topic Re: Do OpenReach dig and lay their own Fibre even if another provider has already done so in Everything else

Do OpenReach dig and lay their own Fibre even if another provider has already done so

tgd — Tue, 26 Nov 2024 19:59:46 GMT

My exchange is on the OpenReach (OR) plan to have FTTP "built" (according to the May 24 Full Fibre Broadband Build Program).

City Fibre (CF) have already dug up the road and installed ducting in preparation for rolling out FTTP via ISPs that use CF.

As others have said PlusNet don't use CF, only OR.

I can't seem to find out if OR will be digging up the roads to lay their own FTTP or if I will have to accept that I will (reluctantly) need to change my ISP.

Does anyone know where I can find out if OR will actually (eventually) provide FTTP to my premises?

TIA

Tony

Re: Do OpenReach dig and lay their own Fibre even if another provider has already done so

bmc — Tue, 26 Nov 2024 20:03:07 GMT

@tgd

Are you currently served by an overhead or underground feed?

OpenReach use their current poles or ducts for the fibre cable.

Brian

Re: Do OpenReach dig and lay their own Fibre even if another provider has already done so

jab1 — Tue, 26 Nov 2024 20:03:53 GMT

Does the OR plan say when your exchange is likely to be fibre-enabled? They will not do digging - they will use their own current infrastructure.

Re: Do OpenReach dig and lay their own Fibre even if another provider has already done so

Mustrum — Tue, 26 Nov 2024 20:41:43 GMT

@tgd Openreach will know when they plan to do your property as you know from the plan.

But is you have registered with them, or look on their site if the plan is soon ish the site should at least give you a window.

https://www.openreach.com/fibre-broadband

Re: Do OpenReach dig and lay their own Fibre even if another provider has already done so

tgd — Tue, 26 Nov 2024 21:56:07 GMT

@bmc Cable is underground, laid in late 1980s - don’t know if it is in a duct. Wonder what happens if it isn’t?

A quirk of my connection is that while the nearest cabinet is just over 200m away I’m actually connected to one over 1500m away…

@jab1 and @Mustrum - according to the May 2024 Build Plan the exchange build should be complete within the next 12 months.

Thanks for your comments.

Tony

Re: Do OpenReach dig and lay their own Fibre even if another provider has already done so

Mustrum — Tue, 26 Nov 2024 22:40:20 GMT

@tgd Did you check and enter your details in the Openreach link I posted?

The reason I asked, my address is not in the May 24 plan, but I had previously registered my interest, and Openreach sent me an email a couple of weeks ago saying I am, well my address is now in their plan. Also the link I supplied is starting to narrow down my build dates. Give it a check to see if it gives any more detail.

We don't know your surrounding area, but I would be very surprised if you were not connected via some ducting solution. Keep an eye on the BTW DSL checker, when availability is closer it should say how east connectivity it may be.

Either way, sounds like you do not have long to wait.

Re: Do OpenReach dig and lay their own Fibre even if another provider has already done so

tgd — Tue, 26 Nov 2024 23:06:25 GMT

@Mustrum Sorry, I should have said, yes I have registered and all I get at the moment is that it will be available some time in 2026! Which, given my broadband is so bad at the moment (even DNS requests timeout) seems like long time to have to wait….

Tony

Re: Do OpenReach dig and lay their own Fibre even if another provider has already done so

Baldrick1 — Wed, 27 Nov 2024 08:37:38 GMT

@tgd wrote:

My exchange is on the OpenReach (OR) plan to have FTTP "built" (according to the May 24 Full Fibre Broadband Build Program).

City Fibre (CF) have already dug up the road and installed ducting in preparation for rolling out FTTP via ISPs that use CF.

I can't seem to find out if OR will be digging up the roads to lay their own FTTP or if I will have to accept that I will (reluctantly) need to change my ISP.

From talking to Openreach and an Altnet plus doing a bit of on line searching my understanding is:

If there is already an existing duct or poles then OR will allow an Altnet to use them for a rental charge. I don't know but would expect fot it to work the other way around. Either way, if OR decide to come along your road then they will do so under the permitted development rules, be it overground, through an Altnet duct or by digging their own.

