topic Re: Fibre installation around the side of a property - A Question in Everything else

Fibre installation around the side of a property - A Question

TimXJR1300 — Thu, 02 Nov 2023 14:42:16 GMT

I am considering fibre installation (currently on FTTC) but have a question about installation.

Currently, the BT Master socket is at the front of the property and in that part of the building there is no mains power.

The router is at the rear of the property (there s a cat6 wire from the master socket to the router - currently looses 1kbps which is nothing) and the installation information says that the router and the ONT need to be near a double mains socket.

The current router together with TV, Phone, Media Centre, Smart Hub, Smart Lights etc.are all powered from the double socket at the rear of the property.

There is a garage on the side of the building.

How would fibre installation be possible? - Will the fibre be run round the outside of the house and through the garage and through wall at the rear?

Re: Fibre installation around the side of a property - A Question

bmc — Thu, 02 Nov 2023 15:22:22 GMT

@TimXJR1300

First question is are you fed by an overhead or underground copper cable.

The router can go where ever you like so long as you're happy running cable. It connects via ethernet cable to the ONT.

There is some lee way as to where the ONT goes but it depends on what's possible (against what's desired) and the installer - get a good one and they'll go out of their way to help is possible. This won't be known until the day of install.

Brian

Re: Fibre installation around the side of a property - A Question

TimXJR1300 — Thu, 02 Nov 2023 16:03:02 GMT

@bmc Thank you for your quick reply...

In order then..

It is an underground copper cable. I guess that the fibre will follow the same route.

The problem with the cable run is two fold in that there isn't space for a thicker Ethernet cable (current cable is in the gap between the bottom of the skirting boards and the floor) and I don't want an ethernet cable nailed to my skirting bards and door frames. Also there is no power where the BT Master socket is so I can't put an ONT there.

It would have to be round the rear of the property where the power is.

" get a good one and they'll go out of their way to help is possible. This won't be known until the day of install."

I guess this is the gamble that everyone has to go through and like any installer I'm sure they'll want to do this in the most time efficient way so messing about with external cable runs is something they wouldn't prefer.

Ii really don't know what to do.

Also... Openreach are retiring the copper network which I think means we will all have to go fibre at some point.

Re: Fibre installation around the side of a property - A Question

Mustrum — Thu, 02 Nov 2023 16:19:06 GMT

@TimXJR1300 The first thing to do is post a copy of the complete BTW DSL results, ideally using your phone number, or address if you don't have a phone. Include the complete tble and text below, but hide your phone/address. Use two or more pics if needed.

This will at least show how Openreach would deliver fibre - and if it is available.

https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/#/ADSL

Re: Fibre installation around the side of a property - A Question

TimXJR1300 — Thu, 02 Nov 2023 16:31:55 GMT

@Mustrum Thanks. I know its available, several neighbours have it.

Anyway.. the results are in...What's interesting is it says FTTC is unavailable but I have been on that for over 18 months. Anyway...

Re: Fibre installation around the side of a property - A Question

MisterW — Thu, 02 Nov 2023 16:40:20 GMT

What's interesting is it says FTTC is unavailable but I have been on that for over 18 months.

Yes, that's because its no longer possible to order a product that includes a landline service ( WLR withdrawal ). You can recontract on your existing product , but any product change will not include a phone service. So for a copper based broadband you can order SOGEA ( PN call it Fibre with no phone ) . Non of the FTTP ( Full fibre ) products from Plusnet include a phone service.

Re: Fibre installation around the side of a property - A Question

Mustrum — Thu, 02 Nov 2023 16:44:37 GMT

@TimXJR1300 FTTC not being available is not surprising, all analogue voice was withdrawn from new orders on 5 September.

It was the bit with the 2.5 inch plastic duct that is key - provided it is not blocked that is where the fibre will be routed. Unless you get a good fitter, and ply him wit choccy biscuits they will want the ONT to go to the nearest 13 amp socket.

If you want it elsewhere the easier you can make that for them the more chance they will do it for you. Consider trunking with a draw rope or anything else that can be done.

Re: Fibre installation around the side of a property - A Question

TimXJR1300 — Thu, 02 Nov 2023 16:53:16 GMT

@Mustrum Thanks.

"It was the bit with the 2.5 inch plastic duct that is key - provided it is not blocked that is where the fibre will be routed. Unless you get a good fitter, and ply him wit choccy biscuits they will want the ONT to go to the nearest 13 amp socket."

This is the problem as per my first post. There is no power where that comes into the house, nearest usable power is on the other side of the building so I am stuck.

Re: Fibre installation around the side of a property - A Question

TimXJR1300 — Thu, 02 Nov 2023 16:54:57 GMT

PS: The router is also round the other side of the building.

One day they may invent an ONT with WiFi built in!

Re: Fibre installation around the side of a property - A Question

bmc — Thu, 02 Nov 2023 17:02:30 GMT

@TimXJR1300

WBC FTTC is unavailable because WBC FTTP is - it always takes priority. What is also available is WBC SOGEA which is FTTC without a phone line. PN will renew your contract as is but at some point will move you onto SOGEA.

The copper network isn't being withdrawn as such - it will still exist between your Cabinet and your house. What is going is the PSTN phone service. Heavy duty copper cable may be removed between the Exchange and your Cabinet in due course if it's ecomonical to recycle (if it's not stolen first).

