topic Re: MS Office 365 - Verify Domain for Email Setup in Everything else

MS Office 365 - Verify Domain for Email Setup

C6REW — Sun, 17 Jan 2016 07:29:52 GMT

Good morning all,
Looking for a little help. Need to let you know I have very little knowledge about these things so have been searching the web to learn how to get this far.
I am currently using Microsoft Exchange on an Office 365 small business account.
I want to add all of my email addresses to the same exchange account. This means I need to add my web site to the MS account.
Via the MS website I have started the process and have been told to go into my f9/plusnet account and add an 'Additional DNS record' so that MS can confirm we own the web site.
As some of you will be aware the choice that MS give us is either a 'TXT record' or an 'MX record'. The only compatible one for plusnet is an 'MX record'.
The information given by MS is as follows:
Priority: 32767
Host name: @
Points to address or value: msxxxxxxxx.msv1.invalid
TTL: 3600
In my plusnet account I have added the following information in a new 'Additional DNS record'
Left field: Left blank
Type: mx
Pri: 32767
Right field: msxxxxxxxx.msv1.invalid.
NOTE. I have added an additional full stop at the end as not only does plusnet suggest this, but a number of folks have said the same.
But I also found some saying that it is fairly straightforward to add a 'cname' record even though MS don't give you the information.
So, to be sure I have added the following as another 'Additional DNS record'
Left field: msxxxxxxxx
Type: cname
Pri: Left blank
Right field: ps.microsoftonline.com
The problem is, whilst MS says that it will take up to a couple of hours, others state it can take up to 72 hours. If this is the case, I want to make sure I have done this correctly.
Can anyone advise if I have done this correctly?
Should I keep the cname type in there or will it do any harm?
I have also seen some folks saying you need to change the 'Email Settings' from 'POP3 to 'Other' which states, 'I wish to specify DNS records for mail to this domain. But yet again others have told me that I don't need to do this.
I tried phoning plusnet help desk when I was trying to make the change yesterday and was told that they don't support this any more. Real shame as I have found the support to be the best I have ever experienced in the computer software world.
Any advice welcome.
Thanks for you help.
Regards
Chris

Re: MS Office 365 - Verify Domain for Email Setup

spraxyt — Sun, 17 Jan 2016 13:05:24 GMT

Your MX record needs your domain name followed by a full stop in the left field. That's what the @ represents in the guidance, but the abbreviation isn't accepted. I suggest removing the CNAME entry, it just looks like potential big trouble to me.

Re: MS Office 365 - Verify Domain for Email Setup

C6REW — Sun, 17 Jan 2016 14:23:29 GMT

Hi spraxyt,
Many thanks for the information. I did wonder but no one else seems to have mentioned it. The only thing the support guy from plusnet said after consulting with his colleague was to put nothing in the left field!
Have now done so and assume I don't need www. at the front?
Best regards

Chris

Re: MS Office 365 - Verify Domain for Email Setup

spraxyt — Mon, 18 Jan 2016 17:47:59 GMT

Quote from: C6REW
Have now done so and assume I don't need www. at the front?

That's correct. It's effectively the part after the @ in your email address (with a dot on the end).
David

Re: MS Office 365 - Verify Domain for Email Setup

C6REW — Mon, 18 Jan 2016 21:29:04 GMT

Hi David,
Thanks for coming back to me.
Still nothing, but hoping it comes through in the next day or so.
Best regards

Chris

Re: MS Office 365 - Verify Domain for Email Setup

spraxyt — Mon, 18 Jan 2016 23:37:28 GMT

I think the DNS zone files for username-based domains are updated several times a day, but for purchased domains it's only once (perhaps twice) a day. The change is usually around midnight.
You can check for it happening by running


C:\>nslookup -type=mx mydomain.co.uk

at a Windows command prompt.
David

Re: MS Office 365 - Verify Domain for Email Setup

C6REW — Tue, 19 Jan 2016 07:05:53 GMT

Hi David,
Many thanks for the additional information.
I ran the command prompt and what came back, didn't mean much to me. As I am not sure how personal that information is, I have pm'd you which I hope is OK?
It is very kind of you to spend the time helping out.
Best regards

