topic Re: What happens to my POTs-based broadband when POTs dies? in Everything else

What happens to my POTs-based broadband when POTs dies?

OldLes — Thu, 16 Nov 2023 19:49:19 GMT

My POTs line rental and broadband contract ends Aug 2024. But I hear that POTs dies in the Spring of 2024 for East Anglia. So what happens to my contract and connection?

Re: What happens to my POTs-based broadband when POTs dies?

jab1 — Thu, 16 Nov 2023 19:58:03 GMT

@OldLes POTs - as you call it - is the telephone component of your service, which means your phone will no longer work 'over the copper network' as it does now, you will have to investigate getting a Voice-over-Intenet-Protocol (VoIP) service if your landline is important to you. Your broadband should continue, as the actual copper cables will remain in place for some tine to come.

Re: What happens to my POTs-based broadband when POTs dies?

dvorak — Thu, 16 Nov 2023 21:27:03 GMT

Moderators Note

This topic has been moved from Broadband to Everything Else

Re: What happens to my POTs-based broadband when POTs dies?

Baldrick1 — Thu, 16 Nov 2023 21:33:48 GMT

@OldLes

There is a great deal of confusion being caused by BT retail.
POTS is programmed to be switched off at the end of 2025. In preparation for this, BT customers, not Plusnet ones are having their landline phones switched to digital in East Anglia next spring, see https://newsroom.bt.com/bt-announces-regional-rollout-schedule-for-digital-voice.

Re: What happens to my POTs-based broadband when POTs dies?

OldLes — Thu, 16 Nov 2023 23:02:09 GMT

So if my landline phone is going to be broken after Spring 2025 you would think Plusnet would mention it at least.☹️

My router doesn't have a telephone jack (output) so any VoIP phone would have to plug into an RJ45. Given that Plusnet are contracted to supply a phone line that doesn't sound reasonable. Maybe BT have to hook up something like they do for people without broadband so the phone still works. But again you would have thought Plusnet, as my supplier, would have mentioned it by now.

It is not clear (to me) how many fibre networks there are. I think Virgin had a separate network to the BT one. Do other suppliers just rent capacity on a main fibre backbone? I know my mum had a virgin fibre installation (years ago) and they dug a thin trench to bury the fibre. But surely if you change suppliers they don't dig in a new fibre?

Re: What happens to my POTs-based broadband when POTs dies?

corringham — Fri, 17 Nov 2023 09:25:43 GMT

Plusnet are not going to provide any phone connection (PSTN aka POTS, or VoIP) when the PSTN service is fully withdrawn (starting now for any product change!).

Although BT has some areas where they are already moving customers to VoIP, other ISPs will have to make their own plans to transfer customers - some already run VoIP services themselves, others will team up with third party VoIP providers.

Plusnet has decided that in the future they will only offer plain residential broadband - no phone lines, no VoIP, no e-mail, no business broadband, no mobile, no web hosting, etc.

Plusnet will arrange to migrate any customers that want to keep a phone line to EE.

Although the PSTN is being withdrawn, the copper lines will be around for a decade or so, and non-FTTP broadband will continue to be provided using the copper lines wherever FTTP is not yet available.

Re: What happens to my POTs-based broadband when POTs dies?

jab1 — Fri, 17 Nov 2023 09:31:22 GMT

@corringham Slightly OT, but the decisions as to what the PN brand will offer (or not) is made by BT Consumer.

Re: What happens to my POTs-based broadband when POTs dies?

Archer — Fri, 17 Nov 2023 09:32:28 GMT

On the same subject.

Although I have decided to eventually dispense with my Plusnet PSTN service, it would be useful to have some idea when and how the service will be withdrawn. PSTN closure will be within the span of my next contract.

I guess some of the possible scenarios are:

1) PN withdraw the service when I re contract in April.

2) PN have a planned programme of phased withdrawal which they will share.

3) PN do nothing and let the service disappear when OR turn off the PSTN in general.

Associated questions are:

On what basis is the service provided if 2 & 3 apply? i.e. what would the contract look like?
If there was a PSTN fault during the next contract, would it be repaired and what rules would apply?

If anyone can offer any clarity or opinion I would be grateful.

Thanks.

Re: What happens to my POTs-based broadband when POTs dies?

corringham — Fri, 17 Nov 2023 09:43:01 GMT

@jab1 , as you point out Plusnet is now just a brand name used by BT, rather than a separate company that is competing for customers. When I say "Plusnet has decided" I really mean "it has been decided that Plusnet".

