topic Re: FTTC Speed 23Mbps, paying for 40Mbps! in Full Fibre

FTTC Speed 23Mbps, paying for 40Mbps!

PeteB — Tue, 30 Nov 2021 13:55:54 GMT

These are my router stats from my FTTC / 40mbps connection:

	Upstream	Downstream
Current Rate (kbps)	8238	24999
Max Rate (kbps)	8239	57703
SNR Margin (dB)	6.4	18.2
Line Attenuation (dB)	3.8	16.9
Errors (pkts)	7	0

The connection is stable and I've been connected for 2 days now without a drop.

I've previously done all the standard things Plusnet support make you do - like running from the test socket, which makes no difference. Over the last couple of years I've also had 3 separate Openreach engineer visits. Typically, they say they found something in the stuff outside, reset the connection, it starts great and drifts down to what you see in my stats above.

I kind of just gave up, thinking the copper from the cabinet is just knackered and there's no way Openreach are going to redo it. (I think other properties on the same cabinet are similarly affected.)

So, my question is whether there is anything relevant / diagnostic from the stats you see here, that I should be taking up with Plusnet. Or should I just be reverting to my 'putting up with it' mindset?

Thank you!

Pete

Moderator's note by Dick (Strat): Post released from Auto Spam Filter.

Re: FTTC Speed 23Mbps, paying for 40Mbps!

jab1 — Tue, 30 Nov 2021 14:01:40 GMT

@PeteB Welcome to the forums.First point - those D/S figures look horrible, so I see your frustration. Which modem/router are you using?

BT Broadband To give us something to start with, can you please post screenshots of the results from (a) BT Broadband (obscuring your phone number and (b)BTW Performance Tester - the 'Advanced Diagnostics' bit.

Re: FTTC Speed 23Mbps, paying for 40Mbps!

pjmarsh — Tue, 30 Nov 2021 14:02:35 GMT

It looks like your line is Banded, which is where the equipment in the cabinet puts a maximum speed limit on your line to keep it stable. This could be reset, but if whatever caused it to be banded (a fault, interference, a dodgy router) is still present then it may mean your line goes unstable and then gets banded again. That may need another Openreach engineer, or multiple of them to get to the bottom of it all.

Re: FTTC Speed 23Mbps, paying for 40Mbps!

jab1 — Tue, 30 Nov 2021 14:04:45 GMT

Good spot, @pjmarsh - but some solid data always helps.

Re: FTTC Speed 23Mbps, paying for 40Mbps!

pjmarsh — Tue, 30 Nov 2021 14:07:05 GMT

@jab1, Yes definitely! We cross posted then and I was going to put some more but got distracted whilst posting and then had to do something else, so posted where I was! @PeteB, what John's requested is definitely worthwhile doing.

Re: FTTC Speed 23Mbps, paying for 40Mbps!

jab1 — Tue, 30 Nov 2021 14:08:26 GMT

Thought that might have been the case, @pjmarsh .

Re: FTTC Speed 23Mbps, paying for 40Mbps!

PeteB — Tue, 30 Nov 2021 14:23:43 GMT

Many thanks for the swift response. I was getting the same stats with my Plusnet Hub One but have been running a new TP-Link AC2100 (aka Archer VR600) for the last two or three weeks. (It has presets for Plusnet connections, which I used.)

I've attached the screen captures you requested - all in one image.

Thank for responding!

Pete1

Re: FTTC Speed 23Mbps, paying for 40Mbps!

jab1 — Tue, 30 Nov 2021 14:30:15 GMT

@PeteB Thanks for that. I agree with @pjmarsh - for some reason you are banded at around 23Mbps, so there is something wrong somewhere - but unfortunately those figures don't suggest where.

I am not familiar with Draytek equipment, but is there anywhere on there which will give detail comparable with the PN Hub Help Desk ? - amazing what you can discover off there, and also the equivalent of the Event Log WAN tab?

Re: FTTC Speed 23Mbps, paying for 40Mbps!

Baldrick1 — Tue, 30 Nov 2021 14:45:24 GMT

@PeteB

It's pretty obvious why your speed is low. Your SNR is very high, probably because the line is banded. I trust that you are leaving your hub permanently powered up? This can be caused by interference or constant dropping of the DSL connection.

