topic Re: House move problems in My Order

House move problems

Tdk-guru — Thu, 17 Nov 2022 18:18:17 GMT

Posting this for my daughter.

She has been a customer of Plusnet for 4 years. In early November, she finally got an exchange date for moving house, so week before, she had contacted Plusnet to arrange transfer. The process seemed quite simple, with being told that she would be 10 working days for transfer to take place. A new Hub 2 router was sent out, and all seemed OK, with connection day on 16th Nov.

End of 16th Nov, she received a text message saying all set up and now working. However, the Router was still flashing orange. I went up to check connection, and all seemed OK.

Call into customer services, and guy on phone said that he had found a problem with the account, and transferred us to accounts. 20 minutes waiting before answer, and account was checked. Lady on the phone said that the transfer was ceased on 8th November, by unknown person. This was strange, as she had informed Plusnet of move in date as 4th Nov.

Lady in accounts could not explain why the transfer was cancelled, or why my daughter had received a text to say transfer had gone ahead. Also, lady in accounts stated that the account would still be billed as if transfer had gone ahead, but they would waive the cancellation charge - Great!!

Bad news, was that a new Stop/Start order would need to be raised, which would take 14 days as a minimum, but could be 28 days.

Daughter works from home, so will be without Broadband for upto 6 weeks.

Great service Plusnet - NOT

Re: House move problems

Townman — Thu, 17 Nov 2022 22:32:57 GMT

That advice seems odd. If this is a stopped line, it should be possible to restart the phone line in 48 hours and the internet in circa 5 working days.

Re: House move problems

Tdk-guru — Fri, 18 Nov 2022 07:43:52 GMT

Thanks for your reply Townman.

I agree. I had tried to query the accounts lady on this, saying that the previous occupants had phone and internet up until they moved out, so changeover should have been exchange work only, however she claimed that it wasn't that simple as that. She claimed that the only two options available were to do a Stop/Start or initiate a new line, but both would take the same amount of time (10-16 working days). She cited the Openreach strikes last month as causing backlogs.

I understand that mistakes can happen, but I find it strange that the order was ceased 4 days after she had moved into the house, and that they could not tell us who had stopped the order. Plus, daughters order tracking was showing no such cancellation, and even got an text on 16th to say that all is now working. The lady in accounts could not explain this, but just kept apologising.

Re: House move problems

Townman — Fri, 18 Nov 2022 10:39:47 GMT

The processes can be complex and protracted when taking over someone else's WORKING line. The complications arise from a combination of Ofcom regulations and BT Openreach ordering rules (and failures).

Ofcom anti-slamming rules enforce a 10-working day delay when one ISP seeks to take over a line from another ISP (for the same user) - there can only be one oder on a line at one time
BT Openreach rules PROHIBIT one ISP PLACING orders to take over a line for which the owing ISP has raised a CEASE ORDER (as would happen with the old occupant in a house move)

In this situation BOTH of these rules could have been "activated" thereby "bouncing" Plusnet's order.

If the order was placed BEFORE the previous subscriber had told their existing subscriber that they were leaving, the attempt by Plusnet to take over the line would fail due to the anti-slamming process - existing user rejects the line take over
If the order was place AFTER the previous subscriber told their supplier they were terminating, Plusnet's order would then fail due to the blocking cease order

If Plusnet replaced an order on the cease date, that too could fail for a multitude of the "usual" issues. This should be a restart of a stopped line, which should be capable of being done as I described above. However, if the previous subscriber was with a LLU provider (Sky or Talk Talk) then the order will require physical work in the exchange ... and those engineering resources are in short supply ... made worse by militant union action.

There are though new bear traps around. As the country prepares to switch off the PSTN phone services and full fibre is being deployed, some geographies are on "Stop Sell" for copper borne services. Recently I was associated with a new order for a pub - FTTC to the bar was fine, but if they wanted the service to go onto an existing line in the flat above, no dice, that was on stop sell.

Here is my general guidance - inspection of the tickets might be informative.

Delayed orders

There are a multitude of reasons why order processing might be reported as delayed and usually it is nothing to be too concerned about, but there are exceptions. The following are some of the common causes of orders being delayed...

The user told their existing supplier that they are moving and the consequential action by their existing supplier will prevent any new ISP placing orders to take over the service - this needs affirmative action with the existing supplier
The existing circuit to the property cannot be identified in BT Openreach's systems due to errors in their data - this can give rise to the need for special processes (ORDI and Bridge cases) with BTOR to correct THEIR data
Something was not quite right with the order raised by Plusnet - these are usually sorted quickly
BT Openreach do not have engineering resources available in the usual timeframe

To see what is happening in detail, check the ticket history on your account - log into the portal in another tab, return here and click the PN TICKET link below. Look at the details of the tickets; if there appears to be no recent activity, contact support.

