topic Re: Can I use BOTH Master and Extension Socket in my Flat in Everything else

Can I use BOTH Master and Extension Socket in my Flat

fred5 — Tue, 14 Aug 2018 19:45:00 GMT

Hello

I just moved into a new flat. The Flat has one master socket at the door (the new sockets which include filter), and an extension socket in the living room. Can I somehow use the extension socket and attach another router or modem to it to extend wifi and make ethernet available in that room too? Otherwise I have to route a massive patch cable through the entire flat.

Thanks for your help.

Best regards

Fred

Re: Can I use BOTH Master and Extension Socket in my Flat

Baldrick1 — Tue, 14 Aug 2018 20:39:01 GMT

Welcome to the forum.

The answer is no you can't use the extension cable but there are other options. Running an Ethernet cable is best and they aren't massive. CAT5e cable is about 5mm diameter. Alternatively if you want an Ethernet cable at a distant location you could try Powerline units which transfer Ethernet over the mains. These are only reliable if the mains sockets at each end are on the same circuit, that is, one circuit breaker controls the supply to both plug in units. Also why not use wireless? USB wireless units can be used if a computer doesn't have the built in capability.

If you describe your problem in more detail additional advice will be forthcoming.

Re: Can I use BOTH Master and Extension Socket in my Flat

Mav — Wed, 15 Aug 2018 05:26:54 GMT

Moderator's note:

Thread moved from Fibre Broadband to Everything Else.

Re: Can I use BOTH Master and Extension Socket in my Flat

fred5 — Wed, 15 Aug 2018 09:15:45 GMT

Thank you for your reply. Yes they are massive its about the thickest cable you can find apart from power cables.. Powerline is not an option, too many variables the can mess up transmission. Do you mean USB wifi receiver? There is no need for that.

As I already described, this is a steel reinforced concrete building, all solid walls, not as in most other buildings here that are mostly paper inside. Each room is almost like a faraday cage, the only place the wifi can get through is the doors.

Ok, can I run a patch cable from the main router/modem through a wifi repeater in the hall way, and then into the living room into a router, so that that router can produce more ethernet connection and wifi?

Thanks for your help.

Fred

Re: Can I use BOTH Master and Extension Socket in my Flat

Baldrick1 — Wed, 15 Aug 2018 12:00:18 GMT

You only want one 'router', which should be installed next to the master socket. You can then daisy chain devices from the router from room to room or connect individual units to the router LAN ports.. You do not want any additional 'routers', in circuit, rather Access Points (AP). Some routers can be set up in access point mode. The main difference is only the router should be used to control IP addresses. If you use a couple of routers configured to AP mode in the hall and living room then that will solve your problem.

Just be careful to select routers with an easily configurable AP mode.

Re: Can I use BOTH Master and Extension Socket in my Flat

fred5 — Wed, 15 Aug 2018 12:09:52 GMT

Thank you for your reply. I think what you are trying to say is, I only want one "modem" which is not the same as a router. A router is just a switch, a modem does the internet, the router is just the distributor.

So you mentioned "Daisy chaining" which means there are APs that allow a cable to be run through it?

Fred

Re: Can I use BOTH Master and Extension Socket in my Flat

Baldrick1 — Wed, 15 Aug 2018 14:29:29 GMT

A router also does things like allocate IP addresses and if you use a modem in bridge mode allows you to set up your interface with the ISP, so no, I do mean router.

If you use routers in AP mode then with most you have four LAN ports, so you can use two for daisy chaining.

Re: Can I use BOTH Master and Extension Socket in my Flat

bmc — Wed, 15 Aug 2018 14:35:45 GMT

@fred5

While it's always advised to place the modem next to the master socket you should be able to use the extension instead. You might require a filter and you might loose a bit of performance.

Before I got FTTP I used an extension socket at the back of my house for my ADSL which was wired via an upstairs extension to the Master socket at the front.

Brian

Re: Can I use BOTH Master and Extension Socket in my Flat

Townman — Wed, 15 Aug 2018 16:25:53 GMT

Hi Fred,

A warm welcome to the forums. I feel a need to get a bit pedantic here...

You can only have one modem - that might or might not be in the same unit which performs other services as well
Ideal you should have only one DHCP server, but if you know what you are doing, you could have more - the DHCP server is usually co-located in the router
You can have multiple routers, so long as you obey the rules above
You can have switches, WiFi APs, hubs etc attached to any network point

For example, in one set up I manage, I have an Archer A3 D2 modem / router installed at the master socket, that acts as the modem, a router and the DHCP server. Connected to that is an Ethernet over power network.

At the other end of that I have a Plusnet Hub One connected on port 4 with DHCP turned off. The PN H1 simply acts as a router to devices connected to it via ethernet or WiFi.

Specifically in your situation, if the telephone extension is a quality twisted pair cable, you could place your modem / router there, so long as the extension is not connected to the filtered side of the master socket filter. "standard" D profile phone extension cables are not suitable.

What is your concern with Ethernet over Power? Yes there are some poor performing products out there, but there are quality ones as well, such as the Devolo range. I have a mixed network of dLan 200 and dLan 1200+ devices and they perform well - far faster than the external link.

Re: Can I use BOTH Master and Extension Socket in my Flat

fred5 — Wed, 15 Aug 2018 14:53:44 GMT

Can I do the following: master socket -> router/modem (in my case plusnet hub one for fibre) -> ethernet cable -> AP for wifi -> ethernet cable -> Another router that can provide wifi and another 1-2 LAN ports for TV laptop etc.

