topic Re: Simple question - does Hub2 provide Power over Ethernet (PoE)? in My Router

Simple question - does Hub2 provide Power over Ethernet (PoE)?

ThaGuMath — Thu, 25 Jul 2024 12:50:43 GMT

I have a Panasonic KX-UT123X SIP phone, which uses Power over Ethernet.

The phone doesn't power on when I connect to the hub.

I've tried 3 different cables, each of which work with other devices, so I'm wondering if the hub actually conforms to Ethernet spec.

I tried PlusNet support, who didn't know, nor would they give me a look at the manual for the hub.

So, has anyone experience of powering a phone or anything else from the hub's Ethernet port?

If anyone had a link for the manual that would be a great help too.

Thanks in advance!

Re: Simple question - does Hub2 provide Power over Ethernet (PoE)?

Dan_the_Van — Thu, 25 Jul 2024 13:10:30 GMT

@ThaGuMath

The Hub two does not support PoE.

I would suggest buying the recommended Panasonic power supply or a passive PoE power supply of the correct voltage

Edit: there is no verbose guide for the Hub two just this https://www.plus.net/help/broadband/router-user-guides/hub-two/

Re: Simple question - does Hub2 provide Power over Ethernet (PoE)?

ThaGuMath — Thu, 25 Jul 2024 13:17:50 GMT

Brilliant - thanks for such a quick answer!

I'll probably go with a 'line injector' for PoE - I found this link interesting:

https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/solutions/enterprise-networks/what-is-power-over-ethernet.html

I'll post up a link to what I end with.

Thanks again.😎

Re: Simple question - does Hub2 provide Power over Ethernet (PoE)?

ThaGuMath — Thu, 25 Jul 2024 13:59:47 GMT

I'm going with a TP-Link PoE10r from Amazon.

The phone manual calls for 'IEEE 802.3af Class 2 standard compliant', which is 'up to 15.4 W of DC power (minimum 44 V DC and 350 mA) on each port. ' (Wikipedia).

This seems pretty standard for SIP phones.

The spec is wrong on the product information: it suggests variable output up to 12V, whereas the IEEE spec calls for minimums of 44V and 12W. I'm confident the TP-Link will provide that. Their documentation is up the usual TP-Link standards: quite a low bar in my experience! 😂

There are cheaper options out there, but the ones costing a couple of quid don't include a power brick so not quite as cheap as they seem.

Re: Simple question - does Hub2 provide Power over Ethernet (PoE)?

Baldrick1 — Thu, 25 Jul 2024 14:33:55 GMT

@ThaGuMath

My reading of the datasheet is that this devices function is the exact opposite of what you need. It takes PoE data and splits out the power from the Ethernet signal into a separate output. You want one that injects power to the Ethernet, not remove it.

Re: Simple question - does Hub2 provide Power over Ethernet (PoE)?

ThaGuMath — Thu, 25 Jul 2024 14:37:22 GMT

Yes, I'm starting to realise that too - I'm new to this PoE game!

I was actually looking for a way to delete my post - save myself embarrassment!

I'll keep researching, and put up a link to what I find.

Cheers!

Re: Simple question - does Hub2 provide Power over Ethernet (PoE)?

Baldrick1 — Thu, 25 Jul 2024 14:39:43 GMT

@ThaGuMath

Don't be embarassed, this how others learn to avoid falling into the same trap. I use one of these with my PoE camera. https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B001PS9E5I?ref_=pe_3187911_248764861_302_E_DDE_di_1

Re: Simple question - does Hub2 provide Power over Ethernet (PoE)?

Dan_the_Van — Thu, 25 Jul 2024 14:50:39 GMT

@ThaGuMath

The mistake was mine, not yours, I was looking at injector and typed passive 🙄

I'm not having a good day, off for a rest!

Re: Simple question - does Hub2 provide Power over Ethernet (PoE)?

mystreet1 — Thu, 25 Jul 2024 18:41:32 GMT

Or get one of these for further expansion

https://amzn.eu/d/08dSXYwo

Re: Simple question - does Hub2 provide Power over Ethernet (PoE)?

pjmarsh — Fri, 26 Jul 2024 07:35:25 GMT

Personally I went down a similar route to what @mystreet1 has suggested. My only comment on that one is that it is only a 10/100Mb switch. If you wanted to add a PoE Wifi Access Point or such like off it in the future or use any of the ports for attaching non-PoE equipment to, then you might want to go for a Gigabit PoE switch. In the long run it could end up saving money. If you can only see yourself having a voip phone (and maybe some camera) connected, then something like that one would be fine.

Re: Simple question - does Hub2 provide Power over Ethernet (PoE)?

ThaGuMath — Fri, 26 Jul 2024 15:18:36 GMT

Thanks for all the input folks.

I've gone down the route suggested of getting the cheap PoE switch - only cost £4.50 more than the single port PoE injector, so it was worth the extra.

Or, at least I'll find out tomorrow, after Amazon deliver it...

What was this all about?

My wife and myself are carers for a disabled adult son, and we need a phone connection in case of a power cut. I've got an 850 VA UPS for the Hub 2, which will also supply the PoE switch and through it the phone. Tests so far indicate a time of about 2.5 hours with the power off to the UPS, which I hope will go up when I simulate a real power cut and stop all the rest of the house accessing the internet. Boy do we go through some juice!

