topic Re: FTTC and VOIP. in Everything else

Query re Providing a Service to a New Property

zeichen — Sat, 26 Oct 2024 13:49:38 GMT

Thanks for your simple explanation. Help please. We are currently on landline & FTTC with excellent speed [80bhp]& building new disabled home at bottom of garden, fencing it off & selling current home. We want new l/line & trf exist no. plus FTTC b/band. Is this possible? Openreach offered our builder only full fibre at cost to us of £2500, no alternative [which evidently they should if over £2,000]. We want service by February, fibre has just started being installed north of village where many more homes, we are south of village in rural location, cannot imagine them digging up the lane just for us! We cannot find any contact with Openreach, no phone no, email etc. We also do not have a mobile signal so no cell phone unless wi-fi. We also have SkyQ so need this, satellite at present installed but using wi-fi. Help please, we dont want to pay £2,500 to find that fibre wont reach us for couple of years, we want to continue with FTTC but will need landline as no cell phone signal. Husband is 84 & disabled & vulnerable so cannot cope with anything very complicated, hence SkyQ & voice instructions. Could you please give your recommendations. There is an existing telephone pole opposite the site entrance which could be used to send a line to the ridge of the proposed bungalow. Any thoughts would be gratefully received.

We phoned Plusnet who didnt know what to suggest but arranged for an "expert" to phone us, but of course, never did! Thanks

Moderator's note:
Thread split off from https://community.plus.net/t5/Home-Phone/FTTC-and-VOIP/m-p/1989102#M40239

Re: FTTC and VOIP.

MisterW — Wed, 23 Oct 2024 09:55:33 GMT

@zeichen your situation is going to be a little complicated!. Your new building should be allocated a UPRN (Unique property reference number). It should be allocated that by the local authority as part of the planning/construction process https://static.geoplace.co.uk/downloads/The-UPRN-lifecycle-V3-2015.pdf

Once you have that, then you can use the BT wholesale checker https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/#/ADSL to determine what can be supplied to the premises.

The situation will be complicated by the fact that Openreach will no longer supply a landline based phone service and also if your exchange is fibre priority (doesnt sound like its likely to be) then only full fibre can be supplied.

As a start, if you already have a UPRN then sight of the results from the checker above will help people advise what is available. If not, then the results from your existing premises (using the post code and selecting the correct address) will still be useful.

NB in both circumstances, please redact any actual phone number/address information before posting as this is a public forum

Re: FTTC and VOIP.

bmc — Wed, 23 Oct 2024 12:03:54 GMT

@zeichen

Have you checked to see what is available at your current property ie is FTTP showing as available or coming. The Checker referred to previously may give an answer.

You can also check www.openreach.com to see what it says about FTTP for your property.

If it's coming to your current property then it should be easy to get to the new property (famous last words!!!). If it's not then you need to find out what they would charge to do both properties together. Installing FTTP to your current property should add value when you come to sell it.

There is a page on the OR site for developments where you can ask.

Brian

Re: FTTC and VOIP.

bmc — Wed, 23 Oct 2024 12:10:51 GMT

@zeichen

Another thought - have you registered with PN as a "vunerable" person if you are disabled? If not login in to your PN members page and have a look under Manage my Account (I think).

Any new phone service at the new property will be VOIP which PN do not offer.

Brian

Re: FTTC and VOIP.

zeichen — Wed, 23 Oct 2024 12:40:15 GMT

Thanks for the info. Went into OpenReach and input address [both new build registered address & ours] message came up -

"Right now this property can’t access Full Fibre on our network and is in an area where we currently don’t have any major plans to build. This could change in the future and we'll let you know if we plan to start building in this area or Full Fibre becomes available under a smaller build programme. We’re announcing updates all the time as we’re aiming to build Full Fibre to 25 million homes and businesses by 2026 and we’re not stopping there. We intend to keep building after that too."

When I asked for broadband, it kept returning to Full Fibre and would not accept anything else. At the north of the village they started laying fibre and then had to stop because of problems with the drains. So of, if they wont provide FTTC & full fibre isnt planned down this part of the village, how can we proceed. Who can provide a landline as no cell signal [even if VOIP in the future] and broadband. Do we have a right to connectivity or is a matter of bad luck, you wont have anything?

This is very worrying as no cell phone, land line or wi-fi we would be cut off completely especially for emergencies.

Re: FTTC and VOIP.

MisterW — Wed, 23 Oct 2024 12:50:47 GMT

As I said above , what does the BT wholesale checker return for the two properties ?

Re: FTTC and VOIP.

bmc — Wed, 23 Oct 2024 12:53:38 GMT

@zeichen

To echo @MisterW what does the Checker say. The narrative below the results window is as important as the results themselves.

You're particularily looking for anything that says SOGEA.

Brian

Re: FTTC and VOIP.

zeichen — Wed, 23 Oct 2024 17:08:13 GMT

The checker says -

FTTP is not available.

