topic Re: Wayleave permission in Everything else

Wayleave permission

Benjack — Fri, 12 Jul 2024 10:48:16 GMT

I was interested in going full fibre, but i live with a leasehold on the property.

I reached out to the leaseholder and they say they need Wayleave documentation including a plan showing the proposed route before granting permission.

How do i get this sorted?

Unfortunately i only have a couple of weeks until my current contract expires, im doubting this will get sorted in that time.

Re: Wayleave permission

MisterW — Fri, 12 Jul 2024 10:59:06 GMT

@Benjack what does the BT wholesale checker https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/#/ADSL/AddressHome say regarding FTTP availability for your address. Partcularly the narrative below the availability matrix

Re: Wayleave permission

bmc — Fri, 12 Jul 2024 11:07:15 GMT

@Benjack

If staying with PN they will upgrade you to Full Fibre at any time at the cost of a new contract. It does mean the loss of your landline.

Brian

Re: Wayleave permission

dvorak — Fri, 12 Jul 2024 11:11:23 GMT

Moderators Note

This topic has been moved from Full Fibre to Everything Else

Re: Wayleave permission

Benjack — Fri, 12 Jul 2024 12:45:23 GMT

@MisterW

Is this what you mean:

Our records show the following FTTP network service information for these premises:-Single Dwelling Unit Residential OH Feed with no anticipated issues.

FTTP is available and a new ONT may be ordered.

As a fibre priority exchange, FTTP has priority over other products if available at the address

As a WLR withdrawal exchange, product restrictions apply

SOADSL is not restricted at the exchange

For all ADSL and WBC Fibre to the Cabinet (VDSL or G.fast) services, the stable line rate will be determined during the first 10 days of service usage.

For all SOADSL services,the stable line rate will be determined during the first 10 days of service usage.

This site is in an FTTP priority area where FTTP is available but exceptionally SOGEA will also show as available to order but only at Non-Standard Premises (NSP) such as Hot site, Uninhabitable and Temporary locations. Migrations of WLR Solus (voice-only lines) is also allowed but only for SOGEA 0.5Mbps bandwidths. SOGEA 40/10 bandwidths order is also allowed.

Actual speeds experienced by end users and quoted by CPs will be lower due to a number of factors within and external to BT's network, Communication Providers' networks and within customer premises.

In order to be eligible for handback, downstream speed should be less than Downstream Handback Threshold values.

If you decide to place an order for a WBC fibre product, an appointment may be required for an engineer to visit the end user's premises to supply the service

ADSL, ADSL2+ and SOADSL availability: If shown at FTTP or SOGEA premises,ADSL, ADSL2+ and SOADSL are not available to order due to WLR Withdrawal stop sell rules. CPs should order FTTP or SOGEA. Copper products are only available by exception.

Re: Wayleave permission

Benjack — Fri, 12 Jul 2024 12:41:09 GMT

I would like to go full fibre.

But im in a leasehold and sort out permission from the leaseholder.

however they need wayleave documents before they give it, so im trying to find out how to get that sorted

Re: Wayleave permission

MisterW — Fri, 12 Jul 2024 12:47:36 GMT

@Benjack yes that's it'

This

Our records show the following FTTP network service information for these premises:-Single Dwelling Unit Residential OH Feed with no anticipated issues.

is the significant bit. So is it a house that's leasehold , rather than say a block of flats which is your typical leasehold ?

Certainly Openreach believe that its a single dwelling. The existing feed is overhead so it is assumed that the FTTP feed would take a similar route.

edit: in the availability matrix , what does it say in the INstall process column for WBC FTTP

Re: Wayleave permission

Benjack — Fri, 12 Jul 2024 12:50:36 GMT

@MisterW

I believe the property used to be a 4 unit council house. So im in a first floor maisonette. theres someone else on the floor below me, and the property is mirrored with the same situation at the other end of the building. The leaseholder owns the shell of the whole building, hence looking for permission to potentially drill through said shell.

I asked permission from the leaseholder, they said they need wayleave documentation, but i don't know how to sort that, hence asking PN if they know.

Re: Wayleave permission

MisterW — Fri, 12 Jul 2024 12:56:33 GMT

@Benjack how is your existing phone line routed ?

I would have thought that if wayleave was required, then Openreach already have it in place for the existing phone line ?

but i don't know how to sort that, hence asking PN if they know.

Plusnet have nothing to do with (and wont know anything about) wayleave. If its required , its purely between Openreach and the freeholder. Problem is you can't talk to Openreach directly...

Re: Wayleave permission

Benjack — Fri, 12 Jul 2024 12:59:17 GMT

@MisterW

I don't know exactly. Looking out the window i would guess the line goes up into my loft and then down to wherever in the property.

