topic Re: All emails to Gmail bouncing from Freenetname in Email

All emails to Gmail bouncing from Freenetname

pnforumMW — Thu, 15 Jun 2023 06:26:10 GMT

Apologies for another one, but I've chased around relevant threads with no luck.

I bought my domain name ".me.uk" many years ago from Freenetname. I'm sure you're aware that it has travelled through Freenetname => Madasafish => Plusnet.

My "base" email inbox is <username>@freenetname.co.uk, to which all email addressed to <anything>@<mydomainname>.me.uk is routed.

Delivery to gmail.com has been intermittent for several months. The problem was previously limited to forwarded or CC: emails, sent from my email client (Outlook 2010).

Now, every email to gmail.com is bounced (including those sent via Plusnet webmail https://webmail.plus.net/). I understand this is probably due to Google tightening up their spam filters and/or not making their internal email processing rules visible.

The current bounce message is at the bottom of this post.

I have looked at various recent suggestions involving MXtoolbox but none seem to be applicable.

I've tried looking for the "Configure button" at https://www.plus.net/my.html?action=domainv2:, but no luck (see attachment).

MX “Solve Email Delivery Problems” gives the results attached.

An assistance gratefully received, as what started as an mild inconvenience is rapidly deteriorating. I have a technical background but not with email delivery systems!

Regards

=================

Reporting-MTA: dns; avasout-ptp-004 [84.93.230.250]
Received-From-MTA: dns; webmail.plus.net [84.93.228.144]
Arrival-Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2023 07:06:27 +0100

Final-recipient: rfc822; REDACTED@gmail.com
Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 550-5.7.26 This mail is unauthenticated, which poses a security risk to the

Last-attempt-Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2023 07:06:27 +0100

Received: from webmail.plus.net ([84.93.228.144])
by smtp with ESMTPA
id 9g7lqgS9OVYiB9g7mqhpc1; Thu, 15 Jun 2023 07:06:27 +0100
X-Clacks-Overhead: "GNU Terry Pratchett"
X-CM-Score: 0.00
X-CNFS-Analysis: v=2.4 cv=JJMoDuGb c=1 sm=1 tr=0 ts=648aaa63
a=Fy01bzDlhC/AJhvt6vj9bg==:117 a=Im6IV7GnejQA:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10
a=of4jigFt-DYA:10 a=1FzqG5ILVBdwvA7Y_sMA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10
X-AUTH: REDACTED@freenetname.co.uk:2500
Received: from 4.11.115.87.dyn.plus.net ([87.115.11.4])
by webmail.plus.net
with HTTP (HTTP/1.1 POST); Thu, 15 Jun 2023 07:06:25 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII;
format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2023 07:06:25 +0100
From: martin <plusnet@martinwilkinson.me.uk>
To: REDACTED@gmail.com
Subject: Test
Message-ID: <06a987d4f95b024e29cf5c022fe51191@martinwilkinson.me.uk>
X-Sender: plusnet@martinwilkinson.me.uk
User-Agent: Webmail
X-Originating-IP: [87.115.11.4]
X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4xfP6tiMBFdL+IjCucR9NZRbvxVthQrzGSP3Z1NBJbePazMvAjkz1KwKe5dPzSVo0FfK7G3xHiavtBmdt/jsg0/48/wkCl1+ZM4Ksj4mS74Z0ZxVfVfy1c
9O6btHRzglUvf8gml30CFhcfdQH/4ImvFQeuBEE/KO/psRagGVNqB93IEds2oU+gIxTRp+7G9Q4SBkVvHHXLBPqDkonmto3ThwE=

Re: All emails to Gmail bouncing from Freenetname

MisterW — Thu, 15 Jun 2023 07:35:28 GMT

@pnforumMW the basic problem is that google have insisted that any mail sent to free (but not paid!) gmail addresses MUST be authenticated by either SPF and/or DKIM. Neither of these standards are mandatory but google have unilaterally decreed from Nov 22 that they are likely to reject email which does not meet these standards. https://support.google.com/a/answer/33786?hl=en

As you've probably seen when searching the forums it is possible to add an SPF record to some domains hosted by Plusnet, however this is not possible for domains hosted by the vISPs e.g freenetname.

I'm afraid that to avoid mail from your domain being rejected by gmail , you will need to transfer the mail hosting to a service that provides SPF & DKIM.

Re: All emails to Gmail bouncing from Freenetname

Townman — Thu, 15 Jun 2023 13:17:45 GMT

@pnforumMW wrote:

My "base" email inbox is <username>@freenetname.co.uk, to which all email addressed to <anything>@<mydomainname>.me.uk is routed.

For clarity, is anything@yourdomain.me.uk HOSTED elsewhere with forwarding to username@freenetname.co.uk AND then you are trying to send as anything@yourdomain.me.uk using Plusnet's SMTP server?

If the answers are "Yes and Yes" they try the domain hosted elsewhere option below...