Re: House move problems

Tdk-guru — Fri, 18 Nov 2022 11:08:31 GMT

Thanks Townman for your explanation.

This is starting to make some sense now. Previous ISP was Sky. From other utility issues she has encountered, it appears the old owner took a couple of days to notify gas and electric company of house move, so this could explain the Plusnet cancelled order. It's just a shame that Plusnet could not inform customers waiting the obligatory 10 days if something goes wrong.

Now looks like daughter will have to continue commuting 120 miles each day for another 2-3 weeks, when she should be working from home.

Re: House move problems

Townman — Fri, 18 Nov 2022 11:23:54 GMT

Are you able to access her account and inspect the tickets?

If you can get hold of sales / support, you could try asking why it is taking 10+ days on a STOPPED line? That would be normal for a WORKING LINE TAKEOVER.

Normally a STOPPED line can be reactivated in 48 hours if no engineering work is required ... but "recovering" a line from LLU does need engineering work and therefore might be longer.

Was the date she had a PROVIOSIONAL or a COMMITTED date? If committed, then she is entitled to delayed installation compensation.

Re: House move problems

Tdk-guru — Fri, 18 Nov 2022 11:40:45 GMT

I will be up there later today doing some jobs, so should be able to check the tickets.

Re: House move problems

Tdk-guru — Fri, 18 Nov 2022 12:50:08 GMT

Hi Townman

She has now given me access to her account.

Firstly, her account is still in her old address (moved out 4th Nov)

The account is showing an error message - An Error has occurred. You can't change your products for the moment, you already have a product change in progress.

She notified them of the house move on 2nd November, with new Hub being sent out (arrived 4th Nov). On move out of old house, Internet was already off when she got up on 4th, so disconnect worked OK.

Following her call on 2nd Nov, her ticket showed as below:

Dean Madden - Sales L Team_A

3:36pm, Wednesday 2 Nov 2022

Dear Miss xxxxx,

Thanks for letting us know you are moving home. We've now started the processing of placing your orders and we'll keep you updated via text message. You do not need to contact us any further unless any of the details around your house move change.

Have you started the House Move Tool? Yes

Is the mobile number on the account correct and the customer aware they will receive updates via SMS? Yes

Customer required move date: 16/11/2022

Line status at new property: Working Line

More than 1 line at the property? No

If more than 1 line, enter the phone number for takeover:

Preferred Appointment Slot (If Required): N/A

Hazards & Warnings (if applicable) 100 char. limit:

Engineer notes (if applicable) 250 char. limit:

Broadband Product Required: FIBRE

Has the customer requested for the cease and re-provide to happen on the same day? No

Please note your old line will be ceased before your new line is activated. Occasionally, downtime can occur if a problem is detected with the new line activation.

Broadband Package/Price: Unlimited Fibre

At around 5pm on 16th Nov, she received a text to say the order had been completed and her service was fully operational.

She has spoken to Accounts again, further to your earlier comment, only to be told that the information is incorrect, and she needs to wait a minimum of 10 working days plus engineering time (no estimate given), as a new line install needs to take place. Interestingly, there are no additional tickets on her account about order being ceased on 8th Nov, or her NEW order accounts instigated yesterday. This means she has no way of tracking this.

Any further assistance would be gratefully received.

Re: House move problems

Townman — Fri, 18 Nov 2022 13:00:58 GMT

The 8th is more than 7 days ago, so to see any tickets for them you need to change the drop-down to "closed in the last 30 days".

Needs a new line - that sounds odd - I would be asking "Why?".

I would suspect that BTOR records are messed up and it has not been possible to identify a circuit to the property. Looking here - https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/#/ADSL/AddressHome - should show if there is an identifiable line to the property. Check that any address details there, match those on the order.

Something has gone squiffy here. This is neither a STOPPED line or a WORKING line take over, but an order for a new line. Someone needs to clarify why. An existing line, already connected to the BT Openreach equipment in the exchange (that is not a LLU) should not incur a new line charge.

Just to be clear, was the previous occupant with Virgin Media?

