topic Re: connection dropping in Full Fibre

connection dropping

gromet — Fri, 08 Oct 2021 01:38:58 GMT

not sure what happened to my first post

my connection drops at least once a week, sometimes more
can someone take a look

thanks

1. Product name:	Plusnet Hub
2. Serial number:	+081441+NQ83261044
3. Firmware version:	Software version 4.7.5.1.83.8.263 Last updated 11/06/19
4. Board version:	Plusnet Hub One
5. DSL uptime:	0 days, 13:37:58
6. Data rate:	19999 / 76684
7. Maximum data rate:	24357 / 76491
8. Noise margin:	8.4 / 3.4
9. Line attenuation:	17.6 / 15.8
10. Signal attenuation:	17.4 / 15.8
11. Data sent/received:	264.1 GB / 3054.6 GB
12. Broadband username:	removed
13. 2.4 GHz Wireless network/SSID:	PLSWG2
14. 2.4 GHz Wireless connections:	Disabled
15. 2.4 GHz Wireless security:	WPA2
16. 2.4 GHz Wireless channel:	Automatic (Smart Wireless)
17. 5 GHz Wireless network/SSID:	PLUSNET-SWG2-5ghz
18. 5 GHz Wireless connections:	Disabled
19. 5 GHz Wireless security:	WPA2
20. 5 GHz Wireless channel:	Automatic (Smart Wireless)
21. Firewall:	Default
22. MAC Address:	d8:7d:7f:bd:9b:be
23. Modulation:	G.993.2 Annex B
24. Software variant:	AA
25. Boot loader:	1.0.0

