topic Re: Hub 2 drops, packet loss and latency issues, bufferbloat in My Router

Hub 2 drops, packet loss and latency issues, bufferbloat

DarkLordOfAll — Sat, 24 Aug 2024 13:06:31 GMT

Hello, I have a hub 2 and over the last 18 months I have increased packet loss and latency to the point where part of my day is watching whirley things in the middle of my screen. My main PC is cable to the router and I have problem with this as well as anything wifi.

I have got a Thinkbroadband account which shows the regular drops and the packet loss etc. No one games in my house, it's just the usual Netflix and Iplayer etc. I have done the Bufferbloat test and got an F.

I have read that I need a router that does SQM which Hub 2 doesn't. I have tried talking to Plusnet who of course couldn't care less as they are getting paid and their end cannot see a problem.

can anyone recommend a router or some other fix for this?

Re: Hub 2 drops, packet loss and latency issues, bufferbloat

Baldrick1 — Sat, 24 Aug 2024 13:23:43 GMT

@DarkLordOfAll

What is your contracted speed and are you receiving at least the minimum guatanteed?

Are you getting line drops? If so what are the lights on your hub showing?

Re: Hub 2 drops, packet loss and latency issues, bufferbloat

DarkLordOfAll — Sat, 24 Aug 2024 13:47:19 GMT

Hello,

The upload is not the minimum, and the download is around that. The lights on the router is always blue.

Thanks.

Re: Hub 2 drops, packet loss and latency issues, bufferbloat

Baldrick1 — Sat, 24 Aug 2024 14:29:08 GMT

@DarkLordOfAll

So what are the speeds?

Re: Hub 2 drops, packet loss and latency issues, bufferbloat

DarkLordOfAll — Sat, 24 Aug 2024 15:09:01 GMT

BT Wholesale Advanced

Advance Test

Download Test

Download speed achieved during the test was 3.29 Mbps

For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 4 - 21 Mbps

IP Profile for your line is 15.14 Mbps

3.29 Mbps

21 Mbps

Upload Test

Upload speed achieved during the test was 0.73 Mbps

IP Profile for your line is 0.83 Mbps

0.73 Mbps

0.83 Mbps

Re: Hub 2 drops, packet loss and latency issues, bufferbloat

DarkLordOfAll — Sat, 24 Aug 2024 15:09:51 GMT

Timestamp

Saturday 24 August 2024 | 16:5:59

Ping

140 Ms

Download

3.29 Mbps

Upload

0.73 Mbps

Re: Hub 2 drops, packet loss and latency issues, bufferbloat

DarkLordOfAll — Sat, 24 Aug 2024 15:11:40 GMT

Summary of Performance Test

Timestamp

Saturday 24 August 2024 | 16:10:11

Ping

25 Ms

Download

14.62 Mbps

Upload

0.73 Mbps

Re: Hub 2 drops, packet loss and latency issues, bufferbloat

Baldrick1 — Sat, 24 Aug 2024 15:44:03 GMT

Do you have anything on your network that is uploading data? Typical devices are security cameras with cloud storage.

Uploading whilst trying to download will slow the download speed by delaying handshakes. Look up buffer bloat for more information.

Re: Hub 2 drops, packet loss and latency issues, bufferbloat

DarkLordOfAll — Sat, 24 Aug 2024 15:47:20 GMT

No, nothing like that.

Bufferbloat test. https://www.waveform.com/tools/bufferbloat?test-id=8921f496-7d32-490e-93af-601ce3dcdd85

Re: Hub 2 drops, packet loss and latency issues, bufferbloat

corringham — Mon, 26 Aug 2024 12:40:49 GMT

So is your connection an ADSL2+ line rather than FTTC? from the speeds it looks as if it is ADSL2+.

First thing to check is whether you can get FTTC (and if so whether it would be faster) or FTTP.

Twenty years ago 700Kbps upload was great - these days modern websites expect more, so although comments about buffer bloat are valid, any traffic QoS priorities only really tackle the symptoms rather than the cause of the problem.

Re: Hub 2 drops, packet loss and latency issues, bufferbloat

DarkLordOfAll — Mon, 26 Aug 2024 14:13:32 GMT

Yes, it's ADSL2+. No, I can't get FTTP or FTTC. Just ADSL where I live.

Re: Hub 2 drops, packet loss and latency issues, bufferbloat

corringham — Mon, 26 Aug 2024 14:27:31 GMT

@DarkLordOfAll wrote:

Just ADSL where I live.