Fred

Re: Can I use BOTH Master and Extension Socket in my Flat

Baldrick1 — Wed, 15 Aug 2018 15:06:15 GMT

Yes but if you are going to use two routers then as Townman sats, you have to know what you are doing. That's why I recommended that you use the second router in AP mode when it becomes simply plug and play.

Re: Can I use BOTH Master and Extension Socket in my Flat

fred5 — Wed, 15 Aug 2018 15:07:44 GMT

Thank you for your reply. I am aware, I never asked for another modem to be used, just another router, or switch/hub to be precise. I understand the premise of having one router in terms of providing networking rules and such. All I was wondering about was using the cable that leads to the extension somehow to avoid having to put a new cable in the floor, because i need access in that room. I will use the Master socket either way for the modem.

I did not find any Archer A3 modem, on that note, in terms of speed, does getting a different brand router/modem help at all?

I work for an IT retailer, so I am aware of how many people bought powerline, and how many problems arise there, and how many people return them, and finally how few people still buy these. I understand if people use them if there is no other way. But you will never ever get a faster speed and reliability through powerline than through a proper dedicated ethernet cable.

Fred

Re: Can I use BOTH Master and Extension Socket in my Flat

Baldrick1 — Wed, 15 Aug 2018 15:12:42 GMT

@bmc

The OP's description is that there is a filtered master socket plus an extension. Logic suggests that the extension is hard wired to the filtered phone output. Hence it could not be used as a feed to the modem/router unless the master socket was rewired such that the extension was unfiltered, that is, connected to the dsl output.

Re: Can I use BOTH Master and Extension Socket in my Flat

Baldrick1 — Wed, 15 Aug 2018 15:21:02 GMT

You cannot use a telephone extension cable for either a WAN or LAN connection so if the modem is next to the master socket then the extension cable cannot be used. If you want to use it to move the modem then I believe that you will need to rewire the connections in the master socket.

Re: Can I use BOTH Master and Extension Socket in my Flat

bmc — Wed, 15 Aug 2018 15:45:08 GMT

@Baldrick1 wrote:

@bmc

The OP's description is that there is a filtered master socket plus an extension. Logic suggests that the extension is hard wired to the filtered phone output. Hence it could not be used as a feed to the modem/router unless the master socket was rewired such that the extension was unfiltered, that is, connected to the dsl output.

You may be right - I don't have the technical knowledge to dispute. I do know that when I changed my faceplates years ago I had to be careful how I rewired the master socket / extensions.

However, there's no harm in trying if the modem in the extension would save having to lay an ethernet cable. If it works fine. If not then it would be back to the drawing board.

Brian

Re: Can I use BOTH Master and Extension Socket in my Flat

fred5 — Wed, 15 Aug 2018 16:02:10 GMT

I have plusnet fibre unlimited, does it warrant to buy a new router/modem in terms of speed and/or overall stability of wifi?

Fred

Re: Can I use BOTH Master and Extension Socket in my Flat

Townman — Wed, 15 Aug 2018 16:44:50 GMT

Note Archer A3 should have read D2

I understand if people use them if there is no other way. But you will never ever get a faster speed and reliability through powerline than through a proper dedicated ethernet cable

That all depends - if the ethernet ports are not Gigabit, then that is not always going to be true, for Ethernet then tops out at 100mbps. IIRC the ethernet ports on the Plusnet Hub One are only 100mbps, therefore decent Ethernet over power ought not to be an issue. There neds to be insight into why people return products - which part of the use is defective - the product or people's knowledge / understanding? Yes some of the cheap ones are rubbish, but you get what you pay for. I have used Devolo devices (which are not cheap £100+) where running Ethernet has been totally impractical, like for example to an outbuilding (barn). That site had two broadband services, one in to the main building, the other into the outbuilding - the Devolo devices enabled one building to use the other building's internet connection in the event of one failing. Never an issue.

It sounds as though this boils down to "Due to the nature of the property's construction Wifi does not have the reach / penetration to cover other rooms". Are you certain that is true, rather than just that (in that environment) the Plusnet router's wifi is just not adequate? Given that you work in IT retail, do you have access to other devices you might try? Look for "Range Max" type products.

You have not said what type / quality of cable connects the master socket to the extension socket, nor if you need to use that socket for a telephone, rather than using a DECT system connected at the master socket?

If this is modern twisted pair phone cable, then there ought to be no significant degradation if you please the modem there, so long as the "extension" is wired to the AB connections on the faceplate. Which NTE5 and face plate have you got?

If it is cat5 grade cable and you know what you are doing, you could repurpose that cable to be an Ethernet connection. Would need enough slack at the master socket end to pull it out to a new connection box and two ethernet port plates.

Wifi bridging is a viable option, but personally I would opt for Ethernet over Power first.

Re: Can I use BOTH Master and Extension Socket in my Flat

Browni — Wed, 15 Aug 2018 16:51:33 GMT

@Townman, the Ethernet ports on the Hub One are gigabit.

Re: Can I use BOTH Master and Extension Socket in my Flat

fred5 — Wed, 15 Aug 2018 17:10:49 GMT

I wouldn´t need Gigabit ethernet when not even reaching 40Mbps do I.

Re: Can I use BOTH Master and Extension Socket in my Flat

Mustrum — Wed, 15 Aug 2018 17:15:05 GMT

It depends on what you have connected to your router, and what you use the LAN side for. I found Gigabit a useful addition with a NAS connected to it.