00:30:40, 08 Oct.	(11441032.880000) WAN operating mode is VDSL
00:30:40, 08 Oct.	(11441032.880000) Last WAN operating mode was VDSL
00:30:38, 08 Oct.	(11441031.160000) PPP IPCP Receive Configuration ACK
00:30:38, 08 Oct.	(11441031.120000) PPP IPCP Send Configuration Request
00:30:38, 08 Oct.	(11441031.110000) PPP IPCP Receive Configuration NAK
00:30:38, 08 Oct.	(11441031.110000) PPP IPCP Send Configuration ACK
00:30:38, 08 Oct.	(11441031.100000) PPP IPCP Receive Configuration Request
00:30:38, 08 Oct.	(11441031.100000) PPP IPCP Send Configuration Request
00:30:36, 08 Oct.	(11441029.570000) PPPoE is up - Down Rate=76684Kbps, Up Rate=19999Kbps; SNR Margin Down=3.6dB, Up=8.5dB
00:30:36, 08 Oct.	(11441029.560000) CHAP authentication successful
00:30:36, 08 Oct.	(11441029.520000) CHAP Receive Challenge
00:30:36, 08 Oct.	(11441029.520000) Starting CHAP authentication with peer
00:30:36, 08 Oct.	(11441029.510000) PPP LCP Receive Configuration ACK
00:30:36, 08 Oct.	(11441029.510000) PPP LCP Send Configuration Request
00:30:36, 08 Oct.	(11441029.500000) PPP LCP Receive Configuration Reject
00:30:36, 08 Oct.	(11441029.500000) PPP LCP Send Configuration ACK
00:30:36, 08 Oct.	(11441029.500000) PPP LCP Receive Configuration Request
00:30:36, 08 Oct.	(11441029.500000) PPP LCP Send Configuration Request
00:25:33, 08 Oct.	(11440725.780000) PPPoE is down after 746 minutes uptime [Disconnected]
00:25:30, 08 Oct.	(11440723.120000) PPP LCP Send Termination Request [Peer not responding]
11:59:08, 07 Oct.	(11395941.600000) WAN operating mode is VDSL
11:59:08, 07 Oct.	(11395941.600000) Last WAN operating mode was VDSL
11:59:06, 07 Oct.	(11395939.940000) PPP IPCP Receive Configuration ACK
11:59:06, 07 Oct.	(11395939.930000) PPP IPCP Send Configuration Request
11:59:06, 07 Oct.	(11395939.920000) PPP IPCP Receive Configuration NAK
11:59:06, 07 Oct.	(11395939.920000) PPP IPCP Send Configuration ACK
11:59:06, 07 Oct.	(11395939.920000) PPP IPCP Receive Configuration Request
11:59:06, 07 Oct.	(11395939.880000) PPP IPCP Send Configuration Request
11:59:04, 07 Oct.	(11395938.430000) PPPoE is up - Down Rate=76684Kbps, Up Rate=19999Kbps; SNR Margin Down=3.0dB, Up=8.5dB
11:59:04, 07 Oct.	(11395938.420000) CHAP authentication successful
11:59:04, 07 Oct.	(11395938.350000) CHAP Receive Challenge
11:59:04, 07 Oct.	(11395938.350000) Starting CHAP authentication with peer
11:59:04, 07 Oct.	(11395938.350000) PPP LCP Receive Configuration ACK
11:59:04, 07 Oct.	(11395938.350000) PPP LCP Send Configuration Request
11:59:04, 07 Oct.	(11395938.340000) PPP LCP Receive Configuration Reject
11:59:04, 07 Oct.	(11395938.340000) PPP LCP Send Configuration ACK
11:59:04, 07 Oct.	(11395938.340000) PPP LCP Receive Configuration Request
11:59:04, 07 Oct.	(11395938.340000) PPP LCP Send Configuration Request
11:58:14, 07 Oct.	(11395888.120000) PTM over DSL is up
11:57:39, 07 Oct.	(11395852.570000) PTM over DSL is down after 4428 minutes uptime
11:57:39, 07 Oct.	(11395852.560000) PPPoE is down after 4427 minutes uptime [Waiting for Underlying Connection (WAN Ethernet 7 - Down)]
11:57:36, 07 Oct.	(11395849.670000) PPP LCP Send Termination Request [User request]
10:10:13, 04 Oct.	(11130210.290000) WAN operating mode is VDSL
10:10:13, 04 Oct.	(11130210.290000) Last WAN operating mode was VDSL
10:10:11, 04 Oct.	(11130208.790000) PPP IPCP Receive Configuration ACK
10:10:11, 04 Oct.	(11130208.780000) PPP IPCP Send Configuration Request
10:10:11, 04 Oct.	(11130208.780000) PPP IPCP Receive Configuration NAK
10:10:11, 04 Oct.	(11130208.770000) PPP IPCP Send Configuration ACK
10:10:11, 04 Oct.	(11130208.770000) PPP IPCP Receive Configuration Request
10:10:11, 04 Oct.	(11130208.770000) PPP IPCP Send Configuration Request
10:10:10, 04 Oct.	(11130207.520000) PPPoE is up - Down Rate=76731Kbps, Up Rate=19999Kbps; SNR Margin Down=3.0dB, Up=8.4dB
10:10:10, 04 Oct.	(11130207.510000) CHAP authentication successful
10:10:10, 04 Oct.	(11130207.450000) CHAP Receive Challenge
10:10:10, 04 Oct.	(11130207.450000) Starting CHAP authentication with peer
10:10:10, 04 Oct.	(11130207.450000) PPP LCP Receive Configuration ACK
10:10:10, 04 Oct.	(11130207.440000) PPP LCP Send Configuration Request
10:10:10, 04 Oct.	(11130207.440000) PPP LCP Receive Configuration Reject
10:10:10, 04 Oct.	(11130207.440000) PPP LCP Send Configuration ACK
10:10:10, 04 Oct.	(11130207.440000) PPP LCP Receive Configuration Request
10:10:10, 04 Oct.	(11130207.430000) PPP LCP Send Configuration Request
10:09:20, 04 Oct.	(11130157.730000) PTM over DSL is up
10:08:46, 04 Oct.	(11130123.170000) PTM over DSL is down after 3561 minutes uptime
10:08:46, 04 Oct.	(11130123.170000) PPPoE is down after 3560 minutes uptime [Waiting for Underlying Connection (WAN Ethernet 7 - Down)]
10:08:43, 04 Oct.	(11130120.440000) PPP LCP Send Termination Request [User request]
22:48:16, 01 Oct.	(10916495.000000) WAN operating mode is VDSL
22:48:16, 01 Oct.	(10916494.990000) Last WAN operating mode was VDSL
22:48:14, 01 Oct.	(10916493.350000) PPP IPCP Receive Configuration ACK
22:48:14, 01 Oct.	(10916493.320000) PPP IPCP Send Configuration Request
22:48:14, 01 Oct.	(10916493.310000) PPP IPCP Receive Configuration NAK
22:48:14, 01 Oct.	(10916493.310000) PPP IPCP Send Configuration ACK
22:48:14, 01 Oct.	(10916493.310000) PPP IPCP Receive Configuration Request
22:48:14, 01 Oct.	(10916493.280000) PPP IPCP Send Configuration Request
22:48:12, 01 Oct.	(10916491.880000) PPPoE is up - Down Rate=76543Kbps, Up Rate=19999Kbps; SNR Margin Down=3.1dB, Up=8.4dB
22:48:12, 01 Oct.	(10916491.870000) CHAP authentication successful
22:48:12, 01 Oct.	(10916491.820000) CHAP Receive Challenge
22:48:12, 01 Oct.	(10916491.820000) Starting CHAP authentication with peer
22:48:12, 01 Oct.	(10916491.810000) PPP LCP Receive Configuration ACK
22:48:12, 01 Oct.	(10916491.810000) PPP LCP Send Configuration Request
22:48:12, 01 Oct.	(10916491.800000) PPP LCP Receive Configuration Reject
22:48:12, 01 Oct.	(10916491.800000) PPP LCP Send Configuration ACK
22:48:12, 01 Oct.	(10916491.800000) PPP LCP Receive Configuration Request
22:48:12, 01 Oct.	(10916491.800000) PPP LCP Send Configuration Request
22:47:24, 01 Oct.	(10916443.950000) PTM over DSL is up
22:46:49, 01 Oct.	(10916408.580000) PTM over DSL is down after 10116 minutes uptime
22:46:49, 01 Oct.	(10916408.580000) PPPoE is down after 10115 minutes uptime [Waiting for Underlying Connection (WAN Ethernet 7 - Down)]
22:46:46, 01 Oct.	(10916405.750000) PPP LCP Send Termination Request [User request]
22:11:15, 24 Sep.	(10309483.010000) WAN operating mode is VDSL
22:11:15, 24 Sep.	(10309483.010000) Last WAN operating mode was VDSL
22:11:13, 24 Sep.	(10309481.200000) PPP IPCP Receive Configuration ACK
22:11:13, 24 Sep.	(10309481.200000) PPP IPCP Send Configuration Request
22:11:13, 24 Sep.	(10309481.190000) PPP IPCP Receive Configuration NAK
22:11:13, 24 Sep.	(10309481.190000) PPP IPCP Send Configuration ACK
22:11:13, 24 Sep.	(10309481.190000) PPP IPCP Receive Configuration Request
22:11:13, 24 Sep.	(10309481.130000) PPP IPCP Send Configuration Request
22:11:12, 24 Sep.	(10309479.550000) PPPoE is up - Down Rate=76731Kbps, Up Rate=19999Kbps; SNR Margin Down=3.0dB, Up=8.3dB
22:11:12, 24 Sep.	(10309479.540000) CHAP authentication successful
22:11:12, 24 Sep.	(10309479.480000) CHAP Receive Challenge
22:11:12, 24 Sep.	(10309479.480000) Starting CHAP authentication with peer
22:11:12, 24 Sep.	(10309479.470000) PPP LCP Receive Configuration ACK
22:11:12, 24 Sep.	(10309479.470000) PPP LCP Send Configuration Request

