topic Re: Hub 2 - ghost WiFI even when WiFI disabled in My Router

Hub 2 - ghost WiFI even when WiFI disabled

jwsg — Thu, 25 Aug 2022 17:13:27 GMT

I've been happy with a SmartHub 6 for a while but decided to give the Hub 2 a go - even though it lacks split SSID. I found devices like LG TV and phone were mostly choosing 2.4GHz so I turned off 2.4GHz WiFi to use the old Smarthub as an AP for 2.4GHz instead.

But using WiFi Analyser apps on the phone I noticed a strong 2.4GHz signal with a hidden SSID. This matches the channel set in the Hub 2 even with its 2.4GHz WiFi turned off. With it tuned back on the ghost even matches the signal strength of the Hub 2 but with a different MAC address.

I'd like to think it's just a glitch with the analyser apps or a neighbour's router but as it follows the channel set in the Hub 2 it really looks like an unwanted transmission - even when WiFi is turned off.

Re: Hub 2 - ghost WiFI even when WiFI disabled

Mustrum — Thu, 25 Aug 2022 17:17:24 GMT

I beleive it is a known feature - to be addressed in a future firmware release.

Am sure there was a post on it not so long ago.

Re: Hub 2 - ghost WiFI even when WiFI disabled

Anonymous — Thu, 25 Aug 2022 18:43:46 GMT

I think that on the BT SmartHub2, (which is very similar to the Plusnet Hub 2), this "ghost" network is for BT WiFi - where BT Broadband customers share a portion of their broadband WiFi with each other.

I would guess that the PN Hub's firmware was derived from the BT SH2's, and someone forgot to remove this "feature"?

Re: Hub 2 - ghost WiFI even when WiFI disabled

Baldrick1 — Thu, 25 Aug 2022 18:53:08 GMT

From memory I think that it’s associated with the backhaul used with a Smarthub 2 plus remote meshed satellite disk combination.

Anyway, it’s unused so nothing to worry about.

Re: Hub 2 - ghost WiFI even when WiFI disabled

Dan_the_Van — Thu, 25 Aug 2022 18:54:34 GMT

An answer from the product team here

https://community.plus.net/t5/Tech-Help-Software-Hardware-etc/Plusnet-Hub-Two-Hidden-Network/td-p/1883157

Re: Hub 2 - ghost WiFI even when WiFI disabled

Anonymous — Thu, 25 Aug 2022 18:54:56 GMT

@Baldrick1

I thought that backhaul link was in the 5GHz band - for maximum speed?

Re: Hub 2 - ghost WiFI even when WiFI disabled

Dan_the_Van — Thu, 25 Aug 2022 19:00:22 GMT

There are times when you can get faster throughput using 2.4GHz so I'd expect both to be used and the best connection speed to be used as required. That's how my TP-Link mesh works

Re: Hub 2 - ghost WiFI even when WiFI disabled

jwsg — Thu, 25 Aug 2022 19:19:48 GMT

I did find https://community.plus.net/t5/My-Router/Hub-Two-wireless-switched-off-but-still-has-unnamed-2-4GHz-and/td-p/1848718 dating from 8 months ago. In an ideal world this would have been fixed or FAQd by now - it's already enough hassle making network & router changes to investigate this to then find it's a known issue.

I suspected the same might be happening on 5GHz too.

But worse is reading "There will be an option in the not too distant future to disable all Wi-Fi transmission; as long as Wi-Fi is enabled on the hub though, the hidden network is likely to remain." from @bobpullen as I need 5GHz and silent 2.4GHz

---

I was happy with the Home Hub 6 with power-line adaptors but wanted to try a Netgear WAX204 as a wireless bridge to make a faster 5GHz based connection across a small distance.

The Home Hub 6 My Network page seems to get quite confused when multiple devices are effectively connected over one WiFi connection so I hoped the Hub 2 / Smart Hub 2 would cope better being tested with mesh setups.

Yes it is a little better but device discovery and naming is still flaky especially any with Static IP - so please for the sake of getting hold of a £40 WAX204 in wireless bridge mode could this be tested and improved?

But the loss of split SSID is a major irritant - key devices like the LG TV are mostly joining at 2.4GHz - I guess it's people not realising this is happening more than it being acceptable why there's not a lot more complaints about taking away such a simple setting,

Maybe a Tp-Link Archer VR400 V3 is an option if its stable?