At some point you will lose your phone line and number. It this matters then you need to start looking at VOIP. Note this doesn't work during power cuts.

As to the FTTP install itself where the copper cable comes out of the ground is the probable starting point for an FTTP install. After that it's down to what's feasible and what the installer is willing to do. You won't know until the day. Note you also get an external wall box fitted.

Brian

Re: Fibre installation around the side of a property - A Question

Dan_the_Van — Thu, 02 Nov 2023 17:14:07 GMT

@TimXJR1300

Have you considered having the ONT in the garage and running cat5e or better cable to the routers location? Obviously you will need a power socket in the garage.

You would also have control on how the network cable is run.

Re: Fibre installation around the side of a property - A Question

TimXJR1300 — Thu, 02 Nov 2023 17:35:33 GMT

@Dan_the_Van If the ONT could go in the garage then the installer could drill through the garage wall into the very room where the router is. That is not a problem and there is no shortage of power in the garage.

Imagine a row of houses and you are looking at the last one on the right. It has a substantial garage built onto the right of the house. Front door on the left.

The BT duct comes in on the left of the front door. There is no power there. To put the ONT in the garage (which I think is the best solution) somehow the fibre will need to exit the duct, get around the front door, past a window, round the side of the building and through the garage wall next to the roller door nito the garage to the ONT which would be at the back of the garage. A hole through into the house at that point brings it neatly to the TV, Media etc. Right next to a double socket. IDEAL.

Even if I was to spend a fortune on having power installed in that part of the house where the BT pipework is, I'd still have the problem of running a fat ethernet cable all the way through the house which is not acceptable.

My mindset now is that this is too difficult because it would be a non standard "shove the fibre up the duct drill a hole plug in switch on" job and so the only viable option is to renew my current package. This of course means £ for £ I will be paying more money for a slower service which is very disappointing.

Re: Fibre installation around the side of a property - A Question

bmc — Thu, 02 Nov 2023 19:09:38 GMT

@TimXJR1300

I don't know if it's possible but you could try asking for a OpenReach survey to see what can be done. This would give you clarity. Phone the PlusNet Customer Options Team on 0800 013 2632

Although it would involve two holes being drilled it's potentially not the worst install option I've heard about. The cable would be taken up the wall to first floor hight, run along to the corner of the house, down (probably) to the garage height, along the wall to the garage, through the wall and then to the back of the garage. It would depend on the installer on the day unless OpenReach agree to it in advance.

Brian

Re: Fibre installation around the side of a property - A Question

dvorak — Thu, 02 Nov 2023 19:18:06 GMT

Moderators Note

This topic has been moved from Full Fibre to Everything Else

Re: Fibre installation around the side of a property - A Question

TimXJR1300 — Thu, 02 Nov 2023 20:12:13 GMT

@bmc Thanks, is with a punt. Watch this space 👍

Re: Fibre installation around the side of a property - A Question

bmc — Fri, 03 Nov 2023 12:35:29 GMT

@TimXJR1300

Couple of things to think about if OR agree to a survey.

Can you lay a duct along the front of the house from approxiately where the copper cable comes in to the point of the garage where the cable would come indoors.

You spoke in an earlier post of the ONT being in the garage. If this is acceptable to you then OR need only drill one hole for the install. You would be responsible for drilling through the internal wall to run an ethernet cable to the router indoors. However, unless it's a big hole you'd need to be able "make up" an ethernet connection once the cable is pushed through.

Brian

Re: Fibre installation around the side of a property - A Question

MisterW — Fri, 03 Nov 2023 12:44:36 GMT

I believe OR will run up to 10m of Fibre internally to the ONT. So if they can be pursuaded to put the CSP (grey box) on the garage wall, then they can probably run the internal fibre through the garage to the ONT in the house. You will have to drill any internal walls yourself though...

Re: Fibre installation around the side of a property - A Question

James30 — Fri, 03 Nov 2023 13:31:38 GMT

Just for context, my FTTP installer was very flexible, I drilled the holes first as I wanted the best chances of getting the ONT in a cupboard not used previously for FTTC, I was worried about their policy about clipping the internal part of the FTTP line to the wall and using the round plastic liners to go in the wall but he wasn't overly concerned, in fact left it lose so I could put the line in trucking and left the ONT in the cupboard lose so I could put where I want on the wall later on.

A take from this then is that if you think it all through first they will probably accommodate where you want it as long as it's sensible. Unsure about distances however the connectors on the end of are pre made and molded so there will be a max length cable they are sent to the job with.

Re: Fibre installation around the side of a property - A Question

TimXJR1300 — Fri, 03 Nov 2023 15:37:03 GMT

To everyone..

Thank you for your support and suggestions which were very helpful.

For me, drilling holes and laying ducts are not something I am willing to do or capable of undertaking. I get that this is new infrastructure but I don't get why it is up to me to do a whole bunch of civil engineering to make it happen.

The complications of no power at the front, 15 internal cable metres between the front of the house and the router location together with the apparent random willingness of different engineers to either do the minimum or go above and beyond means that this project will go on the too difficult pile for now.

I will renew my current contract though seek improved price or speed or both.

This at least gives me 18 months breathing space and it gives the industry 18 months to improve their game and do proper installs.

Once again, thanks for your responses.