22:11:12, 24 Sep.	(10309479.470000) PPP LCP Receive Configuration Reject
22:11:12, 24 Sep.	(10309479.470000) PPP LCP Send Configuration ACK
22:11:12, 24 Sep.	(10309479.460000) PPP LCP Receive Configuration Request
22:11:12, 24 Sep.	(10309479.460000) PPP LCP Send Configuration Request
22:10:21, 24 Sep.	(10309429.010000) PTM over DSL is up
22:09:46, 24 Sep.	(10309393.420000) PTM over DSL is down after 2655 minutes uptime
22:09:46, 24 Sep.	(10309393.420000) PPPoE is down after 2654 minutes uptime [Waiting for Underlying Connection (WAN Ethernet 7 - Down)]
22:09:43, 24 Sep.	(10309390.570000) PPP LCP Send Termination Request [User request]
01:55:18, 23 Sep.	(10150128.490000) WAN operating mode is VDSL
01:55:18, 23 Sep.	(10150128.490000) Last WAN operating mode was VDSL
01:55:17, 23 Sep.	(10150127.050000) PPP IPCP Receive Configuration ACK
01:55:17, 23 Sep.	(10150127.050000) PPP IPCP Send Configuration Request
01:55:17, 23 Sep.	(10150127.040000) PPP IPCP Receive Configuration NAK
01:55:17, 23 Sep.	(10150127.040000) PPP IPCP Send Configuration ACK
01:55:17, 23 Sep.	(10150127.030000) PPP IPCP Receive Configuration Request
01:55:17, 23 Sep.	(10150127.030000) PPP IPCP Send Configuration Request
01:55:15, 23 Sep.	(10150125.810000) PPPoE is up - Down Rate=76731Kbps, Up Rate=19999Kbps; SNR Margin Down=3.0dB, Up=8.2dB
01:55:15, 23 Sep.	(10150125.800000) CHAP authentication successful
01:55:15, 23 Sep.	(10150125.740000) CHAP Receive Challenge
01:55:15, 23 Sep.	(10150125.740000) Starting CHAP authentication with peer
01:55:15, 23 Sep.	(10150125.730000) PPP LCP Receive Configuration ACK
01:55:15, 23 Sep.	(10150125.730000) PPP LCP Send Configuration Request
01:55:15, 23 Sep.	(10150125.730000) PPP LCP Receive Configuration Reject
01:55:15, 23 Sep.	(10150125.720000) PPP LCP Send Configuration ACK
01:55:15, 23 Sep.	(10150125.720000) PPP LCP Receive Configuration Request
01:55:15, 23 Sep.	(10150125.720000) PPP LCP Send Configuration Request
01:54:26, 23 Sep.	(10150075.960000) PTM over DSL is up
01:53:51, 23 Sep.	(10150040.920000) PTM over DSL is down after 17281 minutes uptime
01:53:51, 23 Sep.	(10150040.920000) PPPoE is down after 17281 minutes uptime [Waiting for Underlying Connection (WAN Ethernet 7 - Down)]
01:53:48, 23 Sep.	(10150038.170000) PPP LCP Send Termination Request [User request]

