topic Re: Just saw this, maybe the momentum for IPv6 will improve in IPv6 Trial

Just saw this, maybe the momentum for IPv6 will improve

w23 — Fri, 10 Apr 2015 16:58:40 GMT

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/6920-after-staff-trials-sky-to-trial-ipv6-with-customers.html

Re: Just saw this, maybe the momentum for IPv6 will improve

jelv — Fri, 10 Apr 2015 18:10:17 GMT

So Plusnet will have missed the opportunity to be ahead of the game. The length of time our trial has been running with no sign of it moving forward and the failure to get it working correctly on the bngs is ridiculous!

Re: Just saw this, maybe the momentum for IPv6 will improve

w23 — Fri, 10 Apr 2015 18:14:26 GMT

True, strange that the 'new' kit can't manage current technology (though the older kit can). We all know IPv6 is supposed to be the future but the future starts now (give or take 30ms).

Re: Just saw this, maybe the momentum for IPv6 will improve

chrcoluk — Fri, 10 Apr 2015 22:45:52 GMT

I wonder if BT as a company held back because they came across some new ipv4 blocks on the market?
When I was beta testing the hh5 which now seems ages ago back in 2013, I asked their dev team about the ipv6 in the interface and was told BT would rollout ipv6 by the end of the next year which was 2014. It never happened.

Re: Just saw this, maybe the momentum for IPv6 will improve

MrToast — Sat, 11 Apr 2015 13:18:29 GMT

I can think of any number of reasons for 'holding back' on IPv6 rollout.
I would have thought that an ISP would want to minimise the period for which they are running 'dual-stack'. There will be more faults and more queries with 2 networks and more to maintain. There will be some skill and judgement in determining the optimum point to move.
If an ISP with the profile of Sky makes a move that must stimulate the others not to be left behind.

Re: Just saw this, maybe the momentum for IPv6 will improve

chrcoluk — Sat, 11 Apr 2015 14:52:32 GMT

I agree its inevitable support initially calls will increase and it be harder for tech support to deal with it, but the advantage of doing it earlier than needed is you get that out of the way and there is less urgency.
I expect sky have much more customers on their own hardware than other isp's due to the auth lockin so it will be easier for them to do a rollout.

Re: Just saw this, maybe the momentum for IPv6 will improve

AndyH — Sat, 11 Apr 2015 15:39:46 GMT

Quote from: jelv
So Plusnet will have missed the opportunity to be ahead of the game. The length of time our trial has been running with no sign of it moving forward and the failure to get it working correctly on the bngs is ridiculous!

I don't think the issue with IPv6 has anything to do with the actual BNGs themselves, but it's the RADIUS servers. There is a post somewhere (I think from Paul) acknowledging the problem, but I guess it's a low priority to fix with resources being used elsewhere.
As for being ahead of the game, I think it comes down to ISPs making that call before they run out of IPv4 addresses. There is certainly no additional selling point for a major ISP to support IPv6.

Re: Just saw this, maybe the momentum for IPv6 will improve

w23 — Sat, 11 Apr 2015 17:26:12 GMT

Does that suggest that Sky expect to be running out of IPv4 addresses and have decided to work on IPv6 before its too late?

Re: Just saw this, maybe the momentum for IPv6 will improve

MrToast — Sun, 12 Apr 2015 00:55:50 GMT

Quote from: w23
Does that suggest that Sky expect to be running out of IPv4 addresses,

Not necessarily.
I could say that everyone has run out of addresses. We have forgotten that we are all using PAT/NAT on our home routers because we can't have a globally routable IPv4 address per device.
It does mean they think that there is a business advantage. It could be that they think NAT will become an issue for multi-player games or some other application in the near future. Or it could simply be that they can have a marketing campaign to distinguish their product.
Who knows what has triggered Sky. Perhaps they just want to be first and can't risk BT beating them

Re: Just saw this, maybe the momentum for IPv6 will improve

chrcoluk — Sun, 12 Apr 2015 01:27:03 GMT

or it could just be someone at sky knows it for the good of the internet and they have persuaded their boss to allow the rollout.

Re: Just saw this, maybe the momentum for IPv6 will improve

MrToast — Sun, 12 Apr 2015 04:06:31 GMT

For Sky to be persuaded to do anything they will be convinced of a solid business reason. That is the kind of company they are. They may be pioneers in some respects, but in being that they know what their focus is and are quite deliberate about it.
For me that is the really interesting thing about the Sky development.
IPv6 has been on the horizon for so long it seems. The reality is that take up is exponential. When the base is small that can be deceptive and people can miss it. But take a look at the <a href="http://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html">Google IPv6 Stats</a> and see how long IPv6 penetration takes to double and then how many more times it needs to double to become significant. Once were are there it may soon be a requirement for some new application (global addressing for every device).
Once IPv6 is at that point it will become the primary service for many. Then who will care about updating their IPv4 network or address plans.
Basically, if you haven't done the engineering and are not ready to launch IPv6 now you may not survive.

