topic Re: Can't send email using relay.plus.net in Email

Can't send email using relay.plus.net

Annie — Thu, 18 Jan 2024 15:48:18 GMT

I have been setting up a new Windows 11 PC and have a program called EaseUs ToDo Backup which sends me a notification when a backup task is complete. It was working until a few days ago and now I cannot get the notifications to send.

So then I decided to set up my Plusnet email account in the Mail app and the emails just sit in the outbox. I intend to bring my Thunderbird configuration over from my old PC but don't want to do this until I have this problem sorted out.

I read some posts on here and so I tried using Telnet in CMD prompt. However, nothing happens for a while and then I eventually get

"Connecting to relay.plus.net....Could not open connection to the host, on port 23: Connect failed."

I am able to receive emails in the Mail app. I wonder whether someone might be able to help me with this as it seems odd that this has just stopped working. I do not know enough about ports to fix this. I have the Plusnet Hub Two router.

Edit: The emails eventually sent from the Mail app but I still cannot send my notifications from EaseUs ToDo Backup and the same message appears in the CMD prompt.

Re: Can't send email using relay.plus.net

MisterW — Thu, 18 Jan 2024 15:58:54 GMT

"Connecting to relay.plus.net....Could not open connection to the host, on port 23: Connect failed."

@Annie relay.plus.net uses ports 587 & 25 Not 23 ( you should really use 587 )

To test using telnet you need to run 'telnet relay.plus.net 587'

Re: Can't send email using relay.plus.net

Annie — Thu, 18 Jan 2024 16:08:26 GMT

Thank you. It now comes back as...

220 avasout-ptp-001 smtp relay.plus.net
Connection to host lost.

I'm not technical so I don't really know where to go from here.

Re: Can't send email using relay.plus.net

Annie — Thu, 18 Jan 2024 16:27:43 GMT

I managed to go through the Telnet steps in the end and got

535 ...authentication rejected

It gives no further explanation than this.

Re: Can't send email using relay.plus.net

Baldrick1 — Thu, 18 Jan 2024 16:47:06 GMT

@Annie

Why spend time trying to get Windows mail to work if you plan to use Thunderbird?

Re: Can't send email using relay.plus.net

MisterW — Thu, 18 Jan 2024 16:51:57 GMT

That would imply that the username and/or password used for authentication is not correct.

There are two combinations of username/password that can be used

1) The main Plusnet account name and the password used to login to the member centre

2) accountname+mailboxname and the mailbox password

Re: Can't send email using relay.plus.net

Annie — Thu, 18 Jan 2024 16:52:43 GMT

@Baldrick1 I have not installed Thunderbird yet. My installation is huge as I have a large database of emails and I have not yet put my data onto my new PC.

I am trying to get the notifications to send from my backup program but thought I'd try the email settings in the Mail app to see if I encountered problems there which I seem to be having. The emails sit in the Outbox for some time before eventually sending.

I cannot understand what has happened as I have barely used the new machine and the notifications were being sent from EaseUs ToDo Backup perfectly well a few days ago. I am able to send OK on my old Windows 10 PC and from my phone using Aquamail.

Re: Can't send email using relay.plus.net

Annie — Thu, 18 Jan 2024 16:57:56 GMT

@MisterW

It's a secondary address with the + sign. I have checked and triple-checked the credentials and no joy. Incidentally, the credentials were working fine a few days ago.

I've had an email sitting in the Mail app Outbox now for 25 minutes and where it's trying to send it just says 'Still working on it...' but the previous test messages I did about an hour ago eventually sent so I presume this means the username and password are correct.

Ican send from my Windows 10 PC fine.

Re: Can't send email using relay.plus.net

Townman — Thu, 18 Jan 2024 17:20:09 GMT

Reset email password (generic advice...)

If you are not able to login to the email address using webmail, then it is likely that your email address has been identified as being compromised and has had its password changed. Where email address passwords have been changed to protect the integrity of the service, the Plusnet account password is left unchanged.

Which ISP are you with, Plusnet or one of the other / legacy vISPs?

Plusnet / Force9 / FreeOnline users can only change the password on the DEFAULT email address by changing the password on the user ACCOUNT through the user portal. You can change the password on a secondary mailbox using the Manage My Mail options in the user portal.

