topic Re: FTTP WI-FI Speed Expectations in Full Fibre

FTTP WI-FI Speed Expectations

bullybeef73 — Fri, 05 May 2023 17:19:46 GMT

Good evening all,

I'm new to FTTP - it was only installed on April 21st, and my Wi-Fi speeds are all over the place. I am on the Full Fibre 900, with min guarantee estimate of 500mbs.

So, at first an ethernet connection kept dropping below 100mbs until researched I needed to purchase a Cat6 ethernet cable, something I wasnt advised of beforehand. Yet, all of my Wi-Fi devices are well below the minimum 500mbs; 2.4ghz devices are under 40mbs, ~50mbs on the PS5, ~200mbs on a few 5ghz/5G phones, and my laptop tops out at ~400mbs. Our home is a small premises, and the Wi-Fi speeds don't differ whether I'm in a bedroom or next to the router on the ground floor(Hub2).

But I've also noticed my Wi-Fi Link Speed would drop below 100mbs on my 5G handset. I have to turn the Wi-Fi settings off & on until it increases again. Incidentally, the Link Speed on my handset seems to top out at 433mbs, but I get nowhere near that on any speed test on various sites.

I've made Plusnet aware of this a few times now, and although been promised a call back to possibly arrange a engineer visit, I'm still yet to receive one. Every time I call, I'm told to wait for a call back. A Right to Leave notice has been added to my account for June 3rd (I wasn't verbally told this), so I'm concerned whether this would give them enough time to discover the problem and hopefully rectify it.

This is based upon the fact I signed up on March 9th, my install date was April 4th, but the engineer couldn't complete the install because he couldn't climb to pole without a hoist. I was switched on on April 21st, six weeks after signing up. And curiously my bill date began on March 9th - I was being billed for Full Fibre before I had it. Plus the engineer didn't refill the hole in drilled in my wall to secure his ladder. All in all, I am pretty disillusioned at the moment.

So my simple question is, what Wi-Fi speeds should I expect on Full Fibre 900? Just to add, my neighbour also switched to FTTP at the same time and was eager to show me his Wi-Fi speeds topping 900mbs on my doorstep.

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Re: FTTP WI-FI Speed Expectations

bmc — Fri, 05 May 2023 17:32:12 GMT

@bullybeef73

I don't understand the need for a Cat6 cable - a Cat5e would do just as well. Both cables work at the same speed but the Cat6 can carry more capacity.

The speed that matters in the first instance is at your router. Can you test it using a wired connection? If this shows the speeds near 900mbs then the problem lies your your WiFi which PN can do little about (other than general advice).

Brian

Re: FTTP WI-FI Speed Expectations

bill888 — Fri, 05 May 2023 17:49:59 GMT

Put simply, the wifi speed is determined by a number of factors. Have you read this other recent post?

https://community.plus.net/t5/Full-Fibre/Full-Fibre-speed-300-330mbps-NOT/td-p/1918151

Unless you have a Wifi-6 router and Wifi-6 devices, there is very little chance of ever getting anywhere near 900mbps in speed tests.

BT/Plusnet Smart Hub 2 are Wifi-5 routers with 4x4 wifi (ie. 4 aerials) on 5 GHz. For a premium smartphone or laptop with typical 2x2 wifi adapter (ie. 2 aerials), best speed you will see is 420 mbps with Wifi-5.

(fwiw, EE are trialling a new Wifi-6 smart hub 3 which will probably be launched later this year)

Note also the wireless link speed reported by Windows is sum total of Transmit + Receive link speeds. So if you see link speed of 866 mbps, the actual transfer speeds in either direction will be typically half this value.

Finally, ISPs do not guarantee full fibre speeds over wifi. Some may offer a minimum speed guarantee over wifi (eg. I think Sky broadband has a 2 mbps wifi guarantee in any room. Unless I'm mistaken, I don't believe Plusnet offer any minimum speed guarantee over wifi)

Who is your neighbour's ISP? Some offer wifi-6 hubs such as TalkTalk and I think Vodafone.

