topic Re: Master Socket issues and speed tests in Full Fibre

Master Socket issues and speed tests

pharrison1984 — Thu, 12 Sep 2019 11:11:57 GMT

Hoping someone (admin?) can offer some guidance on this.

I have had my router connected to an extension socket in the house since we moved in 7 years ago. I have always had slower than advertised speeds, and that has been no different with Plusnet.

I should have a bare minimum line speed of 34mbps, with an estimate of 39 - 54. The email I got from Plusnet shortly after sign up said I was getting 29, but in reality it's often around 25.

I took the step last night of testing the router in the master socket, which happens to be no more than about 2.5m from where I already had it plugged in, in a different corner of the living room. I understood that was the probable cause of the slow speeds.

Disappointingly, when plugged in the Master socket before removing the faceplate, I got practically the same results as previous.

However, when plugged into the test socket, after removing the faceplate, upload speeds doubled from around 3mbps to 6mbps, and download increased (albeit more modestly) to around 34-35mbps. That would be acceptable for now at least (and is above the minimum guaranteed speed). I'm currently considering buying a UHD TV and my main wish is to be able to watch Netflix in UHD, for which they recommend 25mbps, and I want there to be spare bandwith for other users, and to avoid buffering.

I attach a photograph of the exposed Master socket. I figure that the problem I have must be with the wiring visible in that photo? Is that the likely cause? It doesn't appear to be in the best of condition (for example, metal exposed in the wires). If so, who is responsible for that wiring? Plusnet, Openreach, or me? Is there a quick and easy fix? Any advice appreciated.

Re: Master Socket issues and speed tests

bmc — Thu, 12 Sep 2019 11:36:54 GMT

@pharrison1984

Using the test socket eliminates all internal wiring. Your test appears to indicate that there is something wrong "indoors" so to speak - which is your responsibility.

One possibility is the "Bell" wire is still attached - search the internet for BT phone socket wiring. The Bell wire can cause interference.

Another thing you could do is replace the face plate on the Master socket (and the extension if that's where you want your router). This has the advantage of "re-wiring" your extensions plus has an in built filter.

I did mine using ADSL Nation equipment but there are other choices

https://www.adslnation.com/products/index.php

Note they have wiring diagrams available to view.

Brian

Re: Master Socket issues and speed tests

pharrison1984 — Thu, 12 Sep 2019 11:46:26 GMT

Thanks for the quick response Brian. I had read up on the bellwire and think I'll try that first. I'd read conflicting reports as to whether that had an effect anymore on newer Fibre lines but got to be worth a try!

Re: Master Socket issues and speed tests

OskarPapa — Thu, 12 Sep 2019 12:24:39 GMT

Hi @pharrison1984, thanks for your fault.

Whilst wiring may be at least a partial cause, we have tested the line and located a fault, as seen below:

GEA Test Detail
Circuit ID	NA	Service ID


Test Outcome	Fail
Test Outcome Code	GTC_FTTC_SERVICE_1615
Description	Potential HR Joint or wet joint detected on GEA Service. Please continue to submit a trouble report
Main Fault Location	CE
Sync Status	In Sync
Downstream Speed	38.1 Mbps
Upstream Speed	7.0 Mbps
Appointment Required	Y
Fault Report Advised	Y
NTE Power Status	PowerOn
Voice Line Test Result	Pass
Bridge Tap	Detected
Radio Frequency Ingress	Not Detected
Repetitive Electrical Impulse Noise	Not Detected
Cross Talk	Detected
Estimated Line Length In Metres	721.1
Upstream Rate Assessment	Low
Downstream Rate Assessment	Low
Interference Pattern	Regular Interference Observed on Week Days
Service Impact	Retrains Observed
Interference Duration Longest Occurrence	From20:00to20:15
Interference Location	Customer Premise
Interference Observed In Days	0
Home Wiring Problem	Not Detected
Technology	VDSL
Profile Name	0.128M-40M Downstream 3dB, Retransmission High - 0.128M-10M Upstream, Error Protection Off
Time Stamp	2019-08-30T13:15:00

Parameters	MIN	MAX	AVG
Down Stream Line Rate	29.8 Mbps	39.9 Mbps	31.3 Mbps
Up Stream Line Rate	3.6 Mbps	6.9 Mbps	3.8 Mbps
Up Time	0.0 Sec	900.0 Sec	898.4 Sec
Retrains	0.0	1.0	0.0

Current and Last 15 Minute Bin Performance
Parameters	Last Traffic Count(Upto 15 mins)	Current Traffic Count(Upto 15 mins)
Start Time Stamp	2019-09-12T11:51:20Z	2019-09-12T12:06:20Z
Ingress Code Violation	1	0
Egress Code Violation	0	0
Errored Seconds	0	0
Severely Errored Seconds	0	0
Unavailable Seconds	0	0

Due to the above, I've raised the issue with BT Wholesale and they tell us that we're going to need to arrange for an engineer visit.

