topic Re: Internet Loses connection every night around midnight to 1am in Full Fibre

Internet Loses connection every night around midnight to 1am

cwaite — Mon, 23 Sep 2019 07:53:07 GMT

I have noticed for the past few nights my internet has lost connection between 12am and 1am, the first time my download speed when up from around 28 to 30 then the following night it dropped to around 27, last night it dropped again and it looks like my line has now been banded to 24.9, can someone look into this for me and tell me why it keeps going off, normally my connection is solid and stays connected for months.

Re: Internet Loses connection every night around midnight to 1am

LordFoul — Mon, 23 Sep 2019 11:02:30 GMT

Hi @cwaite,

Thanks for getting in touch.

I'm sorry that you have had problems with your broadband, I appreciate you questioning the connection and speed.

Your connection does not show any drops for any length of time so the issue may be routine however given the regular timings it could be caused by interference. If it is Wi-Fi this could be down to strong lights, microwaves etc.

Please can you establish whether using wired connections (i.e. an Ethernet cable) makes any difference. If it is just Wi-Fi, you may find the following troubleshooting link useful: http://goo.gl/YuPPSP.

To save you calling, you can also get in touch with our Technical Support Team via their live web-chat further down the page (please note that this will require your browser to allow pop-up windows and is subject to agent availability at peak times).

If you continue to experience problems, please come back to us.

Thanks - LF

Re: Internet Loses connection every night around midnight to 1am

cwaite — Mon, 23 Sep 2019 11:17:02 GMT

I am using ethernet on my computer, I also have DSL monitoring software running and can see that my line dropped and re-synced at just after 00:56 last night, this is not a wifi issue. It has happened around the same time each night (with the exception of Saturday night/Sunday Morning). As you can also see my line has been banded at 24998kbps my attainable rate is 27928kbps.

Please can someone investigate why this is happening and why the line has been banded, Openreach have been out a few times over the years and the past few times, have found a join at the bottom of the pole has become corroded and ended up cutting the wire back and rejoining it, as the nights are getting damp again I wouldn't mind betting its this problem again.

Re: Internet Loses connection every night around midnight to 1am

OskarPapa — Mon, 23 Sep 2019 14:07:47 GMT

Thanks for getting back to us, @cwaite.

On checking the connection our side, we can't see an actual fault with the line and can see that it isn't banded:

GEA Test Detail
Circuit ID	NA	Service ID	<REDACTED>


Test Outcome	Pass
Test Outcome Code	GTC_FTTC_SERVICE_0000
Description	GEA service test completed and no fault found .
Main Fault Location	OK
Sync Status	In Sync
Downstream Speed	23.9 Mbps
Upstream Speed	4.5 Mbps
Appointment Required	N
Fault Report Advised	N
NTE Power Status	PowerOn
Voice Line Test Result	Pass
Bridge Tap	Not Detected
Radio Frequency Ingress	Not Detected
Repetitive Electrical Impulse Noise	Not Detected
Cross Talk	Not Detected
Estimated Line Length In Metres	1256.0
Upstream Rate Assessment	Good
Downstream Rate Assessment	Good
Interference Pattern	Regular Interference Observed Daily
Service Impact	No Impact Observed
Interference Duration Longest Occurrence	From18:00to23:00
Interference Location	Customer Premise
Interference Observed In Days	0
Home Wiring Problem	Not Detected
Downstream Policing Discard Rate	0.0
Customer Traffic Level	Upstream and Downstream Traffic Detected
Technology	VDSL
Current 15Min Bin Retrains	0
Last 15Min Bin Retrains	0
DP Type	External
Profile Name	0.128M-40M Downstream, Retransmission High - 0.128M-10M Upstream, Error Protection Off
Time Stamp	2019-09-10T14:45:00

Parameters	MIN	MAX	AVG
Down Stream Line Rate	21.9 Mbps	30.6 Mbps	28.3 Mbps
Up Stream Line Rate	3.3 Mbps	5.1 Mbps	3.8 Mbps
Up Time	3.0 Sec	900.0 Sec	897.5 Sec
Retrains	0.0	2.0	0.0

Current and Last 15 Minute Bin Performance
Parameters	Last Traffic Count(Upto 15 mins)	Current Traffic Count(Upto 15 mins)
Start Time Stamp	2019-09-23T13:25:23Z	2019-09-23T13:40:23Z
Ingress Code Violation	1	0
Egress Code Violation	0	0
Errored Seconds	0	0
Severely Errored Seconds	0	0
Unavailable Seconds	0	0

The only thing of concern in the above table is the line length, which would explain the line estimates of 20.4 - 30.2 mbps.