Chris

Re: MS Office 365 - Verify Domain for Email Setup

jelv — Tue, 19 Jan 2016 08:05:28 GMT

It should look like this:

C:\Users\John>nslookup -type=mx mydomain.co.uk
Server:  cdns01.plus.net
Address:  212.159.6.9
Non-authoritative answer:
mydomain.co.uk     MX preference = 10, mail exchanger = mx.avasin.plus.net
mydomain.co.uk     nameserver = ns2.plusnet.co.uk
mydomain.co.uk     nameserver = ns1.plusnet.co.uk
mydomain.co.uk     nameserver = ns1.force9.net
mydomain.co.uk     nameserver = ns2.force9.net

Re: MS Office 365 - Verify Domain for Email Setup

C6REW — Tue, 19 Jan 2016 08:24:53 GMT

Quote from: spoon

It should look like this:

C:\Users\John>nslookup -type=mx mydomain.co.uk
Server:  cdns01.plus.net
Address:  212.159.6.9
Non-authoritative answer:
mydomain.co.uk     MX preference = 10, mail exchanger = mx.avasin.plus.net
mydomain.co.uk     nameserver = ns2.plusnet.co.uk
mydomain.co.uk     nameserver = ns1.plusnet.co.uk
mydomain.co.uk     nameserver = ns1.force9.net
mydomain.co.uk     nameserver = ns2.force9.net

Hi and thanks for confirming.
The only thing different on my response is:
Server: UnKnown
Regards

Chris

Re: MS Office 365 - Verify Domain for Email Setup

spraxyt — Tue, 19 Jan 2016 14:31:19 GMT

Chris,
The response you get shows Server: Unknown because your router is providing your DNS service and it doesn't have a hostname. This is not a problem. The response records from the authoritative name server are identical.
If the additional MX record had been accepted, another line should have appeared (either above or below the current one) with the added details. Setting preference=32767 for that is correct - lower numbers come first so that additional one is last resort (only MS Office 365 was meant to look for it).
The additional record in your PM looks OK to me so it isn't obvious why it isn't being accepted (my understanding is that we *can* do this, though I've not tried it myself). I think a visit from a Plusnet guru is needed. Leave it with me.
David

Re: MS Office 365 - Verify Domain for Email Setup

C6REW — Tue, 19 Jan 2016 16:41:01 GMT

Hi David,
Thanks again for your response.
I did speak with MS this morning and he couldn't understand why it didn't work either. He was also confused to the purpose of the full stop at the end in the 'Right Field'. So he created a second instance without it and one lower number in the Priority field.
So far no joy.
Look forward to hearing from the plusnet guru.
Best regards

Chris

Re: MS Office 365 - Verify Domain for Email Setup

C6REW — Wed, 20 Jan 2016 05:31:06 GMT

Morning David,
Still not working after the possible midnight plusnet update.
Regards
Chris

Re: MS Office 365 - Verify Domain for Email Setup

bobpullen — Wed, 20 Jan 2016 12:22:06 GMT

Quote from: C6REW
I did speak with MS this morning and he couldn't understand why it didn't work either. He was also confused to the purpose of the full stop at the end in the 'Right Field'.

That 'qualifying' full stop, prevents your domain from being appended to the end of the hostname. What MS have done by omitting the dot is effectively this:

yourdomain.tld.  	MX 	32766  	ms16534807.msv1.invalid.yourdomain.tld.

Which needless to say won't work.

Quote from: C6REW
So he created a second instance without it and one lower number in the Priority field.

I've now removed that instance.

Quote from: spraxyt
Your MX record needs your domain name followed by a full stop in the left field.

You should be able to leave the left field blank (although it shouldn't really break anything if you don't). I've recreated a single additional record against your domain as follows:

                                              MX 	32767  	ms16534807.msv1.invalid.