Re: Just saw this, maybe the momentum for IPv6 will improve

matthews — Sun, 12 Apr 2015 10:00:07 GMT

Quote from: MrToast
It does mean they think that there is a business advantage. It could be that they think NAT will become an issue for multi-player games or some other application in the near future.

If I recall correctly XBOX One already games solely over IPv6, but uses a workaround (Teredo) to route IPv6 packets over IPv4. Having native IP addresses would probably reduce a lot of support issues called by different NAT configurations

Re: Just saw this, maybe the momentum for IPv6 will improve

chrcoluk — Sun, 12 Apr 2015 14:58:50 GMT

Quote from: MrToast
For Sky to be persuaded to do anything they will be convinced of a solid business reason. That is the kind of company they are. They may be pioneers in some respects, but in being that they know what their focus is and are quite deliberate about it.
For me that is the really interesting thing about the Sky development.
IPv6 has been on the horizon for so long it seems. The reality is that take up is exponential. When the base is small that can be deceptive and people can miss it. But take a look at the <a href="http://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html">Google IPv6 Stats</a> and see how long IPv6 penetration takes to double and then how many more times it needs to double to become significant. Once were are there it may soon be a requirement for some new application (global addressing for every device).
Once IPv6 is at that point it will become the primary service for many. Then who will care about updating their IPv4 network or address plans.
Basically, if you haven't done the engineering and are not ready to launch IPv6 now you may not survive.

not necessarily it can be enough simply to persuade any costs are within a reasonable amount and it wont degrade the service.
ipv6 rollout is inevitable, some people have their head stuck in the sands thinking its optional and can be avoided, but it has to happen at some point, so the costs are there regardless, its then juist a choice of when to take on those costs.
you also thinking about this the wrong way, the availability has to become before a killer app, its not the other way round.

Re: Just saw this, maybe the momentum for IPv6 will improve

BrianC — Mon, 13 Apr 2015 13:54:58 GMT

Quote from: jelv
So Plusnet will have missed the opportunity to be ahead of the game.

ISTM this announcement is that Sky will start their first customer *trial* of IPv6 - and therefore it just brings them up to the same level as Plusnet were, oh, three years ago.
It would be different though if their trial is open to everyone who wants it, and not limited in numbers.

Re: Just saw this, maybe the momentum for IPv6 will improve

jelv — Mon, 13 Apr 2015 14:59:35 GMT

Do you honestly think that if they have been trialling it with staff for a while and are moving it to user trials it will be that long before they roll it out? I can't see it taking them 3 years!

Re: Just saw this, maybe the momentum for IPv6 will improve

matthews — Mon, 13 Apr 2015 18:26:56 GMT

Sky have the advantage that they "control" the hardware. You're not allowed non-Sky routers on their broadband package so they know who has what, what's compatible etc. This gives them a bit of an advantage over trialling it. Obviously what they don't control is the pieces beyond the router (such as the old Windows XP computer that will probably fall over if something tries to give it an IPv6 address!). In all fairness, I personally don't expect Sky to be moving quickly with this. They've got over 4 million customers, and while some will have come through from Be/O2, the vast majority of them are going to think that the internet is the blue e on the desktop and think you're rude if you start saying "IP"!
I could see Sky wanting to move to IPv6 so that your Sky box is accessible remotely actually. Would save a lot of polling resources if they could just push stuff to it with it having its own IP address. Bring on the Internet of Things (TM).

Re: Just saw this, maybe the momentum for IPv6 will improve

MrToast — Tue, 12 May 2015 11:00:56 GMT

Well, I missed the <a href="http://www.ipv6consultancy.com/ipv6blog/?p=94">IPv6 Enablers conference</a> where BT spoke of rolling out IPv6 in 2015.
Its not difficult to find reference to Virgin also planning on 2015.
Together this would account for ~50% of UK market.

Re: Just saw this, maybe the momentum for IPv6 will improve

chrcoluk — Tue, 12 May 2015 11:05:20 GMT

good news

Re: Just saw this, maybe the momentum for IPv6 will improve

MrToast — Sat, 29 Aug 2015 19:41:24 GMT

Quote from: BrianC
it just brings them [Sky] up to the same level as Plusnet were, oh, three years ago.

Well, I just took a look at <a href="https://www.stateoftheinternet.com/trends-visualizations-ipv6-adoption-ipv4-exhaustion-global-heat-map-network-country-growth-data.html#networks">Akamai's Stats</a> and see that someone at Sky seems to have switched something on in July. Currently at 2.3% when I can't see any other UK ISP feature on the list.
I'd say Sky are ahead today. Wonder where BT and Virgin Media are? They said they were starting Roll out in 2015 too.
Of course I also wonder where Plusnet are!

Re: Just saw this, maybe the momentum for IPv6 will improve

zpeterk — Sun, 30 Aug 2015 07:20:38 GMT

I think Zen has now opened it's trial to all it's customers