topic Re: Website flagged as Hate Speech incorrectly on Safeguard in Everything else

Website flagged as Hate Speech incorrectly on Safeguard

marcKV — Thu, 27 Jul 2023 14:47:08 GMT

Hi there, my portfolio website has been labelled as Hate Speech on the Plusnet safeguard system. This is absolutely not the case and I would like help getting it recategorised please.
I see a few people on the forum have managed to fix this issue with help from @bobpullen

The website is marckeeling.co.uk, and is literally just some 3d renders and descriptions of my work. The only thing I can think that could have flagged the system is mentioning the word 'disabled' when referring to a group of artists I worked with, which is a bit crazy. I have changed the term to SENT artists to avoid it, but still need help getting it unfiltered please.

Re: Website flagged as Hate Speech incorrectly on Safeguard

198kHz — Thu, 27 Jul 2023 16:01:42 GMT

Welcome to the forum. 🙂

On the portfolio page, could "Frogland" be misconstrued as anti-French? 🤔

Re: Website flagged as Hate Speech incorrectly on Safeguard

marcKV — Thu, 27 Jul 2023 16:20:01 GMT

Perhaps, but misconstrued is the correct word. It's a world where all the characters are frogs and is set in the USA. The point still stands. We can't have a system where websites are automatically flagged as inappropriate without a way to manually fix the problem when it is a clear mistake.

I don't even have safeguard turned on, the categories are set to blocked, but the system itself is off. As soon as I disable that hate & intolerance block though, it allows me through to the website.

Re: Website flagged as Hate Speech incorrectly on Safeguard

James30 — Thu, 27 Jul 2023 16:26:22 GMT

@marcKV - That's a bit tricky as it's all automatic. You can exclude a site but common knowledge of what triggers it is a hard kept secret or it would be easily bypassed. I would have thought to be foolproof other domains that sound like you would want to be taken into consideration as well as . If your familiar with SPAM filtering it's not just a simple as looking at the words and matching them with a list of hateful words these days.

Perhaps you could create a blank basic HTLM file and see if that flags so you can at least eliminate the content of the page being an issue.

Re: Website flagged as Hate Speech incorrectly on Safeguard

marcKV — Thu, 27 Jul 2023 16:36:50 GMT

@James30 Thanks for the reply.

you could create a blank basic HTLM file and see if that flags so you can at least eliminate the content of the page being an issue.

Are you saying it's a process that occurs when visiting the website, ie it is scanned at the point of visiting it, rather than the site being added to a list?
That suggests if I find the problematic word and remove it, it will solve the issue?

If your familiar with SPAM filtering it's not just a simple as looking at the words and matching them with a list of hateful words these days.

It must be, because there is nothing on that website that is hateful, to even suggest it is absurd.
The only cause can be the words in the project description or titles being present in a list somewhere.

It doesn't seem fair that websites can be blocked based by an automatic process with no way to manually solve the problem. Someone should be able to visit by site and flag it as safe after a manual review when requested.

Re: Website flagged as Hate Speech incorrectly on Safeguard

James30 — Thu, 27 Jul 2023 17:17:37 GMT

@marcKV - Lets not forget, Safeguard is a parental tool designed to protect children. So something about the site raises an eyebrow not just the content but many other factors like the domain name, even could be IP addresses hosting the site thats triggered it. It's then blocked then parents would get it in the ear from the kids so that the parents can check the site and allow it on the portal so they can access it. The point I'm making is that the workings of Safeguard isn't know and isn't public knowledge and as a parent myself I would rather safeguard be on the side of caution rather than the other way round. This is the spiel about it @ https://www.plus.net/help/broadband/how-to-use-plusnet-safeguard/

Re: Website flagged as Hate Speech incorrectly on Safeguard

marcKV — Thu, 27 Jul 2023 17:27:50 GMT

@James30 But it is being blocked even if safeguard is turned off.
What you are affectively asking me to do, is any visitor to my site who uses plusnet, must disable hate and intolerance in the safeguard categories, even if safeguard is not enabled. How can I possibly ask someone to do that.
I don't think it is unreasonable for me to point out that safeguard is not working correctly in this matter. If it is flagging me via the IP address due to the hosting, that is also an error in safeguard.
I'm not getting close to fixing this it seems.