If you current copper connection is directly buried and the new connestion is underground then a new duct will be installed from a convenient connection point to the existing infrastructure to your property at no cost to you. This will need you to agree the route and sign a wayleave agreement.

Re: Do OpenReach dig and lay their own Fibre even if another provider has already done so

jab1 — Wed, 27 Nov 2024 08:37:30 GMT

@Baldrick1 The OP's service is already in BT U/G infrastructure, so they will use their own ducts, I suspect.

Re: Do OpenReach dig and lay their own Fibre even if another provider has already done so

Baldrick1 — Wed, 27 Nov 2024 09:36:35 GMT

@jab1

Which begs the question why the Altnet has not used them? We know that this is the preserred option. Could it be that they are blocked? Our road was full of blocked ducts, probably due to the installation of gas some years after houses were built. OR have had to dig up getting on for half the pavements to replace sections.

Re: Do OpenReach dig and lay their own Fibre even if another provider has already done so

jab1 — Wed, 27 Nov 2024 10:03:45 GMT

We don't know obviously, but that is a distinct possibility.

Re: Do OpenReach dig and lay their own Fibre even if another provider has already done so

RealAleMadrid — Wed, 27 Nov 2024 10:27:34 GMT

@Baldrick1 The Openreach product called PIA (Physical Infrastructure Access) is a one way option, Altnets can use Openreach ducts and poles for a fee. The reverse does not apply, Openreach cannot use any Altnet infrastructure.

This seems rather unfair on Openreach and can obviously lead to more digging in the street, however it is a ruling from the wonderful OFCOM. 🙄

Re: Do OpenReach dig and lay their own Fibre even if another provider has already done so

Anonymous — Wed, 27 Nov 2024 10:36:57 GMT

@jab1 wrote "The OP's service is already in BT U/G infrastructure, so they will use their own ducts, I suspect."

@Baldrick1 wrote "Which begs the question why the Altnet has not used them?"

@RealAleMadrid "The Openreach product called PIA (Physical Infrastructure Access) is a one way option, Altnets can use Openreach ducts and poles for a fee."

Maybe the fee that Openreach wanted to charge was excessive, (in the view of the AltNet), and the AltNet decided that it was more economic for them to build their own infrastructure?

Although Openreach have to allow access, is the fee that they can charge regulated, (by OFCOM?), or can they charge what they like?

Re: Do OpenReach dig and lay their own Fibre even if another provider has already done so

jab1 — Wed, 27 Nov 2024 10:49:42 GMT

Although Openreach have to allow access, is the fee that they can charge regulated, (by OFCOM?), or can they charge what they like?

No idea, and I suspect it is 'commercially sensitive' anyway, so we won't know.

Re: Do OpenReach dig and lay their own Fibre even if another provider has already done so

bmc — Wed, 27 Nov 2024 11:12:20 GMT

@Anonymous

CityFibre do use OR ducts - this is the duct serving my house with FTTP with CF engineers installing duct.

@tgd

If no duct is available to OR they would dig a new trench. Something similar to the following would be installed in the nearest underground cabinet to your property.

End of 2026 is the generic date used for all FTTP build plans. It gets refined once an actual detailed plan is prepared and installation gets under way in a given area. I would check the following on a regular basis.

https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/#/ADSL

https://www.openreach.com/

The first link will tell you the expected speeds you should be receiving now. If this is higher than you currently receive it's worth looking at. When FullFibre becomes available you'll see WBC FTTP in the left hand column. Then look to the right to see what it says. Finally look at the narrative - it'll say something about the FTTP install.

Brian

Re: Do OpenReach dig and lay their own Fibre even if another provider has already done so

Baldrick1 — Wed, 27 Nov 2024 11:38:02 GMT

@RealAleMadrid wrote:

@Baldrick1 The Openreach product called PIA (Physical Infrastructure Access) is a one way option, Altnets can use Openreach ducts and poles for a fee. The reverse does not apply, Openreach cannot use any Altnet infrastructure.

Thanks for the clarification.

Some caution is required when looking at the Openreach roll out plan.