Re: FTTP WI-FI Speed Expectations

bullybeef73 — Fri, 05 May 2023 17:55:17 GMT

Many thanks for the swift responses.

So my neighbour's Wi-Fi speeds could be based upon what Router they are using - I think they're with BT?

Whilst speaking with Tech, I asked whether it could be a Hub issue, and they seemed reluctant to respond. I would feel so much better if I received frank and honest answers, like I have here. Thank you.

If there's little Plusnet can do to rectify my issue, why not offer to lower my tariff to an acceptable one rather than put me on on a Right to Leave notice? If they have no concern to improve something they don't deal with, why the delay?

What would be my best solutions, bearing in mind the looming Right To Leave notice, which now feels somewhat threatening?

Re: FTTP WI-FI Speed Expectations

bill888 — Fri, 05 May 2023 18:10:02 GMT

Your neighbour may be using a 3rd party wifi router? BT/Plusnet/EE don't offer Wifi-6 kit at this time.

BT and Plusnet's smart hub 2 are virtually identical.

Check if all your wifi devices support Wifi-6 (AX) for starters, and dare I suggest buy/try a new Wifi-6 AX5400 (or better) capable router. eg Asus TUF-AX5400 etc

(Old 2.4 GHz wifi devices are typically limited to 30-65mbps btw)

Also, do you really need 900 mbps over wifi ? It won't make a blind bit of difference to say Netflix....

Re: FTTP WI-FI Speed Expectations

bmc — Fri, 05 May 2023 18:16:52 GMT

@bullybeef73

To clarify my previous post.

If you are receiving close to 900mbs at the router (via a wired connection) then PN are suppling the contracted speed.

As mentioned, The BT Smart Hub2 and the PN Hub2 are basically the same. The Hub2 is a rebadged BT unit with minor software differences.

Brian

Re: FTTP WI-FI Speed Expectations

bullybeef73 — Fri, 05 May 2023 18:42:21 GMT

Thanks again.

That's some outlay just to improve Wi-Fi on top of the bill. My biggest shock was how low the speeds are on the PS5. My expectation were obviously based upon the min guarantee speed of 500mbs, which I should make clear, I'd be very content with. In fact, compared to pre-FTTP, I'd be happy with 100mbs! The reason for choosing Fibre 900 was my childrens' wishes, Clearly, we purchased something unattainable and ambitious. All I wanted was to receive what I thought I was paying for.

I supposed I shouldn't expect a call from Plusnet with regards to my issue then?

I wouldn't mind, I searched the T&Cs and cannot find any mention that the Minimum Guaranteed Speeds are only based upon Ethernet connection only. The only Ethernet cable mention I can see is to test the line to fix faults (2.1.5). It doesn't seem to differentiate between Wi-Fi/Ethernet guaranteed minimum speeds etc. I'm as surprised as anyone that it doesn't, but I am partially sighted! The T&Cs don't even mention which ethernet cable category should be used for speeds over 100mbs.

I suppose I can wait for the Right to Leave notice next month and see what my options are then. I may take a look at EE in light of their new incoming Hub.

Re: FTTP WI-FI Speed Expectations

bill888 — Fri, 05 May 2023 19:33:37 GMT

I don't own a PS5, but according to Wikipedia, PS5 appears to be a Wifi-6 (AX) device.

Is it possible the low 50 mbps wifi speed is attributed to the PS5 choosing to connect to 2.4 GHz wifi instead of 5 GHz wifi because the signal is stronger?

If you log into the smart hub 2, I 'think' it can tell you whether the PS5 is connecting using 2.4 or 5 GHz. I could be wrong as I don't personally use the smart hub 2 !

One disadvantage of the smart hub 2 is you cannot give the 2.4 and 5 GHz wifi signals different names, to allow you to decide which whether a wifi device connects to 2.4 or 5 GHz wifi.