Brightview users (Madasafish / FreeNetName / GlobalNet / IC24 / ICScotland / Dialstart / Totalise) logging into webmail should use their full email address. Use the MAAF user portal to update the password on the default email address (change the account password) and use this MAAF guide to change the password on a secondary mailbox address. If you cannot recall the account password, you will need to contact support ... because the account password change process sends an email to the mailbox you cannot now access.

DO NOT USE THE SAME PASSWORD AGAIN for that would allow the continued exploitation of the account. The new password should be cryptic and not one used before.

Note that changing the account password will change the password used for logging on to the relevant user portal. If your email service is NOT a retained legacy service (one associated with a retired internet service account), then the password required by the router to connect to the internet will be changed too. If the router is a Hub Zero or a Hub One supplied by Plusnet it should update automatically. If not, you will need to log into the router, drop the connection, change the password yourself and reconnect.

On the assumption that the email address password has been compromised, I strongly recommend that wherever you have used that email address / password combination as access credentials to services such as Amazon, Netflix, eBay etc., that you also change the passwords on those service as well.

Re: Can't send email using relay.plus.net

Annie — Thu, 18 Jan 2024 17:37:56 GMT

@Townman

It is a Plusnet secondary email address with the plus sign in the middle.

I can send emails from my Windows 10 PC fine and also use Webmail on the Win 11 PC so I don't believe any password has been changed. I don't use the password anywhere else and it is a jumble of 12 characters.

I have also tried using the main Plusnet email account and also another secondary account and none of these work on the new PC either.

My backup program will send email notifications if I use my Gmail account and Gmail server details and I have also tried another email account for my own domain which also works.

What could possibly have changed on my PC to make this stop working? The logs in my backup program suggest I check the network and firewall have not blocked Tbservice.exe or to verify that I can send myself email. I believe Tbservice.exe is not blocked (I use a private network).

I have the AVG AntiVirus Free program on my PC and have temporarily disabled the protection and this doesn't resolve the issue either.

The Mail app is not sending an email out at all now.

Re: Can't send email using relay.plus.net

Townman — Thu, 18 Jan 2024 21:13:49 GMT

If you login to the mailbox using webmail, that will confirm that the password is what you think it is. Please confirm that you can send an email via webmail.

Something to rule out - is this a mailbox on a current LIVE Plusnet account or a retained free mailbox on a closed account? There has been a history of issues accessing the SMTP server by retained never paid for email accounts after changing the account’s password. Reading email is fine, but sending becomes blocked. The first step to fixing that issue is to consider if it applies here.

If you can login and send email via webmail, please redo the telnet test I’ve shared elsewhere (https://community.plus.net/t5/Email/No-email-this-morning-10-November/m-p/1831686#M36647). Be sure to use encryption as advised for the user name and password.

Was the authentication message unqualified (see the example error messages)?

Re: Can't send email using relay.plus.net

Annie — Fri, 19 Jan 2024 00:06:59 GMT

@Townman

There doesn't appear to be a specific reason for the error.

I am using a live email account. I have had a Plusnet internet connection for more than 20 years and I am able to log in and send email via Webmail. I appear to be having better success sending email from the Mail app on this computer now but I am still unable to send out email notifications via EaseUs ToDo Backup.

This is where I enter the email settings in the program. Note, I've removed my email address and username for privacy reasons only. They are usually filled in. I have tried using port 587 and ticked and unticked the SSL/TLS box using both port 25 and 587 and no configuration is working.

Re: Can't send email using relay.plus.net

Townman — Fri, 19 Jan 2024 08:55:27 GMT

Looking back at my own notes, that “unqualified” rejection is a simple wrong username and password combination condition. I have a vague recollection that some of the special characters when used in passwords can cause issues in some environments. Back when I worked in IT £/#/$ were not always handled consistently. I am grasping at straws here!

The username should be accountname or accountname+mailboxname not email address.

SMTP should be on port 587 with encryption STARTTLS (not SSL/TLS). Some applications might treat “use SSL/TLS” as generic “use encryption” and try all options (iPhones do that), whilst others will treat it literally applying only SSL/TLS.

Get this working without encryption (review your password’s special characters) first. Then tick the SSL/TLS option. If that then fails, switch to the (not recommended) deprecated port 465 with SSL/TLS.

