topic Re: Unable to port landline number after signing up to Full Fibre in My Order

Unable to port landline number after signing up to Full Fibre

Michael_0 — Fri, 12 May 2023 14:45:11 GMT

I upgraded my DSL internet and landline with Plusnet to full fibre on 10th May 2023. Having read many of the forum posts in a similar vein I thought it would then (the day after the upgrade) be possible to transfer my number to a VOIP provider. This was not the case with the reason given by Plusnet for the rejection as 'number(s) ** is/are not active on their network'.

There seems to be a great deal said about this on the forum so I thought that, for the benefit of anyone thinking about doing the same, I would state clearly that as of 12th May 2023 your landline number becomes unavailable to you as soon as the landline is replaced by the fibre connection.

Re: Unable to port landline number after signing up to Full Fibre

MisterW — Fri, 12 May 2023 15:11:24 GMT

This was not the case with the reason given by Plusnet for the rejection as 'number(s) ** is/are not active on their network'.

@Michael_0 the port should not be rejected for thart reason now!. Ofcom introduced a 'right to port' for up to 30 days AFTER the line had been ceased in April this year. http://www.offta.org.uk/latest-news/october-2022

I would start by raising a complaint.

Meanwhile I'm going to escalate this thread to get some understanding of whats gone wrong here

edit: additional info , its now in Ofcom's General conditions https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0017/232064/annex-3-revised-general-conditions-unofficial-consolidated-version-3-april-2023.pdf

Condition C7.6

Re: Unable to port landline number after signing up to Full Fibre

jgb — Fri, 12 May 2023 15:02:02 GMT

As you say there are other posts on these forums where landline numbers have seemingly been successfully transferred to VOIP providers after broadband has been transferred to full fibre.

I was under the impression that OFCOM rules now require that landline numbers are kept available for porting for 30 days after they are no longer in use by the losing service. One post even suggested the methodology that was employed to ensure this whereby Plusnet now retain the number for the full thirty days before returning it to the rangeholder (unless ported out withi that time).

Therefore there now seems to be some doubt regarding exactly what is going on and whether or not Plusnet are the issue here or there is some other issue at play.

We need Plusnet to explain what is going on and whether there is specific action that the customer needs to take to avail themselves of the porting opportunity for their landline number. Plusnet have been silent on these forums regarding this as far as I can see. Will they now enlighten us?

EDIT: Hopefully @MisterW can get to the bottom of this.

Re: Unable to port landline number after signing up to Full Fibre

dvorak — Fri, 12 May 2023 17:18:22 GMT

Moderators Note

This topic has been moved from Full Fibre to My Order

Re: Unable to port landline number after signing up to Full Fibre

Michael_0 — Fri, 12 May 2023 18:27:31 GMT

Thanks for the input so far. Your comments are largely in line with what I hoped would happen - but not joy. I don't yet know how to raise a complaint so I'll try that next.

Re: Unable to port landline number after signing up to Full Fibre

RealAleMadrid — Fri, 12 May 2023 18:58:03 GMT

@jgb I have some opinions on this which I have expressed in some previous posts.

1. I believe Plusnet have done nothing to implement the required 30 day number retention rule. Plusnet have been completely silent on this subject.

2. A few customers have managed to port their numbers to Voip suppliers when upgrading to FTTP.

3. I think they have been lucky because of the timing of the orders and the delays in the various stages of the culmination of the order process, such as the phone line still being active for a short time after the FTTP order has completed, in which case a port to voip will succeed.

4. My overall conclusion is that Plusnet's masters (i.e.BT) do not want Plusnet ports to Voip to happen because it has long been stated by Plusnet that you should move to BT or EE if you want to keep your landline number.

Whether this unacceptable situation will change in the future when the PSTN phone system is discontinued is still unclear.☹️

Re: Unable to port landline number after signing up to Full Fibre

RealAleMadrid — Fri, 12 May 2023 19:01:36 GMT

@Michael_0 Use the complaints code of practice link at the bottom of the page. Point out that is an OFCOM requirement that numbers are to be available to port to a Voip service.

Re: Unable to port landline number after signing up to Full Fibre

Michael_0 — Fri, 12 May 2023 19:31:21 GMT

@RealAleMadrid That makes lot of sense. The number of customers reporting a successful port is tiny. Also, thanks for the pointer to the Complaints link - I'll give it a try.

Edit: I have submitted a complaint and I'll report back if I hear anything.

Re: Unable to port landline number after signing up to Full Fibre

adamwalker — Sat, 13 May 2023 07:49:07 GMT

Hi @Michael_0 I've sent you a PM, please get back to me with your username when you can and I'll pick this up with you.

Re: Unable to port landline number after signing up to Full Fibre

Michael_0 — Sat, 13 May 2023 09:51:17 GMT

PM duly sent. Thanks

Re: Unable to port landline number after signing up to Full Fibre

jgb — Sat, 13 May 2023 10:56:37 GMT

Perhaps @adamwalker can tell us what Plusnet's procedures are for land line porting.