I suspect it has been decided that Plusnet will be wound down completely and any remaining customers transferred to EE before too long...

Re: What happens to my POTs-based broadband when POTs dies?

corringham — Fri, 17 Nov 2023 09:52:10 GMT

@Archer wrote:

I guess some of the possible scenarios are:

1) PN withdraw the service when I re contract in April.

If you make any change to services other than just renewing exactly what you have that will certainly be the case. It is possible that they will only offer you SOGEA, but that would mean they have to make a decision and they aren't very good at that.

2) PN have a planned programme of phased withdrawal which they will share.

Not sure whether they have a plan - but I doubt they would share it with customers. They don't even share their plans with staff e.g. the date of business broadband closure and date of mobile closure are still undefined.

3) PN do nothing and let the service disappear when OR turn off the PSTN in general.

I think that will happen to the majority of customers. To be fair, many customers don't use the land line - but I suspect that a good few that do will be taken by surprise when the phone goes away.

The contract allows them to withdraw services without penalty.

OpenReach are already becoming less enthusiastic regarding phone faults, and I have read of some cases where they have declared the fix uneconomic. I imagine that will become the norm.

Re: What happens to my POTs-based broadband when POTs dies?

jab1 — Fri, 17 Nov 2023 09:53:30 GMT

You could be correct, @corringham - fortunately that won't worry me, except, possibly, for the loss of the wealth of knowledge within these forums, which will disappear.

Re: What happens to my POTs-based broadband when POTs dies?

Dan_the_Van — Fri, 17 Nov 2023 10:50:02 GMT

The original posts highlights the confusion caused by BT moving their customers to Digital Phone and the turning off the old landline service over copper. Copper cable will survive this switch off as it still required for FTTC with no landline phone (SOGEA) ~~probably~~ beyond the 2025 PTSN switch off.

From a plusnet customer point of view, making limited or no announcements on their product range future is really poor and should be seen as discourteous to us the customer, I've been one for 20 years.

With the evolution of broadband from analogue to digital does indeed result in new skills being required, but for those who like to help less to do, this trend has already started with issues with the end users equipment causing problems rather than the connection to the property.

Maybe John (@jab1) we need a new hobby?

Re: What happens to my POTs-based broadband when POTs dies?

jab1 — Fri, 17 Nov 2023 10:53:38 GMT

@Dan_the_Van You are probably correct about needing a new hobby. To be truthful, I am getting rather tired of this forum turning into a clone of the BT Broadband one, the lack of response from most who ask for help, and the obvious underhand way it is being 'managed' - see the fiasco which is https://community.plus.net/t5/Community-Site-Feedback/Forum-quot-Who-s-Online-quot-is-broken/td-p/1932488 .

Re: What happens to my POTs-based broadband when POTs dies?

corringham — Fri, 17 Nov 2023 11:15:54 GMT

@jab1 , @Dan_the_Van , I agree these fora have become much less useful - apart from yourselves and a few others there is very little response to most posts asking for help/advice, and noticeably decreasing involvement by staff (and many staff responses are from scripts that are inappropriate or just plain wrong for the question asked).

I'm in the process of migrating my last SIM to another provider, and then I'll no longer be a Plusnet customer.

And since now the ONLY product they have available for me is sub-USO ADSL so I'll never be a customer again - so I'm not long for these fora...

Re: What happens to my POTs-based broadband when POTs dies?

jab1 — Fri, 17 Nov 2023 11:19:53 GMT

Sorry to hear that, @corringham . As you may (or maybe not) be aware, I am no longer a PN customer, merely staying on the forums to help those customers who ask for help.

Re: What happens to my POTs-based broadband when POTs dies?

bmc — Fri, 17 Nov 2023 12:51:04 GMT

@OldLes @Archer

PN have been a pain regarding phone services ever since they introduced FTTP with a conmplete lack of information provided.

When PSTN goes, the copper lines between the Exchange and the cabinet will largely become redundant and may be removed for recycling if cost effective but the copper line from the cabinet to your house will remain (unless you get FTTP). OpenReach have a product called SOGEA which uses the copper line from the cabinet to provide internet. There's a product for ADSL and one for phone line only (over VOIP).

I believe PN are doing a managed withdrawl from phone services by not offering any to new customers or those going to FTTP. It may be they are also no longer offering phone services with contract renewels but I'm not certain about that.

When the time comes to close down, they'll have far fewer customers to deal with regarding phones. All will be transferred to SOGEA or equivilant whether they like it or not.

You can jump the gun by requesting a move to SOGEA but if you want your phone number you need to be aware of what to do to port it to a VOIP provider asap after the change. There's a few days down time on the phone service.