Other routers support mesh without dropping the option for split SSID and transmitting unwanted WiFi signals

Re: Hub 2 - ghost WiFI even when WiFI disabled

Dan_the_Van — Thu, 25 Aug 2022 19:31:37 GMT

@jwsg

As you have a Hub Two you could put it into Bridge Mode and buy a router which supports PPPoE connection.

Bridge Mode turns the wireless off completely

One Mesh uses a hidden network for it's connections

Dan

Edit: I see no impact to the WiFi signal due to these hidden networks

Re: Hub 2 - ghost WiFI even when WiFI disabled

jwsg — Thu, 25 Aug 2022 19:58:14 GMT

There is a strong signal being transmitted when the WiFi is disabled. Devices wont connect as the SSID is hidden but surely it will suffer the same interference as if it was from a neighbour's router.

I dont really have space to fit another router next to the hub 2 at the master socket nor much desire to add any more boxes with whats happening to energy costs.

I'd just rather this fault, known for maybe a year, and issues like having no mesh mode / split SSID option, were fixed.

Re: Hub 2 - ghost WiFI even when WiFI disabled

Mustrum — Thu, 25 Aug 2022 20:47:21 GMT

@jwsg did you read the thread you quoted earlier?

Is it actually causing you any issues, or is it just a cosmetic issue?

Re: Hub 2 - ghost WiFI even when WiFI disabled

jwsg — Thu, 25 Aug 2022 21:06:12 GMT

@Mustrum ive re-read the thread but I'm still not sure why this is just a cosmetic issue?

Re: Hub 2 - ghost WiFI even when WiFI disabled

bobpullen — Thu, 25 Aug 2022 21:13:43 GMT

@jwsg - the next firmware build contains an option to completely diable the Wi-Fi radios but as you suspect, this caters for an 'all or nothing' use case i.e. there will be no option to selectively disable for just 2.4GHz or 5GHz.

There are no plans to tweak the functionality beyond what's above at this stage. Same situation with the splitting of the Wi-Fi bands too I'm afraid.

Re: Hub 2 - ghost WiFI even when WiFI disabled

jwsg — Thu, 25 Aug 2022 21:19:32 GMT

Many thanks @bobpullen for taking the time to clarify this.

There's probably others who've noticed this or will in the future as they move to Hub 2 so could this be mentioned in some help text or FAQ if its by design?

Re: Hub 2 - ghost WiFI even when WiFI disabled

bobpullen — Thu, 25 Aug 2022 21:22:33 GMT

The next time there's an update to the GUI spec, I'll see if we can add something to the tool tips on the Advanced Wi-Fi pages.

Re: Hub 2 - ghost WiFI even when WiFI disabled

Anonymous — Thu, 25 Aug 2022 21:29:54 GMT

@Bob

I'm confused.

"the next firmware build contains an option to completely diable the Wi-Fi radios but as you suspect, this caters for an 'all or nothing' use case i.e. there will be no option to selectively disable for just 2.4GHz or 5GHz."

My Plusnet Hub 2 has an facility in the GUI, which seems to offer the option to disable the two WiFi bands separately.

Home > Advanced Settings > Advanced Wireless

Re: Hub 2 - ghost WiFI even when WiFI disabled

jwsg — Thu, 25 Aug 2022 21:37:13 GMT

I'm guessing the new completely disable option does get rid of the ghost as well on both bands - whereas the current 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz individual disables are more like cosmetic options that inhibit SSIDs from being broadcast while still radiating at full power

Its the kind of thing that maybe makes sense to one engineer in their lab but at the detriment to the majority of their customers.

Re: Hub 2 - ghost WiFI even when WiFI disabled

Baldrick1 — Fri, 26 Aug 2022 10:39:05 GMT

@jwsg

See https://community.plus.net/t5/Tech-Help-Software-Hardware-etc/Plusnet-Hub-Two-Hidden-Network/m-p/1883209#M93269

I doubt many customers know it’s there.

What I haven’t read yet is evidence that it’s presence is detrimental to wireless performance. I accept that there could be if there was a lot of traffic on it, but there’s none.

Re: Hub 2 - ghost WiFI even when WiFI disabled

bobpullen — Fri, 26 Aug 2022 10:47:33 GMT

@jwsg wrote:

I'm guessing the new completely disable option does get rid of the ghost as well on both bands - whereas the current 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz individual disables are more like cosmetic options that inhibit SSIDs from being broadcast while still radiating at full power.

Correct.

Re: Hub 2 - ghost WiFI even when WiFI disabled

Baldrick1 — Fri, 26 Aug 2022 11:29:13 GMT

Thanks for the update @bobpullen .

It will be interesting to see how this affects power consumption.