Re: Unable to port landline number after signing up to Full Fibre

MisterW — Sat, 13 May 2023 14:46:49 GMT

@jgb landline porting is and always has been GPL ( Gaining provider led ) so what PN's procedures are is irrelevent to the user. They just request the port from the new supplier and is is they that request the port via the registered porting contact ( whatever that is? )

Re: Unable to port landline number after signing up to Full Fibre

jgb — Sat, 13 May 2023 16:05:34 GMT

Yes @MisterW that is the case if you move away from Plusnet to another provider who will provide a phone and broadband service. What I was enquiring about is Plusnet's procedure to ensure that a customer moving on to their full fibre product is then able to port their previously existing land line number to a VOIP provider as Plusnet do not provide any telephone options with full fibre. A problem with that issue, despite the OFCOM requirement that numbers must be available for porting for 31 days after a service stops, is where I believe this thread started. Thus Plusnet must have some role in procedures to ensure that such porting is possible.

Re: Unable to port landline number after signing up to Full Fibre

MisterW — Sat, 13 May 2023 16:22:27 GMT

@jgb porting numbers to voip works on the same GPL basis. The gaining provider requests the port by establishing the CUPID (Communications Provider Identity Code) of the losing provider and requests the number port using that.

AIUI the whole of the BT group (i.e BT retail, EE & PN) operate under one CUPID, therefore it is whoever is the porting contact ( probably BT) for that CUPID that processes the port. So Im not sure where, if at all PN actually get involved.

Some light bedtime reading here http://www.offta.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0021/212646/Introduction-to-Fixed-Line-Porting-in-the-UK.pdf if you're interested

Re: Unable to port landline number after signing up to Full Fibre

Michael_0 — Sat, 13 May 2023 16:42:06 GMT

Thanks, all, for the input so far. Adam Walker made contact and hopes to be able to provide me with more details once he has discussed my issue with colleagues this week. I'll report back once I know more.

Re: Unable to port landline number after signing up to Full Fibre

FlossyThePig — Sat, 13 May 2023 17:16:26 GMT

I may be missing something but my interpretation of all the official documents discussing number porting relate to the process when moving to a different ISP. Not upgrading your current service, which means losing your your landline number without a process to port it to a VOIP provider.

Re: Unable to port landline number after signing up to Full Fibre

jgb — Sun, 14 May 2023 09:52:54 GMT

@MisterW

As far as I understand it, if a Plusnet customer decides to change from ADSL / VDSL with Plusnet to full fibre with Plusnet they lose their landline as Plusnet do not offer the option of full fibre with phone. Therefore, if the OFCOM requirement that numbers should be available to be ported for up to 31 days is applicable to such changes, Plusnet (whether via BT or EE or otherwise) must somehow "retain" that phone number so that the customer can move it to a VOIP provider if they so wish.

If the VOIP provider requests that number it must be available if they are to get it. The technical method of requesting it is immaterial if Plusnet (or BT if that is their internal group process) are not "retaining" it in such a way that it is available for the VOIP provider to gain it. That is the problem that appears to apply here according to the OP.

I am trying to establish if there is something the customer must do when dealing with Plusnet when requesting the upgrade to full fibre so that the number can be available to be ported to a VOIP provider after the upgrarde to full fibre has been actioned. Maybe @FlossyThePig is correct in that the OFCOM requirement regarding the availability of the number is not applicable to upgrades with the same provider. If so is that a deliberate omission in the OFCOM requirement ort an inadvertent omission?

Hopefully we will understand better once @adamwalker has made his enquiries and the OP @Michael_0 updates this thread.

Re: Unable to port landline number after signing up to Full Fibre

MisterW — Sun, 14 May 2023 11:09:28 GMT

Therefore, if the OFCOM requirement that numbers should be available to be ported for up to 31 days is applicable to such changes, Plusnet (whether via BT or EE or otherwise) must somehow "retain" that phone number so that the customer can move it to a VOIP provider if they so wish.

@jgb AIUI under the 'old' system, when the landline is 'ceased' , the losing provider MUST return the number to the rangeholder within 2 weeks, and was usually done almost immediately. Once back with the rangeholder, the number was quarantined for a minimum 2 weeks and it was no longer possible to port to a voip provider. The 'new' system is the the losing provider MUST NOT return the number to the rangeholder for at least 31 days, after that , once returned , the rangeholder need not quarantine since any quarantine period has already lapsed. Until the number has been returned to the RH , it SHOULD still be available for porting.

AFAIK the customer, in the case of upgrading to full fibre, does not need to do anything to request the number remains available, that is the default.

It seems, in the case of the OP, that someone in the porting system was not aware that inactive ( but not returned to RH ) numbers can still be ported.

Maybe @FlossyThePig is correct in that the OFCOM requirement regarding the availability of the number is not applicable to upgrades with the same provider.

Whether it is part of an upgrade or not is irrelevant, it is purely associated with the ceasing of a landline and its subsequent return to RH.

Re: Unable to port landline number after signing up to Full Fibre

Michael_0 — Sun, 14 May 2023 19:23:43 GMT

Some excellent follow-up input from @FlossyThePig, @jgb and @MisterW. Thank you all and it sounds like there is still hope that my number is not yet beyond reach. I really hope so and will post with the outcome.

Re: Unable to port landline number after signing up to Full Fibre

Michael_0 — Fri, 19 May 2023 08:24:09 GMT

Just a brief update. This matter is no further forward. I tried specifying Openreach as the holder of my number but this was rejected with the same reason as originally when I specified Plusnet. Maybe there is some special way to specify this pot of numbers in limbo so I have asked @adamwalker for any help or guidance with this. I know OFCOM state that providers must facilitate the porting of numbers but the processes just don't seem to be there to support it. I really hope to be proven wrong.