We can confirm that the drops in connection do appear to be happening at the same time which could potentially indicate an RFI or REIN issue, although we aren't detecting either of those at this stage.

As there is no fault and the level of drops are not occurring to a fault level, for the moment we'd advise accessing the test socket and continuing to monitor for the next 24 or so hours. If we see a further drop tonight or in the morning we'd then have hit the fault threshold and be able to raise the issue to our suppliers.

We would also recommend speaking with your phone line provider and having them run a line test to see if there are any issues that side.

Please let us know how it goes over the next 24 hours with your connection in the test socket as shown here.

Re: Internet Loses connection every night around midnight to 1am

cwaite — Mon, 23 Sep 2019 14:51:24 GMT

OK, I will monitor and see what happens, strange thing is my line was measured by and Openreach engineer on his laptop and he said that my line was about 650 meters.

You state my line is not banded but as you can see from the Modem stats the Modem is saying the my attainable rate is around 28.3 mbps but I am only connecting at 24.9mbps, so what's stopping it connecting near or above my attainable rate like it normally does?

Re: Internet Loses connection every night around midnight to 1am

Optimatts — Mon, 23 Sep 2019 15:23:03 GMT

Hi there @cwaite

Given your speed estimates I'd be very much doubtful that your line length is under 1000m. It may be that his quote of 650m was from your property to the distribution point or cabinet. Which seems more likely.

Your max attainable rate is generally misleading, as it shows your estimated line speed but on a completely clean and noise free line.

These circumstances are generally rare, again considering a long line length is more prone to minor interference.

Re: Internet Loses connection every night around midnight to 1am

cwaite — Mon, 23 Sep 2019 15:33:18 GMT

Yes thats right my line is around 650m to the Cabinet, isn't that where its measured to on VDSL broadband (going on the basis the closer you are to the cabinet the faster sync you should have), I thought the distance to the exchange was only relevant on ADSL Connections?

Normally my line will sync slightly higher than the attainable rate, below is a capture of the DSL Stats from before the problem started, the solid line is the Sync Rate and the other line is the attainable rate which is normally slight lower than my actual sync rate. Are you sure my line has not been banded as 24998kpbs seems a significant figure and if I reboot/disconnect the modem like I had to earlier to make sure I am plugged into the test socket, it reconnects at exactly the same rate 24998kpbs whereas normally if I reboot or disconnect it will reconnect at a different rate.

Re: Internet Loses connection every night around midnight to 1am

MatthewWheeler — Mon, 23 Sep 2019 15:47:00 GMT

Thanks for getting back to us @cwaite.

I can confirm that your current sync speed isn't down to your line being banded as your current DLM profile is "Downstream: 0.128M-27.4M with Retransmission (High). Upstream: 0.128M-10M with no error protection" which means your router can connect at any rate from 0.128mbps to 27.4mbps depending on the line, errors and so on.

As my other colleagues have said I wouldn't worry about the max attainable rate as this is just an estimate of what the router could connect at on a perfect line. For example, some routers show the max attainable rate as higher than the products our suppliers offer such as showing attainable rates of 100mbps for downstream and 25mbps for upstream.

Re: Internet Loses connection every night around midnight to 1am

minted — Mon, 23 Sep 2019 16:20:35 GMT

Matthew I suggest you re-read your own GEA Test.
The line profile on EVERY SINGLE GEA test is 13 days old.

Re run the OP's GEA test in 13 days time and you will see a line profile of 0-25Mb.

