topic Re: Get a FTTP line alongside FTTC line? in Everything else

Get a FTTP line alongside FTTC line?

fishtank — Mon, 09 Jun 2025 13:50:37 GMT

Essentially could one have 2 BBand accounts, but asking another ISP for the FTTP?

How dedicated is the Exchange=FTTC also?

Note here I'm talking underground cables NOT telegraph poles.

I'm wondering about the physical cable thing. The line Exchange=cabinet , does that remain if _upgrade_ to FTTP, and I'm thinking in the cabinet there's a connector [fibre=copper] and that allows a change to [fibre=fibre] and new fibre line gets to my house and the CSP/ONT setup?

Or is there a new seperate line straight Exchange=house?

Of course I'm aware of fibre capacity but is there likely to be more than one fibre cable from Exchange to part or all of an estate?

Re: Get a FTTP line alongside FTTC line?

bmc — Mon, 09 Jun 2025 13:54:41 GMT

@fishtank

Full Fibre is an entirely new network from the existing copper one. It goes nowhere near the FTTC cabinet.

It should be quite easy to get a second network as FTTC & FTTP don't share anything apart from the duct or overhead access to the property.

Brian

Re: Get a FTTP line alongside FTTC line?

RealAleMadrid — Mon, 09 Jun 2025 14:08:49 GMT

@fishtank Do you a have particular reason to want a separate FTTP broadband connection, you could have 2 Plusnet accounts. Don't forget that PSTN phones ( over copper lines) will be discontinued in the near future so keeping a copper line for a phone is not a long term answer.

Re: Get a FTTP line alongside FTTC line?

fishtank — Mon, 09 Jun 2025 14:13:20 GMT

All righty, now I'm thinking in our cul-de-sac there's about 50 houses and they'll have/had dedicated PSTN since yonks, even if many are FTTC. And further afield that number can be double-figure multiplied.

So, not having watched the road or footpaths constantly over the years, if all of us wanted FTTP are the relevant number of fibre lines possibly already underground or need to be installed?

Re: Get a FTTP line alongside FTTC line?

fishtank — Mon, 09 Jun 2025 14:19:24 GMT

@RealAleMadrid wrote:

@fishtank Don't forget that PSTN phones ( over copper lines) will be discontinued in the near future so keeping a copper line for a phone is not a long term answer.

Which bodes the question, for the less than 50metres to the FTTC cabinet still copper, is that _in _fact_destined to be scrapped or could one live out remaining purely on FTTC - even if the analogue phone goes in 2027?

Re: Get a FTTP line alongside FTTC line?

bmc — Mon, 09 Jun 2025 14:25:12 GMT

@fishtank

Have you checked if Full Fibre is available to you? You're looking for WBC FTTP in the left hand column.

https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/#/ADSL

When installing the fibre network OR will (should!) ensure there is enough capacity to service all the properties in that location.

This picture shows the chamber service my house.

You can see the existing copper connections left in place so services continue to work as normal. The CBT has 8 ports to service 7 houses. The bull "pull ropes" are where they checked individual house ducts - if clear they left a pull rope for the house installer.

Since this was taken CityFibre have added 7 ducts to the chamber for their network.

Brian

Re: Get a FTTP line alongside FTTC line?

jab1 — Mon, 09 Jun 2025 14:28:14 GMT

What does https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/#/ADSL say for your phone number?

Re: Get a FTTP line alongside FTTC line?

bmc — Mon, 09 Jun 2025 14:29:18 GMT

@fishtank

Yes, there is an OpenReach product called SOGEA which is basically internet with no phone line. When the phones go you'll get moved onto this - you would barely notice the change being made. Note I believe PSTN will be withdrawn in the relatively near future - certainly long before the January 2027 "death knell" date.

Brian

Re: Get a FTTP line alongside FTTC line?

fishtank — Mon, 09 Jun 2025 14:33:15 GMT

bmc wrote "Have you checked if Full Fibre is available to you? You're looking for WBC FTTP in the left hand column."

Sure. Are your 8port/7houses wrt PSTN or fibre, thoguh your '7 ducts' mean fibre I guess. But that still begs how many fibre _lines_ per duct or wahtever!

Re: Get a FTTP line alongside FTTC line?

fishtank — Mon, 09 Jun 2025 14:45:30 GMT

To jab1

Well, trying to avoid typos. Most major players and a few AltNets can supply from 50-900codedelectronhordes to me in their FTTP deals.

And in reality this is all prompted by the friggin Greenby nonsense, though I know it's getting tight.

Aargh, I've just noticed the "Email me when reply" was ticked, I opted out in Settings, why back again?

