topic Re: Full Fibre - Losing my landline in Everything else

Full Fibre - Losing my landline

pfurness — Mon, 10 Jul 2023 20:07:55 GMT

I started to upgrade to Full Fibre and got a message about losing my landline. After that the explanations sounded a bit uncertain. Before I go further I'm left wondering...

1) I don't mind 'losing' my landline if I keep my landline number. Will all the people who use my current landline number still get routed to the same place using VOIP without noticing the difference?

2) My house is quite large and has very thick walls. It has copper wires routing the landline phone to handsets in five different locations. Will these still work? The help pages just vaguely mention needing 'adapters'. Tell me more???

3) The house size and thick walls mean a single WiFi transmitter won't work. I currently have a 'powerline network' using ethernet over the mains electrical cables to attach two wifi extenders in other parts of the house. Will they still work?

Thanks in advance for any advice!

Re: Full Fibre - Losing my landline

bmc — Mon, 10 Jul 2023 21:30:16 GMT

@pfurness

1) People phoning you should not notice any difference.

2) Whole world of pain with this one. You do need an adapter between the PN router and your phone. As to using existing wired connections I did read a good while back it was possible though I can't really remember details. Only thing that comes to mind is the incoming BT cable needs to be disconnected from the Master socket. You need to do some research on this.

3) Power line units should continue to work. Depending on what FTTP speed you go for you'll need to check the units can handle faster speeds.

Brian

Re: Full Fibre - Losing my landline

markhawkin — Mon, 10 Jul 2023 22:18:38 GMT

The “lose your landline” warning is literally “it will be gone” the number returned to the number pool to be allocated to someone else.

If that’s ok, proceed.

You MAY be able to retrieve it with a VoIP service but I wouldn’t count on it.

Landlines, Plusnet and FTTP is a complex subject. You can move to BT who do have a landline over FTTP and if the number has value that’s probably the best bet

Re: Full Fibre - Losing my landline

jab1 — Tue, 11 Jul 2023 06:02:56 GMT

@markhawkin Not strictly true, the number has to remain in a suspended state for 30 days to allow for transfer to a VoIP provider of your choice, should you wish to use such a service.

Re: Full Fibre - Losing my landline

Anonymous — Tue, 11 Jul 2023 08:49:18 GMT

@pfurness

"It has copper wires routing the landline phone to handsets in five different locations. Will these still work?"

In the "old" days, (I did my BT apprenticeship over 40 years ago!), telephone "instruments" had a REN, (Ringer Equivalence Number). A basic dial phone had a REN of 1 for example - other phones had different values. ISTR that the maximum REN on a line, (the sum of all the RENs of the phones connected), for reliable operation, was 4? Depending upon which phones you have, you may be just lucky that 5 connected still work OK?

The power to make your phones ring at the moment comes from the telephone exchange. If you move to Full Fibre and have an "adapter" for VOIP telephony, this ringing power will have to come from the adapter.

I haven't seen REN quoted in a 'phones specs for a long time - is it still a "thing"?

https://www.britishtelephones.com/ren.htm

Re: Full Fibre - Losing my landline

seebee — Tue, 11 Jul 2023 09:05:25 GMT

If you want to keep your five extensions working, you could try feeding them from the output of your VOIP adaptor.

How to Connect Landline Phones / Extensions to VOIP on Fibre Internet - YouTube

The diagram of the basic idea is at 5:22

Re: Full Fibre - Losing my landline

Baldrick1 — Tue, 11 Jul 2023 09:17:31 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

@pfurness

I haven't seen REN quoted in a 'phones specs for a long time - is it still a "thing"?

Grandstream quote a REN of 3 for the HT812 and 2 for the HT814. I haven’t checked their other offerings.

It all depends on the REN of modern phones. Again I haven’t checked but suspect manufacturers simply round up their specs to 1.

Re: Full Fibre - Losing my landline

pfurness — Tue, 11 Jul 2023 11:35:08 GMT

Thanks. I was aware of the REN limit, but when I connected five it worked!

In fact I can cope with just three, but they are in different parts of the house so the question is how to use the wires that are embedded in the walls. It sounds possible...

Re: Full Fibre - Losing my landline

Anonymous — Tue, 11 Jul 2023 11:39:18 GMT

@pfurness

Do all 5 plugged in phones actually have to ring?

I'm wondering if it is possible to turn off the ringer on at least one of the phones? Will you still be able to hear ringing in all parts of the house?

That might, (or might not!), reduce the REN - if you do find that you need to do that.

Re: Full Fibre - Losing my landline

pjmarsh — Tue, 11 Jul 2023 11:44:13 GMT

Are all the phones just plugged into the phoneline, or do any of them plug into the mains as well? I'd guess if they are mains powered then they will take little of the power from the phoneline.

Re: Full Fibre - Losing my landline

pfurness — Tue, 11 Jul 2023 11:55:44 GMT

All our phones have their own mains power supply.