This is what i got from the leaseholder:

For fibre broadband to be installed, X require your provider to send Wayleave documentation including a plan showing the proposed route to X.

We cannot grant permission for this request at present. Our legal department are in the process of creating an agreement with Openreach as part of their project to provide broadband across the country. 

(subbed out the actual name and address to avoid any issues)

Re: Wayleave permission

MisterW — Fri, 12 Jul 2024 13:02:23 GMT

@Benjack

We cannot grant permission for this request at present. Our legal department are in the process of creating an agreement with Openreach as part of their project to provide broadband across the country.

That sounds like the freeholder is already in contact with Openreach, which is good!. However it seems that until those discussions are complete , you are stuck!

Re: Wayleave permission

bmc — Fri, 12 Jul 2024 13:04:28 GMT

@Benjack

If it's an overhead feed then potentially OR could use the existing copper entry point (replacing the copper cable) so no drilling required.

However, the problem could be that an external box is required at ground level (a CSP - Customer Splice Point I believe). So the cable would need to come down to ground level and then back up to to you. It might be that one CSP can do both properties on your side (not certain of this).

Are you happy with the current location of the existing entry point? It needs a power source but as the router is connected via ehternet it can go where ever you're happy to run cable.

Brian

Re: Wayleave permission

bmc — Fri, 12 Jul 2024 13:07:03 GMT

@Benjack

Reading your latest post does one incoming copper line service all four properties?

Brian

Re: Wayleave permission

Benjack — Fri, 12 Jul 2024 13:07:37 GMT

@MisterW

So basically i should go for the renewal of what i currently have and hope things are sorted by the time that one expires?

Re: Wayleave permission

MisterW — Fri, 12 Jul 2024 13:11:17 GMT

@Benjack that's probably the simplest option at the moment. Once the issue is sorted , you can upgrade to FTTP at any time, you don't need to wait for any existing contract to expire, there will be no Early termination charges applied when you upgrade, although a new contract will be required.

Re: Wayleave permission

Benjack — Fri, 12 Jul 2024 13:12:03 GMT

@bmc

as far as i can tell, each unit gets its own cable from the telegraph pole across the road (at my half two cables come across, one disappears into the loft and the other drops down the side of the building before going through a window frame. looks to be a similar situation at the other end)

Re: Wayleave permission

Benjack — Fri, 12 Jul 2024 13:14:42 GMT

@MisterW

Ah grand thanks. The joys of living under someone elses roof (sort of).

I hadnt realised about not needing to wait until the end of the contract. The speed wasn't an issue, so hadnt looked into it before, but looking at the renewal deals there were options that were cheaper and faster than what i was currently paying, so seemed like a no brainer but now more of a headache

Re: Wayleave permission

MisterW — Fri, 12 Jul 2024 13:29:54 GMT

@Benjack in practice , I would have thought that any fibre install would follow the same routing. In your case the loft may be a problem, I'm not sure OR are allowed to work in lofts , certainly not unless they are fully boarded. In the past there would have been a problem with installing the CSP (Customer splice point) (Grey box) since it had to be outside at ground level, but now can be inside provided it is not more than 4 ft above a floor.

There was supposedly a new law back in 2021 (I think?) that was meant to solve these issues of leasehold and FTTP install but it doesn't seem to have achieved much!

Re: Wayleave permission

bmc — Fri, 12 Jul 2024 13:53:51 GMT

@Benjack

You never know exactly what OR are going to do until they turn up for the install - unless they do a survey first when you might have a chance to speak to them. An install is often a trade off between the desirable and the possible if you want to change the incoming location.

While OR might follow the extisting cable route into the loft (if access is available and it is floored) another possibility (potentially easier) way might be to bring the fibre down to ground level to the CSP and then back up to install on the inside of an external wall at a location you're happy with (ie drill new entry hole).

It is highly unlikely that OR will produce a plan given that they will probably use the existing O/H feeds. They either use the existing entry method via the loft as described above or cable down a wall, CSP at ground level and then back up with new extry hole drilled. You could suggest this to your leaseholder to see what they say.

Brian

Re: Wayleave permission

MisterW — Fri, 12 Jul 2024 14:06:54 GMT

@Benjack I've just noticed this

This site is in an FTTP priority area where FTTP is available

In the narrative from the BTw checker.

This means that Openreach will not accept an order for new supply UNLESS its FTTP. Effectively it means you can't change suppliers or your current product with Plusnet unless your freeholder agrees to FTTP being installed. They need to urgently liase with Openreach to sort it out...