What's not been mentioned is VOIP doesn't work during power cuts.

E-mails are similar but, as yet, there's no news of closure. New customers do not get e-mail and departing customers cannot retail the address.

Brian

Re: What happens to my POTs-based broadband when POTs dies?

Batfrog — Sat, 18 Nov 2023 15:58:57 GMT

@bmc What's not been mentioned is VOIP doesn't work during power cuts.

E-mails are similar but, as yet, there's no news of closure. New customers do not get e-mail and departing customers cannot retail the address.

It’s quite fascinating to read posts on this forum. In this particular thread and the [expected] demise of Plusnet. As far as I can see I must agree with others given that they have or are in the process of closing one service after another.

In 20 odd years I’ve never used a Plusnet email address preferring instead one I could use with any provider, in case I changed ISP. In fact I haven’t changed ISP because Plusnet has always had good reviews and been competitive - not to mention the fun of the ‘haggling’ [nonsense] at contract renewal time !

However, I had placed an order with another ISP but due to various cockups I’ve cancelled it and decided to renew with Plusnet and go FTTP even though I’m convinced I’ll be a BT or EE customer before the end of the 24 month contract. I assume that if that were to be the case they would honour the price or let me leave without penalty.

Another point which frequently gets a mention is that VOIP won’t work during a power cut. Quite true of course but that is also true of many, perhaps most people currently on PSTN because everyone I know has cordless phones. I can’t think of anyone who doesn’t !

A point not mentioned with VOIP is that some providers at least don’t have access to services like 1471, 101, 111 etc. Apparently this is because VOIP is not [usually] tied to a geographical address as with PSTN. Not completely sure of the details on that.

I suppose we have to move with the times but change is not always for the better.

Re: What happens to my POTs-based broadband when POTs dies?

Ian06 — Mon, 20 Nov 2023 11:11:17 GMT

@Batfrog wrote:

In this particular thread and the [expected] demise of Plusnet. As far as I can see I must agree with others given that they have or are in the process of closing one service after another.

It looks to me (and I think they have said as much) like BT is splitting their customers into 3 groups that will match the three brands: Business customers - who will be serviced/managed by BT, Premium consumer customers (willing to pay more for more features and services) - who will be serviced by EE for broadband, phone and Mobile and Cost conscious customers (cheap skates) who only want cheap broadband and resist being milked for other services... who will get broadband from Plusnet. I used to be with Plusnet but moved to EE FTTP before Plusnet supported FTTP as there were no early cancellation charges if I moved to EE and took a two year contract... however it's unlikely I'll stay with EE when my contract is up. I will have to see what's on offer then and who will do a 1 year broadband only contract.

As far as PoTS is concerned anyone wanting a land line will have to go VOIP one way or another and as has been said that may well be over an 'old' copper line from your home to the cabinet - that is broadband carrying your VOIP connection. If you only want broadband then that may be FTTP (optical fibre) where it's available or copper to the cabinet where it's not - until it is.

Re: What happens to my POTs-based broadband when POTs dies?

mort7890 — Mon, 20 Nov 2023 11:21:33 GMT

Hi @jab1

First of all many thanks for your help and advice in the past. My contract with P/N expires February 2024 and most of the landline calls are scam ones, which I block, so really considering just using mobile. However unsure on the future of PN which seems a shame as I have been with them over 20 years, I appreciate technology is moving on but for me (80 next year) it is moving too fast for me, still prefer a real person behind a till or at the end of a phone.

I see you are not with P/N so I am open to and would really appreciate any suggestions but that would really depend on costs.

Once again many thanks

Jack

Re: What happens to my POTs-based broadband when POTs dies?

jab1 — Mon, 20 Nov 2023 11:42:36 GMT

@mort7890 I am now with Zen - I basically moved because I could see where they were going to move/have moved, i.e. BT Retail in all but name, which filled me with dread for the few times I would need assistance - without trying to sound boastful, I probably know more than a lot of the first-line phone support and can solve most of my issues without ISP help.

I am still on FTTC with a SoGEA (broadband only) connection, but the Zen router has a phone connection which means I still have 'landline', but it is only used for incoming calls from a couple of my contacts who, for personal reasons, still use that rather than their mobiles.

Having endured BT Retail (for my family), TalkTalk, and SKY, I personally wouldn't recommend any of them, but I suspect they are a little cheaper than Zen - with the resulting poorer service. Horses for courses, I suppose.

As a point of interest, is Full Fibre (FTTP) available to you?