But that's not now my main problem. I just phoned PlusNet support and it sounds as though even if I manage to keep my landline number it will require a different VoIP supplier (and a fee) and there will be a connection delay (how long???) while the landline number doesn't work. I was told the only way to avoid that is to change to an internet provider that also does VoIP, such as BT. But then I'd lose my PlusNet email address.

Oh dear. This needs more research. Why can't life be made simple?

Re: Full Fibre - Losing my landline

pfurness — Tue, 11 Jul 2023 12:02:08 GMT

What's more, checking the internet for VoIP suppliers they mostly seem to regard their market as businesses, not domestic users. That will surely change by 2025 when the landlines are turned off! But for now, can anyone recommend a good (and cheap) domestic VoIP supplier?

Re: Full Fibre - Losing my landline

MisterW — Tue, 11 Jul 2023 12:04:16 GMT

https://www.aa.net.uk/voice-and-mobile/voip-information/

Re: Full Fibre - Losing my landline

markhawkin — Tue, 11 Jul 2023 12:22:20 GMT

@pfurness

I entirely agree with your comment “Why can't life be made simple?”

It seems to have been a BT policy decision that Plusnet doesn’t provide landlines (essentially once the traditional landline “stop sell” happens).

You come down to a tricky decision of which of your phone number or your email address is most valuable.

A complete guess, but I wouldn’t give the email service too long either.

Re: Full Fibre - Losing my landline

bmc — Tue, 11 Jul 2023 21:05:44 GMT

@pfurness

Have a look at the thread "Successfull FTTP upgrade and landline port out" on the My Order board.

Brian

Re: Full Fibre - Losing my landline

pfurness — Mon, 31 Jul 2023 08:53:51 GMT

An update and happy conclusion. Transfer to FTTP and a new VoIP provider worked. My landline AND broadband were cut off by PlusNet in the morning and FTTP was not established by OpenReach until late afternoon, but that was the only downtime.

I've now answered the question no-one seemed sure about. I CAN have multiple analogue handsets around the home with just one VoIP account - here's how. I persuaded the OpenReach engineer to cut off the wire to my old BT master socket, but leave the socket in place, because it has wired links to other BT-type sockets around the house. I bought a GrandStream analogue telephone adapter, connected its Ethernet to my router and connected its RS11 port to my old BT master socket. Hey presto, all the old BT sockets round my home work with the old analogue handsets as if nothing had changed. Brilliant.

Notes of caution:

The OpenReach engineer had an instruction to remove the old BT master socket. I had to be quite insistent to persuade him to leave it in place.

Configuration was not entirely straightforward but the support person from my new VoIP provider (Dial9) was very quick and helpful.

I had not realised that a VoIP service only permits one 'device' to be connected per line. In my case that's now the GrandStream adapter, which is obviously happy to accept being connected downstream to multiple analogue devices.

My analogue handsets all have their own power supply; I don't know what would happen if they took their power from the old phone line.

The OpenReach engineer was surprisingly ignorant as to how to connect my old router to the new service. He knew to plug it into the yellow WAN port, but I had to log into my router's management interface and configure it myself. That surprised me - doesn't he have to help with that on every domestic job?

Incidentally, I chose my VoIP provider from the few that responded quickly to my many requests for pricing information. I think that was a good idea, because subsequent email requests for support were answered, by an intelligent human, just as quickly. Two of the VoIP providers I contacted didn't get round to answering my request for contract information for over a week. I wouldn't want to have to use their support systems!

Re: Full Fibre - Losing my landline

pjmarsh — Mon, 31 Jul 2023 09:09:18 GMT

I'm glad you're all up and working relatively pain free.

Just a note on your comment on "I had not realised that a VoIP service only permits one 'device' to be connected per line". This may vary between provider. Two of my VOIP accounts (with different suppliers) I used to have 2 devices registered with, and at times 3 devices with at least one of them. For other people, if you are wanting multiple devices registered against a single account then it may be worth checking with the supplier before signing up.

Re: Full Fibre - Losing my landline

MisterW — Mon, 31 Jul 2023 09:11:12 GMT

I had not realised that a VoIP service only permits one 'device' to be connected per line.

@pfurness that's not necessarily true, it depends on the VOIP provider. For instance, my Sipgate account will allow multiple devices to be connected (registered) and incoming calls will ring all devices. A & A also allow multiple devices but Localphone dont.

edit: @pjmarsh types faster than me

Re: Full Fibre - Losing my landline

pfurness — Mon, 31 Jul 2023 09:44:23 GMT

Thanks. Dial9 explained that with their system I could have several devices connected to one VoIP phone number but each would have to be logged with them as a different 'extension' (at a small extra fee) and then configured to all ring at once.

I thought I'd done quite a bit of internet research before selecting my VoIP provider, but I never saw this mentioned. Is there a comprehensive dunce's guide somewhere? If not, could someone write one (please!)?

Re: Full Fibre - Losing my landline

bmc — Mon, 31 Jul 2023 11:29:56 GMT

@pfurness

Glad it went well.

With regard to the Master Socket - If OR insist on removing it surely it would be possible to buy one online and wire it up so long as OR leave the space and wires intact.

Brian