My understanding is that this does not include small contracts such as those being supported by community partnership.

Full fibre in our village was supported by the last government's 'connectmycommunity' voucher scheme. This did not appear in the the Openreach future plan until installation was well underway.

Re: Do OpenReach dig and lay their own Fibre even if another provider has already done so

Anonymous — Wed, 27 Nov 2024 11:40:49 GMT

@bmc wrote:

"CityFibre do use OR ducts - this is the duct serving my house with FTTP with CF engineers installing duct."

That's interesting. Around this area, CityFibre have built their own distribution network.

Our copper telephone line comes in underground via a tube that loops in and out of each house in the row, appearing behind a panel in the front wall of each dwelling.

Openreach have yet to start constructing their FTTP, but when CityFibre built theirs, a box was installed underground in the pavement outside each house's front garden, with a tube that runs back to a small green cabinet, which can service up to 48 or 64 connections.

When we had FTTP installed a couple of weeks ago, CityFibre dug up my front garden, (I was expecting them to use a mole plough, not a spade!), and ran another tube from the pavement box in to the panel in our front wall and blew the fibre from our house right to the cabinet.

All completely separate from Openreach's existing infrastructure.

@jab1

The reason that I mentioned Openreach's charges as being a potential issue is that in this area, (Milton Keynes), BT sold their old coax cable television network to Virgin Media, who later decided that it was too costly to upgrade to "modern standards", (this was over 10 years ago), so closed it down instead.

I did hear at the time, that VM wanted to replace the coaxs that run into the houses with fibre optic, but Openreach's charge for using their existing ducts and tubes made it uneconomic to proceed.

Re: Do OpenReach dig and lay their own Fibre even if another provider has already done so

jab1 — Wed, 27 Nov 2024 11:44:15 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

@jab1

The reason that I mentioned Openreach's charges as being a potential issue is that in this area, (Milton Keynes), BT sold their old coax cable television network to Virgin Media, who later decided that it was too costly to upgrade to "modern standards", (this was over 10 years ago), so closed it down instead.

I did hear at the time, that VM wanted to replace the coaxs that run into the houses with fibre optic, but Openreach's charge for using their existing ducts and tubes made it uneconomic to proceed.

.

.

Things may have changed - I know Virgin/02 have recently cabled up our area for for their 'NextFibre' fully-fibred offering, and they definitely used OR trunking at least when doing so.

Re: Do OpenReach dig and lay their own Fibre even if another provider has already done so

bmc — Wed, 27 Nov 2024 12:41:25 GMT

@Anonymous

The box in the pavement is a "Toby Box"

Here CF installed their own network round the main road and put a small cabinet at the head of the street which presumably links into the nearest OR chamber.

Although the picture only has one duct shpowing there are in fact seven, one for each house the chamber serves.

Brian

Re: Do OpenReach dig and lay their own Fibre even if another provider has already done so

paul_blitz — Thu, 28 Nov 2024 17:52:14 GMT

In Winchester, Giganet (now part of CityFibre, I believe) have dug up the pavements to install their own ducting to the path outside my house... in fact, the same as what is now Virgin did 10 to 20 years ago.

Giganet have used some of BT's ducting, but I think it's more for the "backhaul network" rather than the "street distribution".

BT currently have no plans (=installing between now and 2026!) for our area

I have a BT manhole in the road adjacent to my property for the phones, but everything from there to the houses is just "armoured cables"... so for some houses it's a long, non-ducted, underground cable, generally installed back when the houses were built in the late 60s. Many years ago, I wanted a second phone line, for a BBS: they installed a brand new cable, needing to dig up the pavement. running the cable to my garage wall.

I'm guessing that, when BT finally decide to install around here, whilst they will probably use the existing ductwork & manholes (assuming they have capacity, and haven't been damaged by Virgin or Giganet!)... they then need to decide whether to dig up individually, to lay individual, non-ducted, fiber... or to lay a load of ducts... just like Virgin & Giganet - assuming thry can find any space in the pavements!!!!

I don't imagine they would use Giganet's ducting, as it doesn't conveniently connect with their infrastructure at the street level.