I've just opened a fault ticket on your account which we do need a response to, you can access this below:

https://www.plus.net/wizard/?p=view_question&id=194069922

Please let me know here once you've responded to the ticket and we'll progress the issue ASAP for you.

Re: Master Socket issues and speed tests

Baldrick1 — Thu, 12 Sep 2019 14:18:35 GMT

e@pharrison1984

Your current arrangement of taking extensions off the Master socket then connecting the router to an extension is simply asking for speed problems.

The ideal solution is replace the faceplate with a VDSL specified filtered faceplate such as https://www.lindy.co.uk/cables-adapters-c1/vdsl2-microfilter-faceplate-p8905/s9063?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=vdsl2-microfilter-faceplate&utm_campaign=product%2Blisting%2Bads&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI--72lLrL5AIViLTtCh00ZgnREAQYBSABEgIRavD_BwE note that the ADSL Nation products are not specified for VDSL. You will then need to leave the modem plugged in to the filtered socket. With this set up you do not need to use micro filters.

Also leave any orange bell wire connections off as they are not needed with modern phones and can introduce noise.

Re: Master Socket issues and speed tests

pharrison1984 — Thu, 12 Sep 2019 15:06:15 GMT

Yes I've always known that to be an issue since I moved in, but equally I can see why it was done by previous occupants given the position of the Master. What was a surprise was plugging into the Master socket without removing the faceplate didn't solve it. Is it possible that the extension is still interfering with that connection? I think I'm going with admin's suggestion of having an engineer look at it given their line test results (see above), though there's a risk of that costing me £65. I'll probably remove the bellwire tonight though and cancel if that sorts it.

Re: Master Socket issues and speed tests

Baldrick1 — Thu, 12 Sep 2019 15:30:17 GMT

It’s possible that you have two problems here. I doubt that it’s just the bell wire. Were you plugged in to the test socket when Plusnet did their testing?

A bit back I had a friend with similar internal wiring as you. He was synchronising at 4Mbps. After fitting a filtered faceplate and removing bell wires this increased to a stable 23 Mbps.

I suggest that you leave it in the test socket configuration until your problem is fixed.

The other thing to ask yourself is if you really need extension cables. As I have wireless phones with the base unit located at the master socket I have removed all of mine.

Re: Master Socket issues and speed tests

Baldrick1 — Thu, 12 Sep 2019 15:42:58 GMT

@OskarPapa

If you read @pharrison1984 description of his original configuration, that is, he is bridging extensions off his master socket upstream of his router then could this.be the bridge tap reported in the GEA test and therefore also that the HR joint could be in his home? Is it worth checking this again after @pharrison1984 confirms that he is plugged in to the test socket before committing to an engineer visit?

Re: Master Socket issues and speed tests

RandallFlagg — Thu, 12 Sep 2019 16:16:16 GMT

Hi @Baldrick1 and @pharrison1984

I think that is sound advice - please let us know how this looks once you're in the test socket. We're happy to retest as required.

Best wishes

Dave

Re: Master Socket issues and speed tests

pharrison1984 — Thu, 12 Sep 2019 16:33:22 GMT

It is currently in the test socket and was for the line test carried out above (hence the download speed reporting at a relatively healthy 39mbps). So I don't think it is the extension causing those reported faults. Equally it appears those faults don't seem to be the primary cause of the differences in speeds I described in my initial post! Seems I have both internal and external issues

Re: Master Socket issues and speed tests

Gandalf — Thu, 12 Sep 2019 17:27:38 GMT

Thanks for getting back to us @pharrison1984

By connecting your router into the test socket, that should automatically disconnect the internal wiring of your property ruling out any issues with that unless it's star-wiring, but if that's the case there's very little you can do.

Star wiring is an ancient form of wiring where there's usually no master socket or more than one master socket and no easy way of bypassing the wiring without isolating it with a renewed master socket as far as I'm aware.

