topic Re: Plusnet/BT are routing Quad9 DNS to the USA. How should I log that? in Everything else

Plusnet/BT are routing Quad9 DNS to the USA. How should I log that?

Paul_A — Sun, 03 Sep 2023 08:56:33 GMT

Hi folks.

There is/has been a recurring issue over the last month where BT/Plusnet route traffic for 9.9.9.9 over to the USA rather than London/UK. You can see NYC in the server names below, and the massive spike in response times.

As it is a routing issue inside the ISP, will I be able I log this with support? Can they pass routing issues on to a Net Ops team?

Thanks for any input/advice.

Paul.

Tracing route to dns9.quad9.net [9.9.9.9]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 4 ms 3 ms 2 ms 192.168.0.1
2 7 ms 6 ms 6 ms 172.16.11.223
3 * * * Request timed out.
4 7 ms 7 ms 7 ms 132.hiper04.sheff.dial.plus.net.uk [195.166.143.132]
5 8 ms 7 ms 7 ms peer7-et-3-1-4.telehouse.ukcore.bt.net [109.159.252.168]
6 7 ms 7 ms 7 ms 195.66.231.9
7 8 ms 7 ms 7 ms po10.lon-thn-bb1.globalsecurelayer.com [206.148.26.8]
8 74 ms 73 ms 73 ms e52.nyc-eqxny2-bb1.globalsecurelayer.com [206.148.26.7]
9 73 ms 73 ms 76 ms po2.nyc-eqxny2-cr2.globalsecurelayer.com [206.148.25.44]
10 73 ms 75 ms 73 ms po10-4092.nyc-eqxny2-sw4.globalsecurelayer.com [206.148.25.75]
11 74 ms 73 ms 73 ms 160.202.167.67
12 74 ms 73 ms 73 ms dns9.quad9.net [9.9.9.9]

Re: Plusnet/BT are routing Quad9 DNS to the USA. How should I log that?

Baldrick1 — Sun, 03 Sep 2023 09:19:55 GMT

Moderator’s Note

This topic has been moved from Broadband to Everything Else

Re: Plusnet/BT are routing Quad9 DNS to the USA. How should I log that?

seebee — Sun, 03 Sep 2023 12:24:25 GMT

FWIW, I've just switched from PlusNet to NowTV and I see the same thing, so it isn't just PlusNet:

$ traceroute 9.9.9.9
traceroute to 9.9.9.9 (9.9.9.9), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets
 1  OpenWrt22.home.arpa (192.168.203.1)  0.856 ms  0.853 ms  0.943 ms
 2  192.168.0.1 (192.168.0.1)  5.589 ms  6.292 ms  6.220 ms
 3  * * *
 4  02780ee1.bb.sky.com (2.120.14.225)  22.163 ms  28.104 ms  28.050 ms
 5  02780ed5.bb.sky.com (2.120.14.213)  23.348 ms  27.903 ms  28.315 ms
 6  po150.lon-thn-bb1.globalsecurelayer.com (206.148.26.12)  28.244 ms  22.689 ms  23.856 ms
 7  e52.nyc-eqxny2-bb1.globalsecurelayer.com (206.148.26.7)  85.721 ms  86.871 ms  91.243 ms
 8  po2.nyc-eqxny2-cr2.globalsecurelayer.com (206.148.25.44)  91.849 ms  91.787 ms  93.402 ms
 9  po10-4092.nyc-eqxny2-sw4.globalsecurelayer.com (206.148.25.75)  93.426 ms  95.090 ms  95.930 ms
10  160.202.167.67 (160.202.167.67)  97.020 ms  96.959 ms  96.893 ms
11  dns9.quad9.net (9.9.9.9)  100.761 ms !X  89.596 ms !X  90.927 ms !X

compare with eg

$ traceroute 1.1.1.1
traceroute to 1.1.1.1 (1.1.1.1), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets
 1  OpenWrt22.home.arpa (192.168.203.1)  0.986 ms  0.997 ms  0.929 ms
 2  192.168.0.1 (192.168.0.1)  6.634 ms  6.588 ms  10.466 ms
 3  * * *
 4  02780edf.bb.sky.com (2.120.14.223)  20.219 ms 02780ee1.bb.sky.com (2.120.14.225)  25.411 ms  27.096 ms
 5  02780ed5.bb.sky.com (2.120.14.213)  28.253 ms 02780ed3.bb.sky.com (2.120.14.211)  24.043 ms 02780ed5.bb.sky.com (2.120.14.213)  25.159 ms
 6  162.158.72.3 (162.158.72.3)  26.775 ms 172.70.160.4 (172.70.160.4)  16.634 ms 172.70.94.4 (172.70.94.4)  19.003 ms
 7  one.one.one.one (1.1.1.1)  19.039 ms  11.537 ms  12.706 ms