Stats scream banding. I'll eat paddy's hat if it isn't.

edit: perhaps train the staff to the fact GEA tests show a line profile that's 13 days old.
They have for a number of years at least (if not always).

Re: Internet Loses connection every night around midnight to 1am

cwaite — Mon, 23 Sep 2019 16:40:36 GMT

I have been told the same as above @minted on Kitz forum that they think my line is banded but your GEA test is usually 13 days out of date. This is why you are not seeing that my line is banded, would this be correct? If is please could you re-run the GEA Test as per @minted suggestion in 13 days time.

Also, profile name shows 0.128M-40M Downstream, Retransmission High - 0.128M-10M Upstream, Error Protection Off this differs from your 0.128M-27.4M with Retransmission (High)

@MatthewWheeler as I said before last night my sync rate was always higher than the attainable rate, so something has happened to my line, for it to be banded significantly lower than what is has been for many years.

Re: Internet Loses connection every night around midnight to 1am

RandallFlagg — Mon, 23 Sep 2019 17:03:26 GMT

Hi @cwaite

Matt pulled the info from a different system to the GEA test and I can confirm that it is up to date.

For what it's worth, the info on this thread here confirms the speed that you're getting is in line with the length of your connection. As such, I'd agree with my colleagues that your line is not banded.

Please let us know how you get on with monitoring the connection drops.

Best wishes

Dave

Re: Internet Loses connection every night around midnight to 1am

minted — Mon, 23 Sep 2019 17:18:21 GMT

Nonsense.

Re-run the GEA test in 13 days.

Line is banded by DLM at 25Mb.

edit: GEA test showed
Downstream: 0.128M-40M with Retransmission (High).

Matthews post showed Downstream: 0.128M-27.4M with Retransmission (High).

Banded at 27.4Mb
Banding is now down to 25Mb so even alternative test it out of date.

Re: Internet Loses connection every night around midnight to 1am

cwaite — Mon, 23 Sep 2019 17:32:16 GMT

I still cant believe that from the stats I have showed that PN as still saying the line is not banded, so blindingly obvious due to my modems sync speed of 24998kpbs, as I said its stuck at that speed event when rebooting the modem, also the attainable rate is always lower than my actual sync speed, this is how its been for many years since G.INP was activated on my line.

Re: Internet Loses connection every night around midnight to 1am

cwaite — Tue, 24 Sep 2019 08:58:02 GMT

Just been browsing away and noticed that my browser said it could not find the page, checked the modem and it had lost the sync again, once again its reconnected at the same speed 24998kbps which would indicate the line is banded although you say its not!

Please could you explain why the GEA Test showed the profile as Downstream: 0.128M-40M with Retransmission (High) and Matthews alternative Test showed the profile as Downstream: 0.128M-27.4M with Retransmission (High), does this not indicate the line is banded?

As I said normally my line will go many months without a resync since last Thursday its resynced several times, something is definitely not right on the line.

Here are my DSL Logs which have been recording since 12th September as you can see since 19th September, I have had intermittent loss of sync