The exchange is not in a current fibre priority programme As a WLR withdrawal exchange, product restrictions apply

SOADSL is not restricted at the exchange

For all ADSL and WBC Fibre to the Cabinet (VDSL or G.fast) services, the stable line rate will be determined during the first 10 days of service usage. For all SOADSL services,the stable line rate will be determined during the first 10 days of service usage. Actual speeds experienced by end users and quoted by CPs will be lower due to a number of factors within and external to BT's network, Communication Providers' networks and within customer premises.

If you decide to place an order for a WBC fibre product, an appointment may be required for an engineer to visit the end user's premises to supply the service

In order to be eligible for handback, downstream speed should be less than Downstream Handback Threshold values.

ADSL, ADSL2+ and SOADSL availability: If shown at FTTP or SOGEA premises,ADSL, ADSL2+ and SOADSL are not available to order due to WLR Withdrawal stop sell rules. CPs should order FTTP or SOGEA. Copper products are only available by exception

the other message

same for both properties. If I try and check on the other options, it returns to the same message.

Re: FTTC and VOIP.

bmc — Wed, 23 Oct 2024 17:35:04 GMT

@zeichen

Thanks for the information.

It appears SOGEA is not available - this is FTTC without a phone line.

SOADSL may be available - this (I believe) is a form of digital ADSL or may even just be ADSL.

To repeat an earlier question - have you registered as a vunerable person (if you are disabled)? If there is a disabled person in the house you may still be able to register. This matters as OR and ISP's have to look after vunerable people during the switchover.

Try phoning PlusNet Customer Options Team on 0800 013 2632 and explain the situation. They should be able to tell you what's available at the new address. Whatever is, you would have to port your phone number to a VOIP provider.

To go back to OR - was it you or your builder who was quoted the price for providing FTTP? Either way, you could try getting back to them to see if two properties to be connected makes a difference.

Brian

Re: FTTC and VOIP.

MisterW — Wed, 23 Oct 2024 17:40:16 GMT

It appears SOGEA is not available

without the actual availability results display , that's difficult to know !

Re: FTTC and VOIP.

jab1 — Wed, 23 Oct 2024 18:17:56 GMT

Sorry to jump in, but if @zeichen currently has FTTC, I would be quite amazed if SOGEA wasn't available, although as said above, without the availability results, we are all guessing.

Re: FTTC and VOIP.

zeichen — Wed, 23 Oct 2024 19:49:17 GMT

I have registered with Plusnet as Disabled and we are both vulnerable,I will phone again tomorrow to see if Plusnet can help, but not so far. The biggest problem is there isnt an Openreach phone no to ask for details or an email. Have tried to find anyone from Openreach who could help, but no luck. The quote was for the new build connection to Fibre, but as there is no Fibre in the village how can they quote for a connection early next year? We havent sold this house so havent been concerned about our present connection as no one has warned us that we will lose our landline. I am in 2 yr contract with Plusnet for phone and broadband till next September with exit fee so surely they must honour voice until then? We cannot ask for joint connection if there isnt any fibre in the locale [within a mile] I dont know where it starts from as the lane in the north of the village is still closed for fibre so isnt even installed there yet. All I want to know is how we can have a phone line and broadband from 1st February, but it seems no one is able to answer and Open Reach dont have a help contact. I seem to be going round in circles!

Re: FTTC and VOIP.

jab1 — Wed, 23 Oct 2024 20:19:29 GMT

@zeichen Can you please post a screenshot of the top section of the site from which you obtained the narrative you have posted - that will give members on here a much clearer picture, from which we can try and offer advice. Please obscure any phone numbers/addresses though.

Re: FTTC and VOIP.

zeichen — Wed, 23 Oct 2024 20:53:07 GMT

https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/#/ADSL/telephoneHome

Broadband Availability Checker

Telephone Number on Exchange IPPLEPEN is served by Cabinet 2

Featured Products	Downstream Line Rate(Mbps)		Upstream Line Rate (Mbps)		Downstream Handback Threshold(Mbps)	WBC FTTC Availability	WBC SOGEA Availability	Left in Jumper
Featured Products	High	Low	High	Low
VDSL Range A (Clean)	80	71.1	20	19	65.1	Unavailable	Available	--
VDSL Range B (Impacted)	80	68.3	20	19	60	Unavailable	Available	--
G.fast Range A (Clean)	--	--	--	--	--	Unavailable	--	--
G.fast Range B (Impacted)	--	--	--	--	--	Unavailable	--	--

Featured Products	Downstream Line Rate(Mbps)	Upstream Line Rate (Mbps)	Downstream Range (Mbps)	Availability Date	FTTP Install Process
FTTP on Demand	330	50	--	Available	--

Observed Speeds	VDSL
Max Observed Downstream Speed	80
Max Observed Upstream Speed	20
Observed Date	2024-03-04

Other Offerings	Availability Date
VDSL Multicast	Available

Premise Environment	Status
Bridge Tap	N
VRI	N
NTE FacePlate	N
Last Test Date	08-10-2024

Exchange Product Restrictions	Status
FTTP Priority Exchange	N
WLR Withdrawal	Y
SOADSL Restriction	N

FTTP is not available.