All that you can do is report a fault at https://faults.plus.net.

Re: FTTC Speed 23Mbps, paying for 40Mbps!

PeteB — Tue, 30 Nov 2021 17:18:31 GMT

@Baldrick1 Yes, permanently powered up, except very occasionally (couple of times a month) when wifi appears to drop.

If it's "caused by interference or constant dropping of the DSL connection" then would it be right to diagnose interference, given the DSL connection does not drop very often? ("Not very often = up for several days, typically, between drops.)

I will take your advice and report the fault. Thank you for your help - much appreciated.

Pete

Re: FTTC Speed 23Mbps, paying for 40Mbps!

PeteB — Tue, 30 Nov 2021 17:35:05 GMT

@jab1 It's a TP-Link, and unfortunately the table I posted in my original post is all it seems to give. If necessary I can reconnect the old PN Hub, but the reason I replaced it is that the reset button wasn't working, the wifi seemed to drop from time to time (...and I fancied a shiny new router that might be a little better than the PN Hub!)

FWIW, on a wired connection the TP-Link serves web pages subjectively faster then the PN Hub. Irrelevant, possibly placebo, but thought I'd put it out there! :-))

Thanks again!

Pete

Re: FTTC Speed 23Mbps, paying for 40Mbps!

jab1 — Tue, 30 Nov 2021 17:42:00 GMT

OK, @PeteB As usual, the newer the gear the less useful, diagnostically, it is. Not your fault, just something I have observed over the last couple of years or so.

I note uou are following @Baldrick1 's advice, which is reasonable given that you are unable to provide any more useful data. If you get a resolution and remember this topic, could you let us know the result?

Re: FTTC Speed 23Mbps, paying for 40Mbps!

TheMightyAJ — Wed, 01 Dec 2021 09:28:11 GMT

Hi @PeteB,

I'm really sorry to hear that you've been experiencing issues with the speeds. I've had a look at your account this morning and I can see that there has been an engineer visit arranged to investigate the fault further. Please let us know how the visit goes and we'll be happy to help out should there be any issues afterwards.

Re: FTTC Speed 23Mbps, paying for 40Mbps!

PeteB — Wed, 01 Dec 2021 09:46:19 GMT

Hi @jab1 ,

Yes, I was hoping the newer TP-Link would give me more diagnostic information and am disappointed that it doesn't! I will reconnect the Plusnet at some point and capture the Helpdesk stats.

I raised the fault with Plusnet last night and, impressively, they have booked me an Openreach visit today. I'm not optimistic at finding a solution because, as stated previously, I believe the copper from the cabinet (I'm quite a way from the cabinet) is in a poor state and more complex/longer than it actually needs to be. (I know this from previous engineer visits to cure the same issue.)

To be honest, and call me a pessimist if you like, last night I was regretting the whole disruption of raising this! I can still stream at 23Mbps etc. so getting nearer to the speed I pay for is, for the most part, a theoretical benefit. But we are where we are and, hopefully my pessimism will be unfounded and the solution found!

I will update this thread on the outcome, in case anyone is interested! And thank you very much to you and all the other kind people who have responded to this thread!

Pete

Re: FTTC Speed 23Mbps, paying for 40Mbps!

Baldrick1 — Wed, 01 Dec 2021 11:18:06 GMT

@PeteB wrote:

@Baldrick1

If it's "caused by interference or constant dropping of the DSL connection" then would it be right to diagnose interference, given the DSL connection does not drop very often? ("Not very often = up for several days, typically, between drops.)

Interference can be funny stuff. At present your connection can ride through SHINE interference due to the high SNR on the line. All that will happen is that the SNR will reduce whilst the occasional interference is present. If this is the problem then this could cause the banding and be the reason for it to revert to your current speed after a reset.