Mitigating email delivery failures

Many users are reporting challenging issues in sending emails to some of the big email players. Some of those providers (notably Gmail, but only in respect of their free email accounts) have mandated the SPF & DKIM non-mandatory RFCs on other email providers, such as Plusnet. This can bring about significant difficulty when attempting to send emails using the various Plusnet and vISP legacy email services.

If a user is sending email using a from address of you@youraccount.plus.com then DKIM signing will be applied to the email automatically (and pass Gmail's imposed restrictions) if the SMTP server is configured to require authentication. Somewhat unhelpfully, Plusnet's email setup guide suggests that such authentication is NOT required if connecting over a Plusnet connection. Whilst technically true, operational complications can occur and it is much tidier to just enable authentication with the "use the same account settings as the incoming server" option.

If you send from your own domain name, then DKIM signing is not available and you will need to configure SPF instead. How to do this depends on where your domain is hosted - by Plusnet or by third party.

For Plusnet hosted domains, SPF configuration is facilitated by the addition of a TXT record in the domain's DNS settings. Plusnet's DNS configuration tool for hosted domains does not permit the creation of TXT records. However, there is an unsupported "facilitation" which will create an SPF record for a hosted domain.

On the basis that your account ALREADY has a hosted domain, go to Manage Account -> Manage Your Domains -> Configure domain name ... and create an "Additional DNS records (Advanced)" as follows...

For the avoidance of doubt: leave the left side blank, exactly as shown.

To configure SPF on a domain name hosted elsewhere, you must use your domain name provider's DNS configuration tools to set up the following SPF record:

For Plusnet users:
v=spf1 a mx include:_spf-internal.plus.net include:_spf-internal2.plus.net ~all

For MAAF users:
"v=spf1 include:_spf-internal.madasafish.com include:_spf-internal2.madasafish.com include:_spf-external.madasafish.com ~all

If your email service is provided by one of the legacy vISP brands acquired over the years by Plusnet, similar options are not available to you.

... otherwise the advice offered by @MisterW applies.

The suggestion of the SPF record for domains hosted elsewhere where, for MAAF user's is new and untried - please do feedback if it is applicable to you and it works (or not!).

Re: All emails to Gmail bouncing from Freenetname

pnforumMW — Thu, 15 Jun 2023 13:37:23 GMT

Thanks very much for your prompt and helpful response.
I suspected this might be the case, but it's nice to get some clarity so that I know what to do, rather than spiralling down into trying ever more obscure hacks.

I guess it would be outside your remit to suggest any alternative providers? Happy to pay a fee, but searching just comes up with myriad companies offering the world for highly variable fees. I just want my email to be fixed; not interested in anything else.

Regards

Martin

Re: All emails to Gmail bouncing from Freenetname

pnforumMW — Thu, 15 Jun 2023 13:43:52 GMT

Not as far as I am aware.

"Manage Account" does not have a "Manage Your Domains" option:

<If your email service is provided by one of the legacy vISP brands acquired over the years by Plusnet, similar options are not available to you.>

This is the case, so I don't believe these options are available.

Thanks for your response though!

Re: All emails to Gmail bouncing from Freenetname

MisterW — Thu, 15 Jun 2023 14:13:53 GMT

Depends what you need.

If you need lots of mailboxes and aliases, but not a huge amount of storage then look at https://www.mythic-beasts.com/hosting. They offer unlimited mailboxes and aliases but with a 2Gb storage limit on the basic £20/yr package.

For limited mailboxes and slightly more storage look at the Business email account from https://www.ecohosting.co.uk/email.html at £25/yr

For both of those you're looking at another £7/yr domain registration fees

I use both of the above at the moment, two domains hosted by Mythic and a 3rd by Ecohosting, although I'm considering moving the 3rd to Mythic as well. Support by both is extremely good ( ticket based ). If you ever need to host more than one domain then Mythic is best since they will host unlimited domains on one account.

If you are currently using IMAP to access your email , then you need to consider transferring the contents of existing mailboxes to the new supplier. If using POP and storing email locally, then that's not an issue.

Shout up if you have any questions

Re: All emails to Gmail bouncing from Freenetname

pnforumMW — Thu, 15 Jun 2023 14:28:11 GMT

Thanks so much for the pointers.

My needs are very basic - I only have one domain (martinwilkinson.me.uk) and don't need additional mailboxes/domains.

I don't need large storage - I use Outlook 2010 desktop client with POP/SMTP so all my email archives are on my desktop. So as you say, no issues with transferring IMAP folders between providers.

And that's all!

Re: All emails to Gmail bouncing from Freenetname

MisterW — Thu, 15 Jun 2023 14:44:02 GMT

If you only ever need a single mailbox, then there are probably cheaper alternatives than I suggested, although the Ecohosting personal at £15 would work for you. I've always used multiple mailboxes and aliases with my domains so the many providers that charge on a per user/mailbox are way too expensive for me.

Re: All emails to Gmail bouncing from Freenetname

Townman — Thu, 15 Jun 2023 14:51:01 GMT

"... I only have one domain (mw.me.uk) and ..."