Line tests are still showing that high resistance or wet joint fault, so I think at this stage it'd be a good idea to get an engineer arranged to investigate further so I've booked the appointment for tomorrow afternoon between 1pm and 6pm.

Let us know how it goes.

Re: Master Socket issues and speed tests

pharrison1984 — Thu, 12 Sep 2019 17:51:15 GMT

Anoush I have messaged you via account to say tomorrow afternoon is too short notice for me to arrange for someone to be in.

In meantime I've attached close up of master socket. There are multiple wires in the 'bellwire' slot - green and orange. Can anyone advise whether I can safely remove both?

Re: Master Socket issues and speed tests

frosty8 — Thu, 12 Sep 2019 18:06:57 GMT

I think the only wires you need are the blue/white and white/blue in 2 and 5 but wait for others to reply.

Re: Master Socket issues and speed tests

bmc — Thu, 12 Sep 2019 18:32:36 GMT

@pharrison1984

Looking at the Kitz site it appears you have a pre 2007 NTE5a A face plate

https://kitz.co.uk/adsl/btsockets.htm

How many phone extension sockets do you have in your house?

Looking ahead to the engineer visit - if they require access to your house they'll probably (but no guarantee!!!) fit a new face plate as a matter of course and sort the wiring out at the same time.

Edit - I would suggest leaving things well alone until the engineer has been and gone.

Brian

Re: Master Socket issues and speed tests

pharrison1984 — Thu, 12 Sep 2019 18:41:20 GMT

Thanks Brian. My thoughts too. Router getting hooked back up to the extension for the time being.....

Re: Master Socket issues and speed tests

Gandalf — Thu, 12 Sep 2019 19:39:19 GMT

Thanks for getting back to us @pharrison1984

No problem. I've changed the appointment date next Wednesday afternoon.

Let us know how it goes.

Re: Master Socket issues and speed tests

pharrison1984 — Wed, 18 Sep 2019 17:08:14 GMT

An update. Had the visit from Vishal today at Openreach. He's moved the master socket and fitted a new faceplate and tidied unnecessary additional wiring. Results admittedly not as hoped. Upload speeds now much higher than before at 7mbps as opposed to 3.5, and latency a lot lower, but download speed still around the 30mbps mark - lower than the minimum speed I was told I should be getting at outset and only marginally faster than previous (in fact slower than when I was plugged into the service line). Vishal said he was now happy with all the wiring, so seemingly that's the best I'm going to do? Anoush are you able to run the line tests again? It's now looking like we're moving house in February and so I'll cope with it as it is.

Re: Master Socket issues and speed tests

Gandalf — Wed, 18 Sep 2019 17:22:27 GMT

Thanks for getting back to us @pharrison1984

I'm glad to see that the engineer has tidied things up for you and managed to improve your upload speed. Line tests are passing now, but your download speed as you've said is still definitely below where we'd expect.

Test Outcome	Pass
Test Outcome Code	GTC_FTTC_SERVICE_0000
Description	GEA service test completed and no fault found .
Main Fault Location	OK
Sync Status	In Sync
Downstream Speed	33.2 Mbps
Upstream Speed	7.5 Mbps
Appointment Required	N
Fault Report Advised	N
NTE Power Status	PowerOn
Voice Line Test Result	Pass
Bridge Tap	Not Detected
Radio Frequency Ingress	Not Detected
Repetitive Electrical Impulse Noise	Not Detected
Cross Talk	Not Detected
Technology	VDSL
Current 15Min Bin Retrains	0
Last 15Min Bin Retrains	0

Current and Last 15 Minute Bin Performance
Parameters	Last Traffic Count(Upto 15 mins)	Current Traffic Count(Upto 15 mins)
Start Time Stamp	2019-09-18T16:51:59Z	2019-09-18T17:06:59Z
Ingress Code Violation	0	0
Egress Code Violation	0	0
Errored Seconds	0	0
Severely Errored Seconds	0	0
Unavailable Seconds	0	0

It's up to you how you'd want to proceed at this point, we can either arrange another engineer escalating this with our suppliers specifically requesting a multi-skilled engineer to carry out all quality checks and a thorough investigation.

Or again as you've said you can live with it until you move house and hopefully your broadband in your new house fares better. Feel free to let me know if you'd want us to arrange another engineer and we'll be happy to.