Re: House move problems

Tdk-guru — Fri, 18 Nov 2022 13:26:37 GMT

All the tickets are from 2nd November, when she confirmed order for house move. The tickets confirm the connection date at new premises on 16th Nov. Between 3rd Nov to 17th Nov, there were no updates. The only update she received was by text around 5pm on 16th stating the order was complete and her new service was operational.

With respect to the Broadband checker - The address is correct, with the following information:

Our records show the following FTTP network service information for these premises:-Single Dwelling Unit Residential UG premises served by 2.5 Inch plastic duct 56.

FTTP is available and a new ONT may be ordered.

The exchange is not in a current fibre priority programme

WLR is currently available at the exchange

SOADSL is restricted at the exchange

Re: House move problems

Tdk-guru — Fri, 18 Nov 2022 13:29:21 GMT

Forgot to add. The previous house occupant was with SKY

Re: House move problems

Townman — Fri, 18 Nov 2022 13:36:51 GMT

Oh hang on here...

Did that service checker mention FTTC?

Do any of the PN order tickets mention FTTC / ADSL order?

Was the Sky service FTTC or FTTP?

My guess here would be that ...

The Sky service was FTTC
Plusnet raised a working line take over with an expected switch date
For some reason the line got stopped (by Sky?)
The property is in a STOP SELL area for xDSL services
Plusnet has therefore had to raise new orders for a FTTP service (no telephone) ... which will require a NEW FIBRE LINE install

In which case two weeks is fairly brisk - many places are back to the GPO era level of service - 3 months for a new line installation.

Re: House move problems

MisterW — Fri, 18 Nov 2022 13:41:47 GMT

The property is in a STOP SELL area for xDSL services

Shouldn't be, the exchange is not in a fibre priority area

Re: House move problems

Townman — Fri, 18 Nov 2022 13:46:08 GMT

@MisterW

Neither is the location of my recent experience, where FTTC is available to the pub (downstairs) but only FTTP is available to the pub's flat (upstairs).

The former was an active line, the latter is a stopped line and (apparently) prohibited from being restarted.

Re: House move problems

Tdk-guru — Fri, 18 Nov 2022 13:55:23 GMT

In response to earlier questions:

FTTC shown on Broadband checker.

Previous occupant was with SKY and was FTTC

Plusnet order was showing FTTC

The accounts lady yesterday confirmed only 5 out of 10 pairs were being used from DP, so was no issue with availability. With respect to the cab, I have no idea on availability. Also, I am not aware of FTTP in this area.

Re: House move problems

MisterW — Fri, 18 Nov 2022 13:59:09 GMT

@Townman I understood that wlr stop sell only currently applied to a couple 9f areas if not fibre priority. Here's Openreachs definition https://www.openreach.co.uk/cpportal/products/the-all-ip-programme/stopsell-updates

According to that, come Sept 2023 it's going to be fun...

Re: House move problems

Tdk-guru — Fri, 18 Nov 2022 14:03:30 GMT

I have just done a little bit of digging.

I have just gone onto Plusnet and tested daughters new address for a new service.

When postcode put in, it said Full Fibre 74, 145 and 500 was available at this address. I suspect Townman may be correct.

Question is, if correct, why wasn't this flagged on order date?

Re: House move problems

Townman — Fri, 18 Nov 2022 14:20:44 GMT

This is a very dynamic space. I do not KNOW but from my limited experience and some of the comments from staff I suspect that where FTTP is available less than clear conditions are arising.

Where an existing WORKING line is being taken over like for like can be supplied. I would guess that is the order Plusnet placed initially.

I would suspect that Sky’s service cease order blocked Plusnet’s order.

Plusnet re raised the orders after the line was stopped … only to have BTOR refuse the order because FTTP has become available and therefore the stopped line cannot be restarted.

This issue probably did not become apparent until the working line transitioned to a stopped line. Add to that the effort required to recover the LLU circuit, it is not a surprise that this has been bounced to a new FTTP install.

Would be helpful to have a staff member confirm the theory!!

Re: House move problems

Tdk-guru — Fri, 18 Nov 2022 16:27:41 GMT

Thanks to Townman and MisterW for their assistance in trying to explain these issues we have encountered.

It would be good to hear if these theories are correct, as it may help others, who may fall into the same trap.

Re: House move problems

TheMightyAJ — Wed, 23 Nov 2022 15:28:15 GMT

Hey @Tdk-guru,

I'm sorry to hear that your daughter ran into this issue. I've tried having a look for the account today however I'm afraid that I haven't been able to find it. If you'd like to send us a Private Message with her details, I'd be happy to have a look over the case and see what we can find