That is most interesting.

Your domain is hosted by MAAF - did not know that was possible.

Your domain therefore will not appear in your account detail on the Plusnet portal ... but is there anything on your legacy MAAF account / portal? See here - Broadband Internet, Cheap line rental, free calls, and competitive international rates from Madasafish - The Friendly ISP

That said TTBOMK there is no means of generating a SPF record for a hosted domain with MAAF ... but I have no means of looking and verifying.

For clarification, your email is not forwarded to the MAAF both domain names are treated as being the same, that is @mw.me.uk is delivered to mw@madasafish.com - whilst this might seem like semantics, it is substantially different to the former forwarding to the latter.

An alternative host for mw.me.uk might be a smart move. Nice decko by the way!

@MatthewWheeler FYI.

Re: All emails to Gmail bouncing from Freenetname

pnforumMW — Thu, 15 Jun 2023 15:24:49 GMT

Thanks, I'll make some enquiries about re-hosting email and moving the domain name to a different provider. I'll just detail the situation as I know it and let them advise whether they can help.

Unfortunately I can no longer log on to the MAAF portal - I think after 8 years I probably thought the password could be deleted!

Thanks for the clarification regarding mail delivery/forwarding. I can sense they are different and apologise for sloppy use of the term "forwarding" 😉

Just figured out you meant "Gecko"!!

Re: All emails to Gmail bouncing from Freenetname

Townman — Thu, 15 Jun 2023 15:30:23 GMT

Fat fingers!

You might try a password reset on the MAAF portal.

Re: All emails to Gmail bouncing from Freenetname

pnforumMW — Thu, 15 Jun 2023 15:36:53 GMT

I've got onto the MAAF portal now - just realised I changed to a more secure password about 6 months ago!

However, I can't actually see anything useful on there :

At least I can get to it if a new provider asks me to poke around in it.

Thanks again.

Re: All emails to Gmail bouncing from Freenetname

Townman — Thu, 15 Jun 2023 17:32:22 GMT

Is there any configuration options "behind" the Justmail link?

Is that still being charged for?

Re: All emails to Gmail bouncing from Freenetname

pnforumMW — Thu, 15 Jun 2023 18:08:39 GMT

Clicking the the "Justmail" link gives:

They stopped charging me in 2017 for some reason - I didn't argue!

Re: All emails to Gmail bouncing from Freenetname

Gandalf — Thu, 15 Jun 2023 18:21:22 GMT

The Madasafish portal has certainly seen better days. It’s not very often I see it from a customer’s point of view as I also don’t have a Madasafish account.

I can confirm we wouldn’t have charged since September 2018 when the ‘new billing’ system rolled, and there’s no functionality to configure DNS records either.

If we did stop charging for this account in 2017, it was probably an isolated issue.

Re: All emails to Gmail bouncing from Freenetname

pnforumMW — Thu, 15 Jun 2023 20:59:01 GMT

The last annual charge was November 2017, so that aligns with charging ceasing September 2018 🙂

Re: All emails to Gmail bouncing from Freenetname

Gandalf — Thu, 15 Jun 2023 21:22:57 GMT

Ohhhhh. Yeah. I forgot Madasafish accounts were paid annually rather than monthly.

Re: All emails to Gmail bouncing from Freenetname

GKofGTM — Wed, 21 Jun 2023 20:11:13 GMT

Hi, thanks for these concise instructions (re: Townman's reply at the beginning of the thread, unsure how to quote posts here). I believe I am following them all but I'm still getting the gmail bounce problem with mutliple gmail addresses.

In my circumstance, I am trying to send from 'myname'@'account'.plus.com, from the Thunderbird client. In the outgoing SMTP settings I have authentication with password enabled, using relay.plus.net, Port 587 and STARTTLS conenction security picked.

Can you see anything else that I would need to configure in order to mitgate the problem?

My bounce emails I'm recieving are as such:

      This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification.      

Delivery to the following recipients failed permanently:

   * [GMAIL ACCT]

Reason: A message that you sent to the following recipient could not be delivered due to a permanent error. ** The remote server ?? responded with: ** [GMAIL ACCT] ??:?? This message was created automatically by mail delivery software on the server .

Reporting-MTA: dns; avasout-ptp-004 [IP Address]
Received-From-MTA: dns; [IP Address] [IP Address]
Arrival-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2023 20:54:34 +0100


Final-recipient: rfc822; [GMAIL ACCT]
Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 550-5.7.26 This mail is unauthenticated, which poses a security risk to the

Re: All emails to Gmail bouncing from Freenetname

GKofGTM — Wed, 21 Jun 2023 20:33:02 GMT

Please disregard my above message. I have additional info to add so will make a new post.

Re: All emails to Gmail bouncing from Freenetname

Townman — Wed, 21 Jun 2023 21:33:44 GMT

That is disconcerting!

Sending from myname@myaccount.plus.com using relay.plus.net with authentication enabled will invoke DKIM protocols ... which should keep Gmail quiet!!!