Re: Plusnet/BT are routing Quad9 DNS to the USA. How should I log that?

Anonymous — Sun, 03 Sep 2023 12:59:10 GMT

I currently have IPv4 with Plusnet, but also IPv6 via an HE 6in4 tunnel which coincidentally has it's endpoint located in the same "Telehouse" building in London as my Plusnet connection.

If I traceroute using IPv4 over Plusnet I get this -

Loss% Snt Last Avg Best Wrst StDev 1.|-- My_Home_Router 0.0% 10 0.2 0.2 0.1 0.2 0.0 2.|-- 250.core.plus.net 0.0% 10 6.0 5.9 5.7 6.1 0.2 3.|-- 84.93.253.83 0.0% 10 6.5 6.6 6.4 6.9 0.2 4.|-- 195.99.125.136 0.0% 10 6.5 6.8 6.3 8.9 0.8 5.|-- peer7-et-4-0-4.telehouse.ukcore.bt.net 0.0% 10 6.8 7.4 6.3 9.3 1.2 6.|-- ? ? ? 100.0 10 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 7.|-- po10.lon-thn-bb1.globalsecurelayer.com 0.0% 10 6.7 6.7 6.5 6.9 0.1 8.|-- e52.nyc-eqxny2-bb1.globalsecurelayer.com 0.0% 10 73.2 74.1 72.4 79.8 2.3 9.|-- po2.nyc-eqxny2-cr2.globalsecurelayer.com 0.0% 10 72.4 73.0 72.4 75.4 0.9 10.|-- po10-4092.nyc-eqxny2-sw4.globalsecurelayer.com 0.0% 10 72.4 72.7 72.3 73.0 0.3 11.|-- 160.202.167.67 0.0% 10 73.2 73.0 72.8 73.2 0.1 12.|-- dns9.quad9.net 0.0% 10 73.4 73.3 72.7 74.8 0.6

However a traceroute using IPv6 over Hurricane Electric I get this -

Loss% Snt Last Avg Best Wrst StDev 1.|-- My_Home_Router 0.0% 10 0.3 0.3 0.2 0.3 0.0 2.|-- My_Tunnel_ID.tserv5.lon1.ipv6.he.net 0.0% 10 10.6 17.6 8.9 88.7 25.0 3.|-- e0-19.core2.lon2.he.net 0.0% 10 8.0 15.0 7.7 73.2 20.5 4.|-- ? ? ? 100.0 10 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 5.|-- 2001:7f8:4::2a:1 40.0% 10 37.1 12.8 7.6 37.1 11.9 6.|-- dns9.quad9.net 0.0% 10 39.5 16.0 7.1 60.0 18.4

Having a Quad9 DNS average latency of 73ms over IPv4, is a bit different from 16ms over IPv6 !. 🙄

Re: Plusnet/BT are routing Quad9 DNS to the USA. How should I log that?

Anonymous — Tue, 05 Sep 2023 17:36:01 GMT

Just to add some more detail than I provided in the previous reply two days ago,

Today I moved ISP from Plusnet to A&A, so below are my traceroutes using the new A&A connection -

A&A IPv4 -

Loss% Snt Last Avg Best Wrst StDev 1.|-- My_Home_Router 0.0% 10 0.2 0.2 0.1 0.2 0.0 2.|-- t.gormless.thn.aa.net.uk 0.0% 10 6.2 6.2 6.1 6.6 0.1 3.|-- k-aimless.thn.aa.net.uk 0.0% 10 6.4 6.5 6.1 7.0 0.3 4.|-- 195.66.225.238 0.0% 10 7.1 7.6 7.1 10.0 0.8 5.|-- dns9.quad9.net 0.0% 10 6.7 6.8 6.3 7.3 0.3