Re: connection dropping

jab1 — Fri, 08 Oct 2021 06:43:59 GMT

@gromet Not PN staff unfortunately, but I have a couple of comments. You appear to have a BT/OR network problem, your downstream noise margin is too low, and your hub software could do with an upgrade - although that last point has nothing to do with your actual connection misbehaving.

As an aside, I wish more people with problems would post such comprehensive information when reporting problems.

Re: connection dropping

adam945 — Fri, 08 Oct 2021 08:13:04 GMT

Hello @gromet

Thanks a lot for reaching out I'm really sorry to hear that you're having problems with your service. I'll pop a visual radius below which does show the odd drop out, though not as frequent as the router logs suggest. I'm thinking that this is primarily a WIFI issue rather than one with the line.

Naturally, I went into your router settings to see how they've been configured and noticed something odd. You have no devices connected over wireless. Can you please provide us with an insight as to what you have connected and I'll be happy to follow up.

I've also requested a firmware update to be pushed through to your router.

Re: connection dropping

gromet — Fri, 08 Oct 2021 08:57:56 GMT

Hi Adam

I have a seperate router (nighthawk) for my LAN/Wireless setup. Connected to the plusnet via ethernet.

my main pc is connected to the nighthawk via ethernet also, along with a few other devices. Then we have quite a few devices connected to the wifi.