Re: Get a FTTP line alongside FTTC line?

bmc — Mon, 09 Jun 2025 14:44:35 GMT

@fishtank

I can't remember the exact number but OR run a shared network. I think it's 32 ports per circuit so that's 32 connections available. The CBT in my picture is "daisy chained" - it's the 5th and final one for the FTTP circuit I'm on. Most of the street will be covered by this circuit but those at the top end will be on a separate one.

When FTTP is ordered, the engineer simply plugs in the fibre cable to a port and runs the cable to the property where work is required to bring it into the house.

Brian

Re: Get a FTTP line alongside FTTC line?

bmc — Mon, 09 Jun 2025 14:50:17 GMT

@fishtank

The CityFibre network is slighly different. They have a cabinet at the top of the street which connects to their own backbone network. Then then use the OR ducts to run a separate 5mm duct to each property and blow the fibre optic cable through the duct.

You can see one of their ducts in this picture. I think there were testing the duct was clear all the way back to their cabinet.

Brian

Re: Get a FTTP line alongside FTTC line?

fishtank — Mon, 09 Jun 2025 14:57:28 GMT

bmc wrote "when FTTP is ordered, the engineer simply plugs in the fibre cable to a port and runs the cable to the property where work is required to bring it into the house."

So not enough numbers to do the arithmetic, but am I thinking correct that with the fibre's capacity there will be some optical switching to put the short lengths from that 'port' to each house? And now with your new 'CityFibre' post, I'm still ignorant. If e.g. 1 fibre line had capacity replace 1000 copper ( I dunno) then where and how is the swithcing done to get to the previous copper endpoints, is what's eluding me

Re: Get a FTTP line alongside FTTC line?

bmc — Mon, 09 Jun 2025 15:11:13 GMT

@fishtank

The fibre optic cable goes nowhere near the existing copper network.

Each fibre "circuit" runs to an "aggregator" (I think that's what it's called) to combine the circuits. Fibre optic cable then runs all the way to one of the Main Exchanges which has an Internet "head end" (basically the connect tion to the internet itself. The "aggregators" also have capacity limits if memory serves me correctly. Digital switches are used where required.

FTTC cabinets are served by fibre optic cable before using the copper house connection.

OpenReach currently have over 5000 Exchanges. In time, OR expect to reduce this number down to the 1000 or so Main Exchanges.

The CityFibre network does not interact with the OR one. They have their own capacity to run internet connnctions. It just so happens I have a choice of two full fibre providers.

Brian

Re: Get a FTTP line alongside FTTC line?

RobPN — Mon, 09 Jun 2025 15:13:06 GMT

@fishtank wrote:

... then where and how is the swithcing done to get to the previous copper endpoints, is what's eluding me

@fishtank

Time division multiplexing

Re: Get a FTTP line alongside FTTC line?

fishtank — Mon, 09 Jun 2025 22:25:44 GMT

All right, not going any, umm, deeper into this for now anyway.

And to Rob, hmmm that phrase rings a bell in another capacity which escapes me just now.

thanks all

Re: Get a FTTP line alongside FTTC line?

Dan_the_Van — Tue, 10 Jun 2025 07:01:47 GMT

@fishtank

I asked Gemini AI this "Explain Openreach Full Fibre architecture"

This is the result https://g.co/gemini/share/1bc31d0e21ab

Hope it helps

Re: Get a FTTP line alongside FTTC line?

krusty — Tue, 10 Jun 2025 08:10:35 GMT

gpon Fibre is not daisy chained ..

There is an optical spitter (prism i believe) to feed the download light to the 32 fibres ( a unit of 32 is a pon) and a combiner (probably the same unit) to combine 32 upstream light paths. note typically less than 30 streams are used per pon by bt.

Each fibre in the pon is assigned to a uprn

The fibres are then fed to cbts either underground/overground and recently with micro cbts into mdus and on sides of buildings.

None of this really matters in how your full fibre internet connection works.

Re: Get a FTTP line alongside FTTC line?

dvorak — Tue, 10 Jun 2025 13:29:04 GMT

Moderators Note

This topic has been moved from Full Fibre to Everything Else

Re: Get a FTTP line alongside FTTC line?

198kHz — Tue, 10 Jun 2025 17:28:00 GMT

@fishtank wrote:

Which bodes the question, for the less than 50metres to the FTTC cabinet still copper, is that _in _fact_destined to be scrapped or could one live out remaining purely on FTTC - even if the analogue phone goes in 2027

Fibre is available if I wanted it, but 40/10 FTTC is more than adequate. I can't see Openreach being in any hurry to start widescale recovery of the D side (cab to home) cables.