Which should work.
As you can't drop the TTL though, it's going to be another case of waiting overnight I'm afraid.
There's also a possibility that the stream of changes have had the undesired result of messing something up, which is stopping your DNS zone from reloading. I'll see if I can get somebody to check that too.
Edit: Thinking about it, the MX records might not be getting updated because you still have the option selected to collect email using POP3. It's been a while since I looked into it, but I /think/ you need to select the attached option instead. Problem with this approach is that the overnight reload will break email for your domain as there'll no longer be a valid destination for it to be sent to. If you know what MX records MS are going to want you to use when things are all up and running then it's probably a good idea to add them now to minimise down time.

Re: MS Office 365 - Verify Domain for Email Setup

C6REW — Thu, 21 Jan 2016 00:12:50 GMT

Hi Bob,
Thanks for your input.
Been a long day and only just got home. So will let my brain rest before I re-read your notes in the morning.
Best regards
Chris

Re: MS Office 365 - Verify Domain for Email Setup

C6REW — Thu, 21 Jan 2016 07:45:10 GMT

Morning Bob,
Awake and refreshed.
Many thanks once again for your help and the change. I believe, I did try what you have done on one occasion and left it overnight, but with no luck. Having said that I have tried so many things it is all a bit of a blur now!
I think I stated above, this is all about MS recognising that I own the domain so I can create my email addresses within MS Exchange. I understand that once it has been recognised by MS I can delete the DNS setting and put my system back to normal if I wish.
Two things come to mind.
1. If I made the changes to 'I wish to specify DNS records for mail to this domain', how long would my emails be down for and will I still be able to retrieve all the ones that had not arrived on my computer if I put everything back to 'normal'? 24hrs?
2. Can we confirm when the overnight 'change' actually takes place. Is it 0000 UK time?

Quote from: Bob

...... If you know what MX records MS are going to want you to use when things are all up and running then it's probably a good idea to add them now to minimise down time.

I guess this is the solution to making sure my emails still arrive, but unfortunately I don't understand what it means.
Am I right in saying that once MS has recognised my domain ownership and can create the email addresses within my MS Exchange account, I won't miss any of them that arrived from a designated point in the past and obviously that point forward?
The key thing for me is not to loose any emails. No problem in them going missing for a short time outside of work hours.
Best regards

Chris

Re: MS Office 365 - Verify Domain for Email Setup

jelv — Thu, 21 Jan 2016 07:58:08 GMT

The problem is that while there are no MX records the mail servers of people trying to send you mail will probably decide it is undeliverable and return it to the sender as such. That's different to when a mail server is configured correctly but is down when they should keep retrying for a period. Also as DNS records take time to propagate you can't be sure how long the servers will see the miss-configuration.

Re: MS Office 365 - Verify Domain for Email Setup

C6REW — Thu, 21 Jan 2016 08:20:30 GMT

Quote from: spoon
The problem is that while there are no MX records the mail servers of people trying to send you mail will probably decide it is undeliverable and return it to the sender as such. That's different to when a mail server is configured correctly but is down when they should keep retrying for a period. Also as DNS records take time to propagate you can't be sure how long the servers will see the miss-configuration.

Thanks for that.
This is something of a dilemma. Customers will, I am sure, re-send emails, but it still makes me feel vulnerable.
Regards

Chris

Re: MS Office 365 - Verify Domain for Email Setup

C6REW — Thu, 21 Jan 2016 17:28:05 GMT

Hi Bob,
Don't know if you saw my query regarding you mention of MX records for MS. I am not sure what you mean, but was hoping I could make those changes before changing the email settings to DNS records I could give it a go perhaps this evening.
Best regards
Chris

Re: MS Office 365 - Verify Domain for Email Setup

bobpullen — Fri, 22 Jan 2016 10:52:31 GMT

Quote from: C6REW
1. If I made the changes to 'I wish to specify DNS records for mail to this domain', how long would my emails be down for and will I still be able to retrieve all the ones that had not arrived on my computer if I put everything back to 'normal'? 24hrs?