Re: connection dropping

Baldrick1 — Fri, 08 Oct 2021 09:14:02 GMT

@gromir
Unless you have set the Nighthawk up as an Access Point you will be double NATing, which might not be helping
As an aside there's nothing wrong or unusual about a 3dB download SNR.

Re: connection dropping

RealAleMadrid — Fri, 08 Oct 2021 09:25:53 GMT

@jab1 It is quite normal for downstream SNRM to be lower than 6dB on VDSL2 lines with G.Inp (an error correction method also know as re-transmission) If the line is stable in will be reduced in stages down to 3 dB giving faster sync speeds. My line actually runs perfectly well at 80Mbps downstream with 1.8dB SNRM, the target value is 3dB but for other reasons the actual margin is lower.

The problem the OP has is that one or a few drops a week is not considered to be a fault.

What I would like Plusnet to explain is the ambiguous message in the log .....

01:53:48, 23 Sep.

(10150038.170000) PPP LCP Send Termination Request [User request]

which occurs prior to every loss of connection. It certainly isn't a "User request". I have never had any meaningful explanation for this message apart from it causes the connection to drop.

Re: connection dropping

jab1 — Fri, 08 Oct 2021 09:30:59 GMT

@RealAleMadrid I totally understand what you are saying about the SNR values - must remember VDSL doesn't work quite like ADSL and I still sometimes fail on that score.

I can't understand that 'user request' message either, but I've seen it on other posters logs in the past, but not given it much thought.

Re: connection dropping

gromet — Fri, 08 Oct 2021 09:43:18 GMT

Looking at the visual radius, the logs match up with it? so are just as frequent? or am I reading them wrong?

00:25:33, 08 Oct. (11440725.780000) PPPoE is down after 746 minutes uptime [Disconnected]
11:57:39, 07 Oct. (11395852.560000) PPPoE is down after 4427 minutes uptime [Waiting for Underlying Connection (WAN Ethernet 7 - Down)]
10:08:46, 04 Oct. (11130123.170000) PPPoE is down after 3560 minutes uptime [Waiting for Underlying Connection (WAN Ethernet 7 - Down)]
22:46:49, 01 Oct. (10916408.580000) PPPoE is down after 10115 minutes uptime [Waiting for Underlying Connection (WAN Ethernet 7 - Down)]
22:09:46, 24 Sep. (10309393.420000) PPPoE is down after 2654 minutes uptime [Waiting for Underlying Connection (WAN Ethernet 7 - Down)]

Normally a drop out late at night can be ignored, with working from home being a thing these days, the ones in the morning were very apparent.

Also having 2 in just over 12 hours prompted me to make this post.

Everytime i've noticed it has dropped, the Internet status on Plusnet Hub Manager screen has always stated - Disconnected.

The fireware is still showing - Plusnet Hub One | Software version 4.7.5.1.83.8.263 | Last updated 11/06/19
I can't see an option on the hub interface to update it from here, is there one?

Re: connection dropping

jab1 — Fri, 08 Oct 2021 09:46:41 GMT

@gromet The firmware update can only be done by Plusnet - @bobpullen will advise - hopefully on this topic - when it is done.

Re: connection dropping

gromet — Fri, 08 Oct 2021 09:54:21 GMT

cheers @jab1

Re: connection dropping

bobpullen — Fri, 08 Oct 2021 11:20:25 GMT

@RealAleMadrid wrote:
What I would like Plusnet to explain is the ambiguous message in the log .....

01:53:48, 23 Sep. (10150038.170000) PPP LCP Send Termination Request [User request]

which occurs prior to every loss of connection. It certainly isn't a "User request". I have never had any meaningful explanation for this message apart from it causes the connection to drop.

It doesn't cause anything. It is a response to the DSL layer being lost and is perfectly normal when a line is dropping sync.

@gromet - I concur, the graphing provided by @adam945 aligns perfectly with the router logs.

I've pushed the latest firmware to your hub but I'm not convinced it will help. You'll need to restart your router to apply it.

If interference is causing your line to drop, then being on a sub 6dB target margin isn't going to help. Another thing we could try if you continue to experience problems is to move you to a more stable line management policy. That may over time cause the SNR to rise which would provide some extra stability (at the sacrifice of a little speed).