Do you have coverage from any 4G cells? I used a directional external 4G router to good effect until an altnet built FTTP here - I could get much better speed using that than was available from ADSL2+ (sub-USO) - especially upload speed.

Three have unlimited 4G available for £24pm (new customer £12pm for 6 months, then £24pm for the remaining 18 months)

Re: Hub 2 drops, packet loss and latency issues, bufferbloat

DarkLordOfAll — Mon, 26 Aug 2024 15:39:00 GMT

I do but would need a booster. I can get some support for this but it's all coincided with my Plusnet contact being renewed and various other things so I haven't been able to look further into this.

I have been tied into another 2 year contract with Plusnet for largely non existent internet because from their end everything looks fine.

This is sy I am looking at alternatives. I have a Hub 2 and I have read that different routers may help.

Re: Hub 2 drops, packet loss and latency issues, bufferbloat

corringham — Tue, 27 Aug 2024 07:02:39 GMT

Don't expect too much improvement with a better router. QoS to help with "buffer bloat" works by slowing down some traffic in order to ensure ACKs get sent. With a very low upstream speed the result can be a smoother experience for downloads, but it can't make it faster.

It may be that a 4G router would be a better use of money than a better ADSL router - even allowing for the Plusnet contract. You could also consider load balancing between 4G and Plusnet - I did that for a while when I first moved to 4G.

Re: Hub 2 drops, packet loss and latency issues, bufferbloat

Mustrum — Tue, 27 Aug 2024 08:40:06 GMT

@DarkLordOfAll It would be good to see what your line should be getting to ensure you are getting the best speeds and you don’t have a fault.

Could you post the results from the BTW DSL checker using your phone number if possible, or the address checker if not. Hide your personal details.

https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/#/ADSL

Sight of the Thinkbroadband chart would also be useful, to determine loading on the line.

Re: Hub 2 drops, packet loss and latency issues, bufferbloat

markhawkin — Fri, 30 Aug 2024 16:55:42 GMT

@DarkLordOfAll

Firstly some sympathy as you do seem to be on a rutted track off the "information super highway".

The first thing I would wonder about is whether something (your PC perhaps) is syncing loads of data with a cloud service.

I would suspect Microsoft's OneDrive.

This can fill up the upload and make everything else slow to a trickle.

As far as routers are concerned, you could look at a Draytek 28xx series router. For example a 2860ac (I used one for some years) seems to go for £20 - £30 second hand now and allows all sorts of QoS settings (it has a reasonably steep learning curve however).

I would also consider if one of the mobile networks can provide coverage (try cheap sims from all 4 mobile networks but start with EE).

If you had a suitable router for a mobile network (Ethernet out) the Draytek would load balance between an ADSL line and mobile data.

Re: Hub 2 drops, packet loss and latency issues, bufferbloat

DarkLordOfAll — Mon, 02 Sep 2024 11:23:43 GMT

Hello Mustrum,

I have attached BT test.

here is a link to the Thinkbroadband.

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/broadband/monitoring/quality/share/cd47d22ed23f38ecfbaef5f27033a9e95ddf0f30

Let me know you thoughts.

Re: Hub 2 drops, packet loss and latency issues, bufferbloat

DarkLordOfAll — Mon, 02 Sep 2024 11:25:53 GMT

Hello,

I turned off cloud storage ages ago for similar reasons.

I am having a look at the Draytek.

I have just posted more data from my line.

Thanks for your help.

Re: Hub 2 drops, packet loss and latency issues, bufferbloat

Mustrum — Mon, 02 Sep 2024 11:40:43 GMT

@DarkLordOfAll the BTW checker shows you are getting good speeds based on the distance you are from the exchange, although it would have been more helpful to show if there were any more lines above the ones you did show.

The thinkbroadband chart shows heavy usage except when you are asleep.

Forget about bufferbloat and latency, either turn everything else off and only use one device/app at a time, or better move to somewhere you can get faster broadband.

Re: Hub 2 drops, packet loss and latency issues, bufferbloat

markhawkin — Tue, 03 Sep 2024 17:53:21 GMT

@DarkLordOfAll

You may have looked at this, but you seem to be below the "Universal Service Obligation".

https://www.bt.com/broadband/USO

In your situation I would definitely look at the speeds achievable from mobile networks.

I might even consider Starlink.

With a connection as slow as yours, typical modern PC software can consume more bandwith than your connection can offer and I think that's what is happening.

I assume no "alternative network" is available to you.