12 Sep 2019 16:58:06   Recording started

12 Sep 2019 16:58:14   IP address is now 212.159.23.161
12 Sep 2019 17:07:09   Unable to login to modem/router
12 Sep 2019 17:08:09   DSL connection restored. SNRMup = 6.1 dB, SNRMdown = 6.4 dB
12 Sep 2019 20:52:09   Incorrect login name or password
12 Sep 2019 21:37:09   Unable to login to modem/router
12 Sep 2019 21:39:09   Unable to login to modem/router
12 Sep 2019 22:06:09   Unable to login to modem/router
12 Sep 2019 22:07:09   Unable to login to modem/router
12 Sep 2019 22:13:09   Unable to login to modem/router
12 Sep 2019 22:21:09   Unable to login to modem/router
13 Sep 2019 17:00:10   Deleted snapshots in folder E:\OneDrive\HG612DSLStats\2019-08-12
14 Sep 2019 17:01:10   Deleted snapshots in folder E:\OneDrive\HG612DSLStats\2019-08-13
15 Sep 2019 17:01:10   Deleted snapshots in folder E:\OneDrive\HG612DSLStats\2019-08-14
16 Sep 2019 17:01:10   Deleted snapshots in folder E:\OneDrive\HG612DSLStats\2019-08-15
17 Sep 2019 17:02:10   Deleted snapshots in folder E:\OneDrive\HG612DSLStats\2019-08-16
18 Sep 2019 17:02:10   Deleted snapshots in folder E:\OneDrive\HG612DSLStats\2019-08-17
19 Sep 2019 00:53:07   No DSL connection
19 Sep 2019 00:54:07   No DSL connection
19 Sep 2019 00:55:07   Unable to collect stats 3 or more times in succession
19 Sep 2019 00:55:07   No DSL connection
19 Sep 2019 00:56:07   No DSL connection
19 Sep 2019 00:57:07   No DSL connection
19 Sep 2019 00:58:07   No DSL connection
19 Sep 2019 00:59:07   No DSL connection
19 Sep 2019 01:00:07   No DSL connection
19 Sep 2019 01:01:07   No DSL connection
19 Sep 2019 01:02:07   No DSL connection
19 Sep 2019 01:03:07   No DSL connection
19 Sep 2019 01:04:07   No DSL connection
19 Sep 2019 01:05:07   No DSL connection
19 Sep 2019 01:06:07   No DSL connection
19 Sep 2019 01:07:09   DSL connection restored. SNRMup = 6.0 dB, SNRMdown = 6.4 dB
19 Sep 2019 17:03:10   Deleted snapshots in folder E:\OneDrive\HG612DSLStats\2019-08-18
20 Sep 2019 00:23:07   No DSL connection
20 Sep 2019 00:24:09   DSL connection restored. SNRMup = 6.3 dB, SNRMdown = 6.4 dB
20 Sep 2019 00:24:10   Email alert sent: "Alert: Modem/router re-sync"
20 Sep 2019 08:46:09   DSL connection restored. SNRMup = 6.1 dB, SNRMdown = 6.4 dB
20 Sep 2019 17:03:10   Deleted snapshots in folder E:\OneDrive\HG612DSLStats\2019-08-19
21 Sep 2019 05:31:09   DSL connection restored. SNRMup = 6.1 dB, SNRMdown = 6.4 dB
21 Sep 2019 05:31:10   Email alert sent: "Alert: Modem/router re-sync"
21 Sep 2019 17:04:10   Deleted snapshots in folder E:\OneDrive\HG612DSLStats\2019-08-20
22 Sep 2019 17:05:10   Deleted snapshots in folder E:\OneDrive\HG612DSLStats\2019-08-21
23 Sep 2019 01:00:09   DSL connection restored. SNRMup = 6.1 dB, SNRMdown = 7.6 dB
23 Sep 2019 08:42:09   Unable to login to modem/router
23 Sep 2019 08:43:09   DSL connection restored. SNRMup = 6.2 dB, SNRMdown = 8.1 dB
23 Sep 2019 08:44:09   Unable to login to modem/router
23 Sep 2019 08:45:09   DSL connection restored. SNRMup = 6.1 dB, SNRMdown = 8.1 dB
23 Sep 2019 16:09:09   Unable to login to modem/router
23 Sep 2019 16:10:07   No DSL connection
23 Sep 2019 16:11:10   DSL connection restored. SNRMup = 6.3 dB, SNRMdown = 8.2 dB
23 Sep 2019 16:11:10   Email alert sent: "Alert: Modem/router re-sync"
23 Sep 2019 17:05:10   Deleted snapshots in folder E:\OneDrive\HG612DSLStats\2019-08-22
24 Sep 2019 09:44:10   DSL connection restored. SNRMup = 6.1 dB, SNRMdown = 8.1 dB
24 Sep 2019 09:44:10   Email alert sent: "Alert: Modem/router re-sync"

Re: Internet Loses connection every night around midnight to 1am

Gandalf — Tue, 24 Sep 2019 09:26:56 GMT

Thanks for getting back to us @cwaite

As per Matt's response, the system called RRT(Reactive Repair Tool) which shows more in-depth information is more reliable when viewing banding than a GEA test and that showed the banding at 27.4mbps yesterday.