First step is to get the diagnostic test to work without issue. When logging into webmail - are you typing in the password or are you using the browser’s “memory”? We’re clutching at straws here … are you 100% certain that the typed credentials are correct? I’ve done it myself - forgotten that the password has been changed and then forgotten it when I’ve needed to type it. If you are using the browser!s memory you can retrieve the password from it’s security store.

Re: Can't send email using relay.plus.net

Annie — Fri, 19 Jan 2024 11:00:25 GMT

@Townman

Thank you for your suggestions.

Nothing seems to be working. I created a new mailbox on my account a couple of days ago and changed the password today. According to Plusnet, I have to have some sort of symbol so I used a hyphen in the password. I can log in to Webmail, yes I'm typing the credentials in. When I sent a test message initially I got Authentication failed but I immediately sent it again and it went. Perhaps this was because the password had not long been changed although I had already logged into Webmail with the new password.

In EaseUs ToDo, nothing I try works - even using port 465.

Some background information. Around the New Year, my broadand went off for about 4 days because of a major outage at the exchange. It was supposed to be fixed after a couple of days but mine wasn't so Plusnet booked an engineer. However, the internet came back on the day before so we cancelled the engineer. Then earlier this week, there was an outage (I think this was affecting a lot of people all over the country) but the internet came back on again after about an hour and a half. I don't know whether any of this is relevant.

Finally, after I started getting this problem, I went into the router's settings a few days ago and switched to 'always use this IP address' to Yes. It didn't seem to make any difference but today I've tried to switch it back to 'No' and after several restarts, it still says Yes so I don't know why this is happening either or if it has any bearing on the problem.

Would there be any logs in the router that would help? I wouldn't know what to look for.

Re: Can't send email using relay.plus.net

Townman — Fri, 19 Jan 2024 11:55:30 GMT

I doubt that this is at a connection problem - if it were, the diagnostics would not work at all.

Can you humour me and try the IMAP diagnostic process below (originally written to test delete issues) please? If you can connect to to IMAP server but not the SMTP server, then there might be something else in the mix here. Are you using a VPN?

Do 01 to 04 below, then 07 & 08. DON NOT do 05 & 06 they DELETE mail items.

If this works but the SMTP test does not, then for some reason your network connection is not being allowed to access the SMTP server. If that comes to pass, I'll see if a staffer can assist.

Test IMAP access

Testing IMAP connectivity through a command line interface might deliver a more precise error messages than provided by an email client. The following describes how to do this using TELNET which might be a productive approach to diagnosing mailbox issues and addressing mail deletion performance issues. See...

TELNET - this might need installing as an additional option, for Windows see enabling TELNET.
IMAP Protocol Crib Sheet (donsutherland.org)
IMAP 101: Manual IMAP Sessions - IMAP commands - Atmail email

Here are the steps I took to play with one of my mailboxes and successfully delete mail items from the sent folder. My input is in the boxes, responses below them.

Run up a CMD PROMPT or Windows Terminal session.

telnet imap.plus.net 143

* OK [CAPABILITY IMAP4 IMAP4REV1] perdition ready on mail.plus.net 00029cec

01 login email_name account_password

01 OK LOGIN Ok.

02 list "" *

* LIST (\HasNoChildren) "." "INBOX.Test Folder 1"
* LIST (\HasNoChildren) "." "INBOX.Trash"
* LIST (\HasNoChildren) "." "INBOX.Spam"
* LIST (\HasNoChildren) "." "INBOX.Sent"
* LIST (\HasNoChildren) "." "INBOX.Drafts"
* LIST (\Marked \HasChildren) "." "INBOX"
02 OK LIST completed

03 select "INBOX.Sent"

* FLAGS (\Draft \Answered \Flagged \Deleted \Seen \Recent)
* OK [PERMANENTFLAGS (\* \Draft \Answered \Flagged \Deleted \Seen)] Limited
* 1 EXISTS
* 0 RECENT
* OK [UIDVALIDITY 653548812] Ok
* OK [MYRIGHTS "acdilrsw"] ACL
03 OK [READ-WRITE] Ok

04 STATUS INBOX.Sent (MESSAGES)

* STATUS "INBOX.Sent" (MESSAGES 1)
04 OK STATUS Completed.

05 store 1 +FLAGS (\Deleted)

* 1 FETCH (FLAGS (\Seen \Deleted))
05 OK STORE completed.