How far is the PS5 from the Hub 2?

If the wifi signal has to pass through more than 1 internal wall/floor, and through any furniture, you can bet the wifi speeds will plummet.

If you want best gaming performance (ie. low latency), it should ideally be ethernet wired imho.

'wifi' is just a 'convenient' method of connection, it is not the 'best' method imho.

Speculation smart hub 3 may launch in July. No guarantee it will solve your PS5 wifi speed issue as it may have same flaw as smart hub 2 regarding using same wifi name for both 2.4 and 5 GHz wifi.

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/talk/threads/bt-smart-hub-3-launch.39068/

Just an idea. If you find the PS5 is using 2.4 GHz wifi, as a test, you could switch off the 2.4 GHz wifi on the Hub 2, and see whether the PS5 connects to 5 GHz wifi for greater speed?

Re: FTTP WI-FI Speed Expectations

bullybeef73 — Fri, 05 May 2023 19:59:50 GMT

Thanks for that response.

A quick search later and I've change the PS5 Network settings to 5ghz. I obviously had no idea.

2.4ghz was 49.4mbs Download/2.4mbs upload - 5ghz now 166mbs download/5.4 up. Still way below my FTTP expectations, but obviously better.

Pre-FTTP, I always understood ethernet/wired connection trumps Wi-Fi. But based upon the fact the T&Cs aren't very clear with regards to minimum guarantee speeds, I obviously assumed FTTP Wi-Fi would be at the very least around the minimum guaranteed speeds.

And nowhere was I warned otherwise - I did chat with a Plusnet adviser before purchase, who even confirmed I could lower my tariff if my speeds were low, without being fully informed Wi-Fi speeds would likely be below the 500mbs. I have to be honest I say I feel a somewhat mis-sold.

Re: FTTP WI-FI Speed Expectations

bill888 — Fri, 05 May 2023 20:14:27 GMT

How far is the PS5 from the hub 2 and what are the obstacles between them?

I don't own a PS5, so I don't have experience of how the PS5 speed test functions, but your upload speeds reported by the PS5 seems awfully low??

I had a quick glance at Plusnet's T&C:

4. Quality of service

4.1. We aim to provide a continuous, high-quality service, but we can't be responsible for:

4.1.3. ensuring equipment we provide allows you to get a wireless signal everywhere within your home or delivers the speeds possible over a wired connection wirelessly.

Re: FTTP WI-FI Speed Expectations

Mustrum — Fri, 05 May 2023 20:46:18 GMT

Not sure on the EE trials mentioned, maybe it is BT doing WiFi6 trials, not heard anything on the EE forum.

In any case if spedd and latency are important, a cable connection is always going to be faster than WIFI.

Re: FTTP WI-FI Speed Expectations

dvorak — Fri, 05 May 2023 20:54:19 GMT

The PS5 speed test has never shown accurate speeds - mine is hardwired and it doesn't show 900.
My other cabled devices all show 900+.
If you can use ethernet for the PS5 your gaming experience will be much better

Re: FTTP WI-FI Speed Expectations

bullybeef73 — Fri, 05 May 2023 21:06:49 GMT

@bill888 wrote:

How far is the PS5 from the hub 2 and what are the obstacles between them?

I don't own a PS5, so I don't have experience of how the PS5 speed test functions, but your upload speeds reported by the PS5 seems awfully low??

I had a quick glance at Plusnet's T&C:

4. Quality of service

4.1. We aim to provide a continuous, high-quality service, but we can't be responsible for:

4.1.3. ensuring equipment we provide allows you to get a wireless signal everywhere within your home or delivers the speeds possible over a wired connection wirelessly.

Many thanks for pointing that out for me.