Waiting is...

Re: Simple question - does Hub2 provide Power over Ethernet (PoE)?

MisterW — Sat, 27 Jul 2024 08:02:56 GMT

Tests so far indicate a time of about 2.5 hours with the power off to the UPS, which I hope will go up when I simulate a real power cut and stop all the rest of the house accessing the internet.

@ThaGuMath I wouldn't worry too much about increasing it, if you're on FTTC (or SoGEA) then the local cabinet battery backup will only last about 40 minutes!.

FTTP will give a longer backup since there's nothing external locally that's powered. The OLT that is powered, is back in the exchange with battery and backup generator (Its assumed) power.

Re: Simple question - does Hub2 provide Power over Ethernet (PoE)?

mystreet1 — Sat, 27 Jul 2024 09:18:11 GMT

Not always so 😀

Just got this.

Due to a traffic accident a cabinet in your area has been damaged. We're on site completing repairs, but you may experience flutuations or downtime with your service for the next 48 hours while we complete the work. We apologise for any inconvenience caused

Re: Simple question - does Hub2 provide Power over Ethernet (PoE)?

Baldrick1 — Sat, 27 Jul 2024 09:52:44 GMT

@ThaGuMath wrote:

... I've got an 850 VA UPS for the Hub 2, which will also supply the PoE switch and through it the phone.

To avoid taking this thread off topic you will find comment regarding UPS rating here: https://community.plus.net/t5/Tech-Help-Software-Hardware-etc/UPS-Rating-and-Relevance-to-Maintaining-an-Internet-VoIP/m-p/1979800#M96535

Re: Simple question - does Hub2 provide Power over Ethernet (PoE)?

ThaGuMath — Thu, 08 Aug 2024 20:22:19 GMT

So, quick update - thanks for all the replies.

I'm just back from collecting midgie bites camping in the highlands, hence the break in transmission!

I ended up with a Panasonic KX-UT123 SIP phone in place of the Draytek router, and a Goalake PoE 5-port switch, both from Amazon.

I did an endurance test today, and the system (using the UPS) kept going for 2hours 57 minutes before the UPS started beeping. Since the internet was in constant use, that's a performance I'm very happy with. Baldrick's links were well worth studying, thanks for them.

The KX-UT123 took quite some setting up, but it works very well for our purposes. If anyone's looking for a cheap SIP phone, at £22 plus an outrageous £7.99 for delivery it's actually a good deal.

Having spent two days setting the verdamte thing up, I can offer some experience if anyone else is thinking of setting one up!

Anyway, signing off for now, and thanks again for all the help.

Re: Simple question - does Hub2 provide Power over Ethernet (PoE)?

ThaGuMath — Fri, 09 Aug 2024 19:52:05 GMT

One final word: to allow incoming calls to the phone I had to:

Allow incoming VOIP on the router:

Home > Advanced Settings > Firewall - choose the port forwarding tab, and put in the values for your phone: you can select by ip address or by device. The default port is 5060, so I used that for all 4 of the ports (inbound and outbound), and I took the lazy way out and enabled TCP/UDP.

I called the rule VOIP.

Allow ALG on the router:

Home > Advanced Settings > Firewall - choose the configuration tab, and at the bottom of the screen

change Enable SIP ALG to Yes.

Remember to save the settings!

On the phone I made sure that the Global Address Selection was set to STUN.

Blue skies folks!

Re: Simple question - does Hub2 provide Power over Ethernet (PoE)?

MisterW — Sat, 10 Aug 2024 06:19:09 GMT

@ThaGuMath NO, NO, NO !!! don't do that, you've opened up your phone to the whole world!. Best case is You'll likely get 'ghost calls' , worst case you'll get SIPVicious attacks and (depending on how secure your phone is) your SIP account hacked.

There's no need to do all that, you just configure NAT keep alive.

So I would VERY STRONGLY suggest you:-

1) On the KX, Disable Global Address Selection on the KX ( page 90 of the KX admin guide )

2) On the KX Make sure that Global Address Usage is disabled for all lines ( page 92 )

3) On the KX Set the NAT Keep alive interval (for all lines in use) to 20 secs ( page 114 )

4) on the KX ensure the SIP Transport is set to UDP ( page 111 )

5) Remove all the port forwarding for port 5060 on the Hub 2

6) Disable the SIP ALG on the Hub 2 ( most SIP ALGs are 'broken' anyway! )

I'm happy to explain more fully later if you would like, but I wanted to get this out quickly.

Re: Simple question - does Hub2 provide Power over Ethernet (PoE)?

MisterW — Sat, 10 Aug 2024 08:48:13 GMT

@ThaGuMath supplementary..

Having re-read the KX manual , you may need to also set the Supports Rport parameter on the KX ( page 114 )

Should using the NAT keepalive not prove successful and you wish to retain your port forwarding solution you MAY be able to improve security by setting the Enable SSAF parameter in the KX ( again page 114 ). Its not a parameter I'm familiar with but if it does what 'it says on the tin' them that might prevent any SIP messages other than from your voip suppliers servers and so prevent any ghost calls or attacks.

edit: you do realise that the KX is quite an old device and may be obsolete ? https://www.provu.co.uk/panasonic-kx-ut123x.html