Ultimately if the BT systems don't show a sync speed to be restricted by banding then we cannot request a DLM reset. We've checked the RRT tool again and that is now showing your line to be banded at 25mbps.

A GEA Test is showing your sync rate at 23.9mbps however based on the banding we're seeing and the sync rate of your router, we've raised a request for a DLM reset which should go through within the next 2 working days.

Having said that, if your line is retraining then I'd recommend raising a fault to us at http://faults.plus.net so we can arrange an engineer to investigate this, because there'd be an underlying issue behind the retrains and the banding.

With that in mind, it's very likely that even if the request we've raised for our suppliers to manually remove the banding is successful, it's likely to be re-applied by DLM automatically if the retrains continue. Thank you.

Re: Internet Loses connection every night around midnight to 1am

cwaite — Tue, 24 Sep 2019 10:18:52 GMT

Thank you @Gandalf, unfortunately, this week and next I will be unable wait in for an Openreach Engineer, I will see what happens after the DLM reset then if the resyncs continue will raise a fault next week.

Re: Internet Loses connection every night around midnight to 1am

Gandalf — Tue, 24 Sep 2019 11:01:34 GMT

No problem, let us know how it goes over the next few days.

Re: Internet Loses connection every night around midnight to 1am

cwaite — Tue, 24 Sep 2019 12:07:20 GMT

I walked passed the cabinet that I am connected to this morning a Huawei 288 /384HD FTTC cabinet and that an extension pod has been added to the side (like the one in the Picture below, please note this is not the actual picture of the cab I am connected to but it looks identical) its only been added within the last week as I do walk past it at least once a week, and the new shiny pod sticks out like a sore thumb due to the fading paintwork on the cabinet.

Putting 2 and 2 together it seems likely that my problems started when this was fitted or activated as you can see from the Graph below my connection was lost from 00:53 to 01:07 on 19th September, it came back at over 30mbps which is much higher than usual (but has obviously since dropped and been banded). I can only assume this work they needed to shut down the cab to activate or connect up the extra ports that I am assuming are in this pod.

Re: Internet Loses connection every night around midnight to 1am

Gandalf — Tue, 24 Sep 2019 13:06:56 GMT

Thanks for getting back to us @cwaite

It's possible that the recent work at the cabinet had started the disconnections, but it'd be difficult to say until we've sent an engineer out and as line tests aren't showing any external causes, the only way we'd be able to progress a fault with our suppliers would be by arranging an appointment unfortunately.

Re: Internet Loses connection every night around midnight to 1am

cwaite — Thu, 31 Oct 2019 20:14:39 GMT

On 19th September work commenced to add more capacity to the FTTC Cabinet I am connected to, that night it appears everyone that is connected to that cab lost connection for about 10 minutes, over the course of the next few nights every other night my connection would drop at some point in the early hours of the morning every other night (normally my lines stays connected for months at a time), in the end my line was banded to 24998kbps, @Gandalf kindly performed a remote DLM reset, but again my line still continued to drop due to a large number (600) of CRC errors occurring for 1 second every other night, I would guess this was electrical interference, as whenever we have a thunderstorm here the lightning causes the same sort of error and also knocks my VDSL out, work has still been continuing at the cabinet and on 13th October the original age old telephone cabinet was replaced with a larger cabinet to accommodate the extra connections, then a few days later some cabling works were carried out to connect the new ports from the FTTC cabinet to the new Telephone cabinet, as far as I can tell all of the works are now complete and I have been monitoring the line using DSL Stats 6.5 and it does appear that the errors have now virtually stopped but on the odd occasion when the errors CRC errors occur they are much less than they were (around 80 CRC errors for 1 second).

As it looks like all the works have now been completed and the fact that the errors are less frequent and not as severe would someone be kind enough to do a remote DLM reset on my line to lift the banding to see if the problem has been solved.