Re: Website flagged as Hate Speech incorrectly on Safeguard

James30 — Thu, 27 Jul 2023 17:56:17 GMT

@marcKV I'm sorry my bad. I didn't realise it was happening even when safeguard is off. Off means off so there's something broken here. Just to check then, right now with Safeguard off visiting marckeeling.co.uk, what do you see, can you screenshot it?

Re: Website flagged as Hate Speech incorrectly on Safeguard

marcKV — Thu, 27 Jul 2023 18:08:14 GMT

@James30

If give an error similar to that of having no connection at all.
If I disable the category then it loads fine.

Re: Website flagged as Hate Speech incorrectly on Safeguard

MisterW — Thu, 27 Jul 2023 18:32:27 GMT

AFAIK turning Safeguard off won't take effect until the connection is restarted. Safeguard works by assigning different DNS servers and they only get reassigned on a pppoe connection establisment

Re: Website flagged as Hate Speech incorrectly on Safeguard

James30 — Thu, 27 Jul 2023 18:35:43 GMT

@marcKV - On the face of it, it doesn't look relating to safeguard to me unless there's is some really quirky network issue. I can access it here, look's pretty snazzy I must say. I've seen similar issues accessing a random site like a network level block on your IP address on the webserver. Although the IP's are dynamic and should change, they aren't forced to and yours has been the same for while. Usually I would suggest rebooting the router to get you a new IP assigned but if it hasn't done it yet then I can't see it doing it now. Daft question but can you get on other sites and have you tried another devices on the same network?

We could try assigning a static IP?

Re: Website flagged as Hate Speech incorrectly on Safeguard

marcKV — Thu, 27 Jul 2023 18:46:46 GMT

@MisterW
Yeah thanks I am aware of that. Safeguard wasn't never enabled. This started happening about 4 days ago. Safeguard was off, and have always been off, however those three categories are enabled by default.
It was suggested to me by technical support that I disable the catagories to check if somehow safeguard was causing the problem. As soon as I turned the hate and intolerance option off (safeguard still being off) and restarting the modem, the website loaded. I have since experimented with it on or off, but it makes no difference for my particular website.
If hate and intolerance is enabled, it doesn't matter whether safeguard is on or off, the website will not load.
Even if this is fixed, it still doesn't help me unflag it as inappropriate. I have removed the words "frogland" and "disabled" which were used completely without malice, and this hasn't helped either.

Re: Website flagged as Hate Speech incorrectly on Safeguard

marcKV — Thu, 27 Jul 2023 18:46:13 GMT

@James30
Yes I have tried on different networks, they work fine.
Plus connecting to a VPN works from the same PC.
If I used the same network on a different device, then it also doesn't work until that option is disabled.

It is definitely Safeguard related at least (maybe a bug ofc) because I have tested it 10-15 times turning "hate and intolerance" options off and on.
The site only loads when that category is disabled (again it doesn't matter whether safeguards main switch is on or off).

The steps I have repeatedly tried:
Safe guard off - Hate and intolerance on - restart modem: Website doesnt load and gives that error
Safeguard off - Hate and intolerance off - restart modem: Website loads
Safeguard on - Hate and intolerance off - restart modem: Website loads
Safeguard on - Hate and intolerance on - restart modem: Website doesnt load and gives that error

I have tried this many times.

I will add that it doesn't seem to affect any other websites for the sake of experiment.
For example adult content can be accessed with the category "pornography" enabled with safeguard turned off. If I turn safeguard on while that category is enabled, then it cannot.

It only seems to be my site that is suffering the issue.

Re: Website flagged as Hate Speech incorrectly on Safeguard

James30 — Thu, 27 Jul 2023 18:53:18 GMT

I think for now to simplify things we need to ask the question why when safeguard is off is it having a affect on the websites you access. Just to check you have change any settings on the router/ device relating to DNS address?

Here's the DNS address we give to the router depending on weather it's on or off - About DNS server and website settings | Help | Plusnet

Can you reboot the router again?

Re: Website flagged as Hate Speech incorrectly on Safeguard

marcKV — Thu, 27 Jul 2023 19:23:54 GMT

@James30
I haven't changed anything personally.

Primary DNS: 212.159.13.52
Secondary DNS: 212.159.13.51

Should I change them to the ones on the link you sent?