06 expunge

* 1 EXPUNGE
* 0 EXISTS
* 0 RECENT
06 OK EXPUNGE completed

07 close

07 OK mailbox closed.

08 logout

* BYE Courier-IMAP server shutting down
08 OK LOGOUT completed

Connection to host lost.
PS C:\Users\me>

Notes:

I found it very helpful to have a WEBMAIL session open on the mailbox whilst doing this
The command interface is totally unforgiving - back space looks like it might work if you type a mistake, but your error will be recorded already, you'll need to type the command again
Commands to IMAP must be prefixed by something - anything - the use of a number sequence above has no significance beyond being helpful to refer to steps as per the below...
Detailed guidance...
- 01 The email_name should be
  - the plusnet account name if it is the default mailbox
  - plusnet_account_name+mailbox_name if it is a secondary mailbox
- 03 Check that your rights to the Sent folder matches those above marked in red - this could be the cause of your issue
- 04 Tells you how many messages are in the folder
- 05 Marks the mail item to be deleted - after doing this, if you refresh the WEBMAIL session the message(s) deleted will appear greyed out
- 06 Disposes of the mail item - after doing this, if you refresh the WEBMAIL session, the messages should have been removed - and will not be in the deleted items folder
If the above 01-06 results in the successful removal of a mail item from the sent folder, repeat steps 04 to 06 to delete blocks of messages using...

05 store 1:n +FLAGS (\Deleted)
where n is a number not greater than the message count reported in 04.

Re: Can't send email using relay.plus.net

Annie — Fri, 19 Jan 2024 12:39:00 GMT

@Townman

This is what came up. When I tried 04 for the second time it didn't seem to want play ball but when I typed it in for the third time, it worked.

I note that after I logged off I had a different path to the one in your notes. I presume this is OK.

Re: Can't send email using relay.plus.net

Annie — Fri, 19 Jan 2024 14:10:57 GMT

Forgot to say, I'm not using a VPN. What I don't understand is why everything should work correctly on other devices.

Re: Can't send email using relay.plus.net

Townman — Fri, 19 Jan 2024 15:28:53 GMT

On other devices ... on your network?

Can you run successfully the SMTP diagnostic on those other devices?

If you can, then the issue is related to the device itself, not the email service or the network. We are now "grasping at straws" - is there any known network configuration difference between the problem machine and the non-problem machines?

Can you please ping relay.plus.net on the problem machine and one of the not a problem machines. Note the IP addresses, are they the same? Note that you will NOT get replies to the pings - Plusnet services do not waste time and resources responding to probes.

To be clear, is it the case that NO email client on that device can connect to the outbound server?

What OS is that running?

If Windows - consider running a system file integrity scan. You need to run the DOS prompt / terminal in admin mode.

C:> sfc /scannow

It might take a while, especially if it finds things to fix.

Re: Can't send email using relay.plus.net

Townman — Fri, 19 Jan 2024 15:38:13 GMT

@Annie wrote:

@Townman

It is a Plusnet secondary email address with the plus sign in the middle.

I can send emails from my Windows 10 PC fine and also use Webmail on the Win 11 PC so I don't believe any password has been changed. I don't use the password anywhere else and it is a jumble of 12 characters.

I have also tried using the main Plusnet email account and also another secondary account and none of these work on the new PC either.

The Mail app is not sending an email out at all now.

Reviewing what you have shared...

Is the "problem" PC the Win11 PC?

Is the "Mail App" that excuse for a mail app which ships with Win11 and calls itself "Outlook"?

If the latter is "Yes" then that is not a great benchmark for testing anything. In my experience I have found it less than reliable. That product has also undergone a major redevelopment and the early release would only work properly with @outlook.com or @hotmail.com mailboxes.

Personally I would use a known benchmark for diagnostics such as Thunderbird if you do not plan to use Outlook 386 (full product).

That said, that ought not to impact the operation of the SMTP diagnostic.

Re: Can't send email using relay.plus.net

Townman — Fri, 19 Jan 2024 16:01:22 GMT

Annie,

Applying yet more scrutiny to the evidence you have supplied

are you Annie B / acquainted with Harvey
are you using a static IP address?

If the answer to (1) is "Yes" I will move this to PMs.