Like I said being partially sighted doesn't help, but I've had to read that half a dozen times to understand it. I performed word searches for 'Ethernet' cable or connection, and nowhere does it specify it is a speed condition. Is that wording is not somewhat cloaked and doublespeak, almost hidden in plain sight?
Where eyesight is an issue, highlighting word or term searches makes life easier scrolling through T&Cs.

Like I mentioned previously, when I spoke to the chat adviser prior to purchase, I asked if I could downgrade if my tariff if my speeds were lower than the minimum speed guarantee (not specifying Wi-Fi or ethernet). Not once was I told Wi-Fi speeds are excluded from the minimum speed guarantee for FTTP. I understood they were for copper, but for me, my previous Wi-Fi speeds were sometimes faster than ethernet, so I took little notice. Surely, the advertisements and T&Cs should have that condition in big, bold letters?

Blind and naïve aren't a good combination.

Re: FTTP WI-FI Speed Expectations

bullybeef73 — Fri, 05 May 2023 22:07:22 GMT

I've just recalled what had me mistaken about Wi-Fi FTTP speeds from the beginning.

After Openreach installed the system, they tested the line with a mobile phone. No ethernet connection was used. Sadly, this only reinforced what I was told by Plusnet Chat prior to purchase, and led me to believe FTTP Wi-Fi speeds should be faster.

This all being said, I may actually look into a new Router if need be. How would I check if my current devices are compatible with Wi-Fi 6?

Re: FTTP WI-FI Speed Expectations

bill888 — Fri, 05 May 2023 22:24:12 GMT

You'd need to know make & model of the device. Then try and find the technical specs from the manufacturer's website!

gsmarena.com is also good site for smartphone specs.

For Windows computers, look up the wifi card in Device Manager. Then google the specs of the wifi card if it is not obvious whether it is Wifi-6 (AX), Wifi-5 (AC) etc.

I think Wifi-6 only started to appear in devices about 2-3 years ago, so don't be surprised if most of your devices are Wifi-5 (AC) spec. If it can only use 2.4 GHz, then it is even older Wifi-4 (N) spec

All things being equal, Wifi-6 speeds may only be twice as fast as Wifi-5 speeds in practise.

imho, if the PS5 is only seeing 160 mbps over Wifi-5, don't expect Wifi-6 to deliver 900 Mbps !

When considering a new 3rd party router, consider buying from a retailer with good return & refund policy....

Re: FTTP WI-FI Speed Expectations

bullybeef73 — Fri, 05 May 2023 22:45:40 GMT

@bill888 wrote:

You'd need to know make & model of the device. Then try and find the technical specs from the manufacturer's website!

gsmarena.com is also good site for smartphone specs.

For Windows computers, look up the wifi card in Device Manager. Then google the specs of the wifi card if it is not obvious whether it is Wifi-6 (AX), Wifi-5 (AC) etc.

I think Wifi-6 only started to appear in devices about 2-3 years ago, so don't be surprised if most of your devices are Wifi-5 (AC) spec. If it can only use 2.4 GHz, then it is even older Wifi-4 (N) spec

All things being equal, Wifi-6 speeds may only be twice as fast as Wifi-5 speeds in practise.

imho, if the PS5 is only seeing 160 mbps over Wifi-5, don't expect Wifi-6 to deliver 900 Mbps !

Thanks again for the advice.

I also managed to find this site too: https://www.thewindowsclub.com/how-to-tell-if-my-pc-has-wifi-6
And it does seem we only have one device compatible with Wi-Fi 6! Our handsets only came out in the last couple of years.

With the neighbours FTTP Wi-Fi speeds topping 900mbs and an Openreach engineer choosing to test the connection over Wi-Fi, I just was under the impression the minimum speed (500mbs) was universal for FTTP and it has completely thrown me.

I only chose Fibre 900 for the kids. Like I said, I would've been happy with Fibre 145, and would have obviously been very pleasantly surprised had we received at least 500mbs - just what I thought we were paying for. My eldest agreed to chip in for the monthly payments. Sadly, he won't see the benefit.