Re: Website flagged as Hate Speech incorrectly on Safeguard

Anonymous — Fri, 28 Jul 2023 07:58:56 GMT

@James30

@James30 wrote:

Here's the DNS address we give to the router depending on weather it's on or off - About DNS server and website settings | Help | Plusnet

You might want to get that help page about DNS settings updated, as the Plusnet DNS addresses were recently updated -

https://community.plus.net/t5/Tech-Help-Software-Hardware-etc/Has-Plusnet-server-212-159-6-9-just-gone-down/m-p/1929194#M94675

I also wonder whether this recent change to the DNS platform is related to @marcKV 's problem ?

@marcKV wrote:

Primary DNS: 212.159.13.52
Secondary DNS: 212.159.13.51

Should I change them to the ones on the link you sent?

The DNSs you listed are the latest addresses that you are intended to use going forward, however it would be interesting to see whether using the previous DNS addresses (from that link) makes any difference to your issue, to see whether the new DNS platform behaves differently in being more sensitive to detecting 'hate speech' ?

Re: Website flagged as Hate Speech incorrectly on Safeguard

seebee — Fri, 28 Jul 2023 09:03:04 GMT

It does not appear that SafeGuard is blocking your address to me.

I have SafeGuard on anyway, including "Hate & Intolerance - Blocked" and your site works fine for me on my PlusNet connection.

SafeGuard is DNS based, and should be handing you DNS servers:
nameserver 213.120.234.42
nameserver 213.120.234.38

asking either of those servers for your website address responds correctly.

>nslookup marckeeling.co.uk. 213.120.234.38
Server: indnsc102.ukcore.bt.net
Address: 213.120.234.38

Non-authoritative answer:
Name: marckeeling.co.uk
Address: 160.153.138.203

same as asking Google Public DNS

>nslookup marckeeling.co.uk. 8.8.8.8
Server: dns.google
Address: 8.8.8.8

Non-authoritative answer:
Name: marckeeling.co.uk
Address: 160.153.138.203

whereas, asking for a blocked site gives a dummy BT IP address (so it can intercept and say its blocked)

>nslookup sex.com. 213.120.234.38
Server: indnsc102.ukcore.bt.net
Address: 213.120.234.38

Non-authoritative answer:
Name: sex.com
Address: 81.130.111.239

and

>nslookup porn.com. 213.120.234.38
Server: indnsc102.ukcore.bt.net
Address: 213.120.234.38

Non-authoritative answer:
Name: porn.com
Address: 81.130.111.239

Note the answer is the same for the blocked sites

So using SafeGuard on my plusnet connection, your site looks fine. I wonder if the turning on/off of SafeGuard and restarting your connection is giving you different IP addresses each time, and its one of these that is actually blocked by your host for example?

Re: Website flagged as Hate Speech incorrectly on Safeguard

marcKV — Fri, 28 Jul 2023 11:25:57 GMT

@James30

Thanks, I actually don't know how to change the DNS settings on the hub one. Or am I supposed to do this at a device level?

@seebee Thanks for looking. Yeah I don't actually think it is safeguard blocking it on purpose now, but it is still related to it in some way, as pointed out before the only way to fix it on my network is to disable that category.

So using SafeGuard on my plusnet connection, your site looks fine. I wonder if the turning on/off of SafeGuard and restarting your connection is giving you different IP addresses each time, and its one of these that is actually blocked by your host for example?

Potentially. However I don't actually have safeguard enabled. Only the category needs to be blocked for the site to stop loading. It is good to hear others arent being blocked though.

Re: Website flagged as Hate Speech incorrectly on Safeguard

seebee — Fri, 28 Jul 2023 12:07:07 GMT

The error in post 9 is a time out, which is weird.

If it were SafeGuard you typically get 2 results - if you go to a blocked "http" site you get redirected quickly to a "https://blocked.plus.net/index/..." site clearly explaining that it is blocked - if you go to a blocked "https" site you get an error like ERR_SSL_VERSION_OR_CIPHER_MISMATCH as the interception means the host is not expected.

Do you always get the timeout error? What if you try some of the nslookup commands, what do you see?

Re: Website flagged as Hate Speech incorrectly on Safeguard

marcKV — Fri, 28 Jul 2023 12:34:14 GMT

@seebee

Yes I always get the timeout error.
I am actually struggling to turn off those categories now. They keep defaulting to be back on.

Default Server: dsldevice.lan
Address: 192.168.1.254

> www.marckeeling.co.uk
Server: dsldevice.lan
Address: 192.168.1.254

Non-authoritative answer:
Name: marckeeling.co.uk
Address: 160.153.138.203
Aliases: www.marckeeling.co.uk

I get this from using nslookup, is that what you mean?