The exchange is not in a current fibre priority programme

As a WLR withdrawal exchange, product restrictions apply

SOADSL is not restricted at the exchange

For all ADSL and WBC Fibre to the Cabinet (VDSL or G.fast) services, the stable line rate will be determined during the first 10 days of service usage.

For all SOADSL services,the stable line rate will be determined during the first 10 days of service usage.

Actual speeds experienced by end users and quoted by CPs will be lower due to a number of factors within and external to BT's network, Communication Providers' networks and within customer premises.

If you decide to place an order for a WBC fibre product, an appointment may be required for an engineer to visit the end user's premises to supply the service

In order to be eligible for handback, downstream speed should be less than Downstream Handback Threshold values.

Thank you for your interest

Hope this means something to you??? Thanks

Re: FTTC and VOIP.

Townman — Wed, 23 Oct 2024 21:10:24 GMT

In simple terms it is not possible to get new WLR (POTS) telephone service except in exceptional circumstances, though I do not see that is such here.

FTTP is not yet available in your location.

Therefore your service provision would be SOGEA (FTTC without POTS). If you want to move the landline number to the new property then that will need to be a VoIP service.

If you want to keep broadband and voice provision with the same supplier there are plenty to choose from. Plusnet will waive ETCs if you ask them to migrate you to BT + Digital Voice.

You could also do a house move on the FTTC broadband contract (it become SOGEA) which releases the phone number which you can transfer to VoIP within 30 days.

Home moves are managed by the Customer Options Team.

Re: FTTC and VOIP.

zeichen — Thu, 24 Oct 2024 10:44:00 GMT

Thanks again. Hard going to understand all of this, especially as I have to look up what all these are. Evidently SOGEA isnt available for our address/tel number. I definitely do not want to transfer to BT, they have a very poor service in the village, people being left without phones and broadband for over a week. The people who have BT have had their landlines converted to digital and are using FTTC broadband.

Why is it not possible to get a new POTS telephone service, albeit digital, without being forced to go to BT? We hoped that we could have our existing service as my husband is disabled and we are both vulnerable, both receiving chemotherapy and both being monitored closely by our local hospital Haematology Dept, by phone. My husband is 84 and because we have never had a cell phone service here, only uses his mobile for emergencies when out or when in hospital, he is not tech savvy and can just about manage the calling and charging. I had hoped that we could continue with the service until the switch off in 2027, although after reading this, I would swap Providers to a VoIP service after the contract expires in September. Being realistic, I do not know if either of us will be around to make phone calls in 2027, but at least the problem is delayed whilst so much more is going on. I am already dealing with the National Grid, SouthWest Water etc without the headache of trying to guess what we can have at the new house. As I said Open Reach only gave the option of full fibre & I cannot find anyone to contact regarding whether this would be available to us early next year when it is nowhere near us.

Thanks again, what a headache!

Re: FTTC and VOIP.

jab1 — Thu, 24 Oct 2024 10:50:12 GMT

Evidently SOGEA isnt available for our address/tel number.

@zeichen Looking at that BT checker detail you posted last night, SOGEA is available at your current address, and would be in the new property.

Re: FTTC and VOIP.

bmc — Thu, 24 Oct 2024 10:57:28 GMT

@zeichen

Thanks for the information. Is it from your current address or your new build?

If the former run the Checker for the new address - what you're looking for is the Header WBC SOGEA Availability and what's listed in this column.

Brian

Re: FTTC and VOIP.

bmc — Thu, 24 Oct 2024 11:18:59 GMT

@zeichen

Do you use PN e-mail at all or any of the other Add Ons which were part of Legacy products? You would lose PN e-mail on the day you leave PN.

Do you have any care or house alarms connected to the phone line?

Does your contract end Sep 2025.

POTS (of PSTN) is an analogue product is being withdrawn at the end of 2025 (not Jan 2027 as some people think). The difference between the dates is that short term extensions to a POTS service will be allowed in exceptional circumstances. You might have qualified if you weren't moving.

Added to this is PN are withdrawing from providing phone services. It is not known at this time when they plan to pull the plug.

As previously stated, you need to phone the PN COTS team and ask what's available at the new property. If WBC SOGEA is available then if would cost the price of a new line install. If you phone make sure you discuss your medical needs / lack of mobile signal etc with them.

If changing ISP is acceptable you would properly end up paying early termination charges with PN from Feb to Sep (assuming the timetable for your move is held). One to consider is Zen Internet - not the cheapest (but easy to transfer both internet and phone) but they have a good reputation. As I understand it you can plug your phone into the back to the Zen router so all you have to worry about is power backup.

Brian

Re: FTTC and VOIP.

mystreet1 — Thu, 24 Oct 2024 11:33:42 GMT

Would it be possible to request OR to reposition the incoming line to the new build due to building works being carried out. Know that the OR database etc would also need updating . I assume that they get this sort of request frequently.