Re: FTTP WI-FI Speed Expectations

bill888 — Sat, 06 May 2023 04:07:20 GMT

fwiw, Plusnet were offering an unpublicised Fibre 300 upgrade, which was only a few quid more than Fibre 145.

One other tip is whether the Hub 2 is in the best location to serve the whole property?

eg. could you move the Hub 2 to the centre of the house and use a long ethernet cable to connect it to the Openreach ONT ? This may improve speeds to those wifi devices which were a bit too far from the hub. Solid internal walls tend to be the biggest killer of wifi speeds in my experience.

Re: FTTP WI-FI Speed Expectations

bill888 — Sat, 06 May 2023 04:39:24 GMT

fyi, latest news on smart hub 3 and 4 posted this morning:

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2023/05/bt-aspire-to-be-first-uk-isp-to-bundle-wifi-7-broadband-router.html

Re: FTTP WI-FI Speed Expectations

bullybeef73 — Sat, 06 May 2023 18:04:04 GMT

Many thanks for the continued advice.

Like what has already been mentioned, the majority of my devices wouldn't be compatible with Wi-Fi 6, so that option would be pointless for now. I seemed to have unintentionally purchased the future last month.

One lesson learned is to ask for advice here first and not customer services.

I seem to have had my fears confirmed that my Wi-Fi speeds are what they are, and the minimum speed guarantee doesn't protect FTTP Wi-Fi speeds - I was really under the illusion that they did based upon the advice I received prior to purchase from Plusnet themselves, neighbouring Wi-Fi speeds, and Openreach testing new service over Wi-Fi. Its difficult not to feel disillusioned. The highlighted sentence should be made clearer for all customers.

Personally it wasn't about speed, it was about receiving what I believed I was paying for, along with the Plusnet's pre-contract verbal advice I could downgrade my tariff if need be.

Perhaps this is common knowledge on here within the community forums, but maybe not everyone frequents them, like myself. Reading reems of text isn't easy on the best of eyes. And the T&Cs are abysmally unclear.

I do appreciated the candour and honesty I have received here. I just wish I had received it pre-contract. The only solution is whether I can downgrade my tariff and contract as I was at first advised. I have a feeling that is unlikely too.

Bottom line is I am out of solutions to my problem other than lumping it.

Re: FTTP WI-FI Speed Expectations

bullybeef73 — Sun, 07 May 2023 09:43:23 GMT

Thanks to some PM advice I have received, I hope someone from Plusnet customer services can help me further.

Based upon being told pre-purchase via Plusnet chat that I could downgrade my package if my speeds were lower than the Minimum Speed Guarantee, without it being specified that Wi-Fi speeds aren't included in the guarantee, could someone from Plusnet assist me in discussing whether I could indeed lower my tariff or switch to BT?

Without keep playing the partially sighted card, this fact clearly effected my ability to pinpoint the written terms relating to the Minimum Speed Guarantee excluding Wifi speeds even on FTTP. Had Plusnet chat simply made this clear when I asked, I obviously wouldn't have chosen the highest tariff. I must add, for any customers, especially those with low vision, it surely should be made completely transparent what the Minimum Speed Guarantee covers you for.

For awareness sakes, for people in my situation, just writing a post like this can take over half an hour. It is infuriating, but not anyone's fault. It's not about pity; just seeking added support and knowing your customer.

I have noticed the fee for BT Fibre 500 is currently £30.99 for me, whereas the Plusnet Fibre 500 price doesn't really differ too much from my current price for Fibre 900.

I would be loath to leave after being with Plusnet for sometime and not having any real issues in the past. Apart from the Sales chat dept not being completely informative about the Minimum Speed Guarantee, I do rate the customer services very highly, especially when problem solving.

I am currently in the process of receiving an automated compensation refund and want to ask whether any tariff change or switch would interrupt this process.

If I could receive any further advice in this matter it would be greatly appreciated.