Re: connection dropping

Baldrick1 — Fri, 08 Oct 2021 11:25:28 GMT

@RealAleMadrid wrote:

My line actually runs perfectly well at 80Mbps downstream with 1.8dB SNRM, the target value is 3dB but for other reasons the actual margin is lower.

Be wary here. On one occasion I was having download speed problems but when I checked my sync speed was actually higher than normal. I then noticed that my hub was 'happily' running with a 1.8dB SNR. Presumably the DLM was either 'stuck' or I got to it before it automatically did it's thing. A reboot of the hub brought the SNR back to 3dB and the actual download speed increased to normal.

I put the speed drop down to the low SNR introducing continuous multiple errors, all of which needed retransmission, ending up with less correct data getting through. Hence in my case, too low a SNR reduces actual download. Obviously if the SNR is too high that will also slow the sync speed (unless of course you live next to the cabinet and the sync speed is running at its maximum rate with a high SNR).

Re: connection dropping

gromet — Fri, 08 Oct 2021 13:29:05 GMT

@bobpullen thanks, i've rebooted and now shows updated version

not sure i want to look at sacrificing anymore speed

this was run from PC connected to router via ethernet.

I'll take laptop and connect direct to plusnet hub via ethernet now. I'll disconnect my nighthawk and run it again see what it says

Re: connection dropping

gromet — Fri, 08 Oct 2021 13:48:25 GMT

Sorry, my speeds are fine from plusnet hub

QoS - antibuffer bloat was set on the nighthawk capping at 70% connection speed (42Mbps/11.2Mbps)

So if moving to a more stable line management policy would help with the disconnects then I'm happy to give that a go.

Although before we do anything like that, are the number of disconnects i'm seeing considered acceptable amounts? What is considered fair regarding number of connection drops?

Don't want to be that person moaning about something that isn't actually considered an issue

Re: connection dropping

RealAleMadrid — Fri, 08 Oct 2021 14:09:53 GMT

@bobpullen Poor word choice by me. I know the message is in response to the connection dropping, it is the confusing "user request" part that I object to.

@Baldrick1 There is no problem with my downstream throughput speed. The reason the margin is low is because after an area power cut my HG612 modem syncs up with a 3dB margin then as other users' modems come back the margin drops but my line runs reliably at the reduced margin. If I restart the modem manually it will sync at around 76Mbps with 3dB margin however, power cuts seem to be fairly frequent in my semi-rural area so I am usually running at the full 80Mbps.

Re: connection dropping

Baldrick1 — Fri, 08 Oct 2021 15:08:50 GMT

@RealAleMadrid

That's fine. I just want to make the point to other readers that a 80Mbps sync speed and a 1.8dB SNR is not by definition better that 76Mbps and 3dB.

In my case it most certainly isn't. I can't remember the exact figures but I think that the 1.8dB SNR and slightly higher sync speed resulted in my actual download speed about halving compared with 3dB.

Re: connection dropping

Mav — Tue, 12 Oct 2021 01:52:24 GMT

@gromet wrote:

not sure what happened to my first post

Moderator's note by Mike (Mav): Post got caught in the Spam Filter which has been released then removed as duplicate.

Re: connection dropping

BD — Tue, 12 Oct 2021 15:10:11 GMT

Hi @gromet, in regards to the drops we're seeing from this side. It does look like you were seeing drops of more than 3 times in 24 hours as seen by the graph below which warrants us raising a fault on our suppliers side however, the last 4 days has shown a stable connection.

I'd advise then, monitoring the connection moving forwards and should you see the drops look to return then please get back to us and we'll happily help progress this further for you.

Re: connection dropping

gromet — Fri, 22 Oct 2021 18:26:48 GMT

I've been away for a week but left everything on in the house

I've checked the router logs and its not dropped since the 8th October, which was when i rebooted the router for the fireware update.

I'll keep monitoring from my end but looks like the issues i had over that few weeks may be resolved.

thanks for all the help and info

Re: connection dropping

LaurenB — Sat, 23 Oct 2021 07:09:03 GMT

Thanks for getting back to us @gromet with an update. Let us know how things go!