The change would propagate overnight. and you'd need to wait overnight again to change it back. Once changed mail would be pointed at the MX record specified, so at present it would point to an invalid verification address. Email sent to your address is likely to get bounced/deferred during this time i.e. some mail might keep on trying for a few days (in which case it will get delivered when the proper MX records are in place or you change things back) but a considerable amount could bounce.

Quote from: C6REW
2. Can we confirm when the overnight 'change' actually takes place. Is it 0000 UK time?

I'm not 100% sure TBH. Fairly certain it's early hours though.

Quote from: C6REW
Quote from: Bob

...... If you know what MX records MS are going to want you to use when things are all up and running then it's probably a good idea to add them now to minimise down time.

I guess this is the solution to making sure my emails still arrive, but unfortunately I don't understand what it means.

Once verification has been completed, Microsoft will expect you to add further MX records to point you rmail at their Exchange instance. If you knew these ahead of time, you could add them at the same time as the verification record. That would mean mail would start flowing through to Exchange as soon as Microsoft do whatever they need to at their side so it's accepted.

Quote from: C6REW
Am I right in saying that once MS has recognised my domain ownership and can create the email addresses within my MS Exchange account, I won't miss any of them that arrived from a designated point in the past and obviously that point forward?

At this point you'd need to add further MX records as explained above and that too will take 24 hours to propagate (thus me suggesting you add them at the same time as the verification record if possible).

Quote from: C6REW
The key thing for me is not to loose any emails. No problem in them going missing for a short time outside of work hours.

If you can set up all necessary MX records and have Microsoft configure the address their side before switching to the 'manually manage email records' option then that's your best bet. Email would go to the existing destination until the overnight DNS refresh. There would then be a period of propagation where some mail goes to the MS mailbox and some still trickles through to your Plusnet mailbox. After a further 24 hours or so, all mail would go to the Exchange instance. If there's any separation/delay in carrying out any of the aforementioned steps then you're almost certainly going to lose some mail. Senders of genuine emails (rather than list/marketing emails etc.) would be notified there was a problem so might try again later, but any 'one time' messages sent by companies/websites etc. would go missing.
Hope that makes sense.

Re: MS Office 365 - Verify Domain for Email Setup

C6REW — Fri, 22 Jan 2016 12:07:51 GMT

Quote from: Bob

Quote from: C6REW
Quote from: Bob

...... If you know what MX records MS are going to want you to use when things are all up and running then it's probably a good idea to add them now to minimise down time.

I guess this is the solution to making sure my emails still arrive, but unfortunately I don't understand what it means.

Once verification has been completed, Microsoft will expect you to add further MX records to point you rmail at their Exchange instance. If you knew these ahead of time, you could add them at the same time as the verification record. That would mean mail would start flowing through to Exchange as soon as Microsoft do whatever they need to at their side so it's accepted.
Quote from: C6REW
The key thing for me is not to loose any emails. No problem in them going missing for a short time outside of work hours.

If you can set up all necessary MX records and have Microsoft configure the address their side before switching to the 'manually manage email records' option then that's your best bet. Email would go to the existing destination until the overnight DNS refresh. There would then be a period of propagation where some mail goes to the MS mailbox and some still trickles through to your Plusnet mailbox. After a further 24 hours or so, all mail would go to the Exchange instance. If there's any separation/delay in carrying out any of the aforementioned steps then you're almost certainly going to lose some mail. Senders of genuine emails (rather than list/marketing emails etc.) would be notified there was a problem so might try again later, but any 'one time' messages sent by companies/websites etc. would go missing.
Hope that makes sense.

Hi Bob,
Thanks very much for taking the time to come back to me.
I am struggling to understand what an 'MX record' is that I have to set up on my MS side.
The only thing I can think of which I will have to set up is the various email addresses. But the problem with that is I cannot do it until MS have confirmed we own our domain! Catch 22!
Best regards
Chris