A&A IPv6 -

Loss% Snt Last Avg Best Wrst StDev 1.|-- My_Home_Router 0.0% 10 0.2 0.3 0.2 0.3 0.0 2.|-- t.gormless.thn.aa.net.uk 0.0% 10 6.4 6.2 6.0 6.6 0.2 3.|-- k-aimless.thn.aa.net.uk 0.0% 10 6.6 6.5 6.2 6.7 0.1 4.|-- 2001:7f8:4::2a:1 0.0% 10 7.2 7.1 6.7 7.4 0.2 5.|-- dns9.quad9.net 0.0% 10 6.7 6.6 6.4 6.8 0.1

In both cases, fewer hops and much lower latency ! 😀

Re: Plusnet/BT are routing Quad9 DNS to the USA. How should I log that?

greygit1 — Tue, 05 Sep 2023 20:31:17 GMT

The rDNS on A&A's routers? VBG.

Re: Plusnet/BT are routing Quad9 DNS to the USA. How should I log that?

Anonymous — Tue, 05 Sep 2023 22:57:09 GMT

@greygit1 other A&A server names can be found here - https://support.aa.net.uk/Server_List

Including -

"voiceless" = VoIP server
"priceless" = Accounts
"thankless" = ticketing system
"clueless" = control pages
"spamless" = SPAM control
"bottomless" = ppp and ping endpoints

I'm a little surprised that the NTP server wasn't named "timeless" !

Re: Plusnet/BT are routing Quad9 DNS to the USA. How should I log that?

greygit1 — Tue, 05 Sep 2023 23:53:33 GMT

This may fly over your head, but I'm wondering whether someone in A&A may be considering a server named "witless". It'd match up with "clueless".

The naming of the ticketing system as "thankless" has a certain irony. And accounts as "priceless" - well 'nuff said. Ping (ICMP?) end-points? There's games to be had there in that bottomless pIT.

I'm very much enjoying their SoH.

A&A (Andrews and Arnold in long-hand) used to (almost) expect their customers to run their own mail servers. So I have a certain amount of ungrudging respect for them.

I wish you well.

Re: Plusnet/BT are routing Quad9 DNS to the USA. How should I log that?

Paul_A — Thu, 07 Sep 2023 17:34:50 GMT

Thanks folks. I also have friend on Virgin Media who doesn't see this issue.

Has anyone ever called Support about an issue like this? I'm I likely to get anywhere?

Might just take the plunge and call.

Re: Plusnet/BT are routing Quad9 DNS to the USA. How should I log that?

greygit1 — Thu, 14 Sep 2023 23:57:14 GMT

Do they have a DNSless?

(mulling over anycast, DoH, DoT, DoQ and cloudflare)

Re: Plusnet/BT are routing Quad9 DNS to the USA. How should I log that?

Baldrick1 — Fri, 15 Sep 2023 06:19:23 GMT

@Paul_A wrote:

Has anyone ever called Support about an issue like this? I'm I likely to get anywhere?

Might just take the plunge and call.

Plusnet provide their own DNS servers. Telephone CSAs do not have the the brief to support third party services

Re: Plusnet/BT are routing Quad9 DNS to the USA. How should I log that?

corringham — Fri, 15 Sep 2023 09:45:23 GMT

@Baldrick1 wrote:

Plusnet provide their own DNS servers. Telephone CSAs do not have the the brief to support third party services

But it isn't a DNS issue, it is a routing/peering issue.

With my ISP traceroute shows 6 hops and a maximum ping of 8.9ms.

Re: Plusnet/BT are routing Quad9 DNS to the USA. How should I log that?

Paul_A — Sat, 16 Sep 2023 10:17:47 GMT

Hi everyone. Thanks for all the feedback and input.

I'd like to start by apologising if the nature or tone of these questions and posts comes across as rude or derogatory regarding support or the service. It wasn't the intention.

I'm also starting to think I've misunderstood the issue. I guess if a 3rd party network is advertising routes to the US for a given IP, that's not really a PlusNet/BT issue.

I'll leave this open a little longer in case anyone wants to reply and then look to close it.