This can be a nightmare to find. If Openreach fail to find a solution or it comes back I suggest that you see if your TP-Link hub will run a program such as dslstats and use that to monitor your SNR over a day or so. If that shows sudden drops in SNR then it will give you a clue as to when it is occurring and you know when to look for likely causes. See here for a good explanation of REIN and SHINE: https://support.zen.co.uk/kb/Knowledgebase/Broadband-Understanding-REIN-and-SHINE

P.S. To be pedantic. You are not paying for 40Mbps download speed. You are paying for a service that exceeds your contractual MGALS up to 40Mbps maximum.

Re: FTTC Speed 23Mbps, paying for 40Mbps!

PeteB — Wed, 01 Dec 2021 12:31:06 GMT

The Openreach engineer has just left.

He did a DLM reset and the speed has got back to ~36mbps, but (as that's all he did) I fear it's unlikely to last very long. I will monitor it over the next few days.

He said ~25mbps is the best I would be likely to get, being ~700 metres from the cabinet. Which is different to what the official BT info and Plusnet say - possibly some expectations management mind games in operation?

He said the line quality was very good when he tested it and that, in his opinion, there is nothing wrong with the line quality.

If there is 'interference' it is unlikely to be coming from my property as I have no telephone extensions - it's literally a case of across from the pole, into the garage, through the wall into a Master Socket 5C and into the router. My speed tests are via a wired connection to the router.

Finally, he explained that DLM will reduce speeds to get a stable connection but will not attempt to automatically increase them again (which is a puzzling shame if the reduction is due to a temporary issue).

He also said that ISPs did have the capability of remotely resetting DLM.

I fear I will be back to where I started before too long! 😞

Re: FTTC Speed 23Mbps, paying for 40Mbps!

Baldrick1 — Wed, 01 Dec 2021 12:50:51 GMT

@PeteB

Which only goes to show that you should take anything that comes from an Openreach ‘engineer’ with a pinch of salt.

1. https://www.increasebroadbandspeed.co.uk/chart-of-bt-fttc-vdsl2-speed-against-distance-from-the-cabinet suggests 40 plus at 700m.

2. As I explained earlier, if the interference is intermittent then most of the time the line will look good. As the article explains, it could be caused by something switching on or off.

3. DLM works both ways.

4. Plusnet do not have the ability to reset FTTC DLM (they can with ADSL). They can request Openreach to reset it only if the line is banded.

Re: FTTC Speed 23Mbps, paying for 40Mbps!

PeteB — Wed, 01 Dec 2021 16:20:14 GMT

@Baldrick1 - thank you again for this valuable information!

Re:

Got it - agreed. Presumably Plusnet support should buy into this data?
The 612Khz am radio way of tracking interference sounds great! (I currently only have one AM radio with a non-digital tuning scale - I wonder how near 612Khz it needs to be to make it work for this?)
Great! I wonder why my speeds haven't gone (noticeably) up from where they fell to already, if my line is as good as the Openreach engineer asserted.
OK, thanks. It's as I already feared, I think - most Openreach engineers will tell you whatever they think you will swallow to let them get on their merry way. Not really their fault - they can only do as they are trained and are otherwise exposed if their isn't an actual solution that will satisfy the customer.

I guess where I go from here is that Plusnet will offer to allow me to terminate my contract for not delivering their stated minimum speed. I will work on the premise that the copper is the same whoever supplies my internet, that Plusnet are actually rather great in every other respect, and will therefore carry on as previously.

23Mbps is still much faster than the 5-7Mbps I was getting here on ADSL!

Re: FTTC Speed 23Mbps, paying for 40Mbps!

Baldrick1 — Wed, 01 Dec 2021 16:37:50 GMT

@PeteB

One thing that you can try is a reboot on your hub to see if that triggers the hub to pick up the speed. I think that there is a button on the top of the hub which might do this. Alternatively log in to the router, select disconnect, leave it a couple of minutes then reconnect. Do not just switch the hub off as this might irritate the DLM. Only try this once a day max or again DLM might rebel.

Re: FTTC Speed 23Mbps, paying for 40Mbps!

LaurenB — Wed, 01 Dec 2021 18:13:59 GMT

Hiya @PeteB, thanks for the update.

I have tested your line and can see that it looks to have been reset and we are seeing a sync speed of 40mb, so hopefully it stays that way for you.

I'd advise to monitor and let us know how things go.