original email. I didn't refuse anything, my neighbour refused to have his treees reduced in height to have the cable installed (not unreasonable), Open Reach dug my neighbours drive up only 3 weeks ago for his installation, which wasn't their preferred solution either......but they still did it !

Thanks for the reply, but it's inaccurate and doesn't relate to the circumstances I'm faced with.

Re: FTTP installation - what next ?

Mustrum — Wed, 01 Nov 2023 22:17:34 GMT

@robquick like it or not @RealAleMadrid explanation is the situation you are left with.

Who knows what the thinking was for than yours, neighbours install, it sounds like it was simpler and less expensive. Might even have been as simple as something the chap on the day could get done quite easily so did it rather than raise paperwork for a dig team. It might also not have been dud too deep and traffic will soon cause damage and they will be without service - who knows the detail.

Bottom line is that someone is going to have to pay £5k for dig work, so if you want it done it is up to you.

You could perhaps arrange your own duct to be installed - include a rope to pull the fibre through, that may well be cheaper to do.

Re: FTTP installation - what next ?

greygit1 — Wed, 01 Nov 2023 22:58:41 GMT

"Something doesnt make sense about the need for ducting ?

The availability checker says 'Single Dwelling Unit Residential OH Feed joint user pole' , which means that the feed is overhead!! so why any ducting ?"

Perhaps there is ducting under an intervening structure before the wires arrive at and go up the pole? Where the wires/cabling can't be overhead.

(That's roughly how my connectivity arrives here. I can see the wires on poles, I can see where the wires go underground, I can see the wires where they re-emerge to go up another pole - but which isn't shared with the power company.)

Re: FTTP installation - what next ?

jab1 — Thu, 02 Nov 2023 07:19:52 GMT

My interpretation of this, for what it is worth, is that the neighbours 'dig' work was just up his drive, i.e. the pole is within metres of his property, whereas @robquick is some distance away and this requires a longer trench. Apologies if I have it wrong.

Re: FTTP installation - what next ?

RealAleMadrid — Thu, 02 Nov 2023 10:48:58 GMT

@robquick It seems you do not accept my take on your situation, that's your choice but I think that you will find it is correct.

I realise you did not refuse the overhead feed yourself but your neighbour has objected to that option as the trees would need to be cut back. As they are on the neighbour's land that is a reasonable action. Now Openreach have to provide an underground ducted route which is not the proposed delivery method so substantial excess construction charges are applied.

You did mention that the neighbour had ducting put in the drive, roughly what length was that? You didn't say you would need a 60 metre length! Digging and ducting that sort of length is costly. Have look a this extract from an OR document, there is a link to pricing but it takes a bit of digging ( no pun intended) to find the correct section.

The final paragraph covers your situation.

5.4 GEA-FTTP L2C Excess Construction Charges (ECC)
These charges are raised where additional infrastructure is required to provide new or extended service
at an end customer’s site, or at another requested location where we would otherwise not choose to
extend our network based on normal commercial criteria.

When it is identified that an installation would require additional work and will need ECCs, then
Openreach will inform the CP and request confirmation of acceptance of the ECCs (and this allows the
CP to discuss / agree with the end customer if required) before the KCI2 order confirmation and before
any installation work proceeds.

The scope of chargeable work includes both external and internal work leading to the ONT and is set
out in the Openreach Price List at:
https://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/products/pricing/loadPricing.do

If no previous GEA installation exemption has been applied to an end customer premises, then the first
£1000 of cost is exempt only for this first service installed. Subsequent service installation requiring
additional fibre cable and / or civils work to provide a clear path would be subject to full ECCs.

If the end customer refuses a proposed delivery method designed to reduce or remove the need for
ECCs and insists on a more expensive method of delivery, then the exemption would not apply (e.g.
customer refuses overhead delivery, ‘road tape’ or other solution and requests a fully ducted
underground delivery).

The email you received from Plusnet is appalling, loads of apologies and waffle about how their special teams are looking after the problem. Then customer service said they had never seen anything like it and it's a scam... unbelievable.🙄

It could have been a one liner.... "Hard luck you need to pay £5K+ to get FTTP"