topic Re: forum redesign in Community Site Feedback

forum redesign

mitch — Fri, 03 Aug 2007 13:13:35 GMT

I've been working on implementing some improvements to the readability of the forums. Anyone interested in giving some feedback, could you take a look at the first two concepts below and make your comments?
i'll be working on these throughout the rest of the day so i'll take your comments on board as im developing the concepts further.
thanks in advance.
p.s remember these are graphical concepts, for you to get an idea of the style. so please ignore the content used for posts and forums etc.

Re: forum redesign

Oldjim — Fri, 03 Aug 2007 13:40:02 GMT

They both still have icons washed out colours and I would avoid using the darker grey background because of those users with poor eyesight.
I like the fine lines between the sections.

Re: forum redesign

lingbob — Fri, 03 Aug 2007 13:51:33 GMT

I really like the coloured buttons, particularly the blue ones, but some sort of definite division is needed in between each post. As it is now, each post appears to merge into the next.
Regards .....

Re: forum redesign

Kelly — Fri, 03 Aug 2007 13:54:59 GMT

Quote from: Oldjim
They both still have icons washed out colours

I'm not sure what you mean by that. Which icons? They all seem strong to me on my laptop screen?

Re: forum redesign

Kelly — Fri, 03 Aug 2007 13:56:08 GMT

Quote from: lingbob
As it is now, each post appears to merge into the next.

Does the dark grey line and the lighter grey body of the post not separate it enough? The separation looks very clear to me.

Re: forum redesign

lingbob — Fri, 03 Aug 2007 14:09:08 GMT

No it doesn't
My own personal opinion is that there needs to be a slightly bigger contrast between the background colours and the border needs to go all the way around each post. I feel that if there was a thin border at each end of each post, that would make a tremendous difference.
Regards .....

Re: forum redesign

Penny — Fri, 03 Aug 2007 14:16:11 GMT

Quote from: mitch
could you take a look at the first two concepts below and make your comments?

I like the strong-colour buttons (graphic 2). I realise the "split" button would only be seen by a mod, so would it be possible to have a "reply" button on each individual post also?
Regards,
Penny.

Re: forum redesign

mitch — Fri, 03 Aug 2007 14:37:50 GMT

thats right, a normal user would now only see reply and quote, as in the new concept below.

Re: forum redesign

Oldjim — Fri, 03 Aug 2007 14:53:32 GMT

Quote from: Kelly
Quote from: Oldjim
They both still have icons washed out colours

I'm not sure what you mean by that. Which icons? They all seem strong to me on my laptop screen?

I was looking at the new posts/no new posts buttons but looking again that may be the graphic as opposed to the original
Just did another check and it's my monitor - I have the contrast and brightness turned down

Re: forum redesign

Kelly — Fri, 03 Aug 2007 16:02:03 GMT

Doh!
So, you current feeling right now with that design is?

Re: forum redesign

Oldjim — Fri, 03 Aug 2007 16:24:31 GMT

As I am running the present layout modified so that the column fills the screen I don't have too many problems with the old layout (when I put my monitor back to default settings) except that the white background is a bit overpowering - I have modified Firefox to show the column at 100%.
Just had a look at it in IE7 and then the white within the column is fine but there is an enormous background in white (monitor running at 1680 x 1050).
If the forum is to be modified to show the column at full width I would prefer a muted colour as the background and if it isn't can you add the code to the style sheet to make the whole background a soft muted colour.
With respect to the buttons for reply etc. I find them a bit overpowering.
Are you intending to modify the whole reply logic so that a reply is to a specific post as opposed to the thread as in TBB because that isn't how it works at the moment.

Re: forum redesign

mitch — Fri, 03 Aug 2007 16:36:34 GMT

Quote from: Oldjim
Are you intending to modify the whole reply logic so that a reply is to a specific post as opposed to the thread as in TBB because that isn't how it works at the moment.

no the concept is purely design adding extra functionality, by cloning the reply button on every post to reply to the topic. rather than quoting/replying to individual posts.

Re: forum redesign

jelv — Fri, 03 Aug 2007 16:40:10 GMT

The page background is a huge improvement. But having the white background on alternate posts which is the same as the main table background makes the posts in the dark rows appear to be contained within the light rows. If the light rows had a pale background with the side margins staying white that would be improved. (See the middle post from Liam in http://www.elvin.plus.com/misc/Suggestion.gif to see what I mean).
I also think the new posts/no new posts look rather washed out - particularly in contrast with the buttons.

Re: forum redesign

Oldjim — Fri, 03 Aug 2007 16:43:43 GMT

OK Mitch - understood. In which case I think the buttons should be a lot less obtrusive. if you look at the usergroup forums I find those buttons very clear and obvious with hitting me in the eye.

Re: forum redesign

Midnight_Caller — Fri, 03 Aug 2007 18:38:40 GMT

Another vote!
We need new alternative themes as soon as possible
The colour is problematic for me I am Dyslexic
Can you have the text on top of the buttons, in sted of the text tag, a number of text readers can not read tags.

Re: forum redesign

Gilby — Fri, 03 Aug 2007 23:21:47 GMT

Its much better now without the pale pink stuff - thanks Mitch. But personally I agree with Jim that the Quote etc buttons are too dominant and the alternative example he gives has equivalents that are much less intrusive yet are just as clear and functional.

Re: forum redesign

Kelly — Tue, 07 Aug 2007 08:31:49 GMT

Guys,
Is it worth us pushing ahead to build these? We can always tweak buttons etc later.
This doesn't preclude any further design work. SMF happily supports having multiple skins.

Re: forum redesign

Liam — Tue, 07 Aug 2007 09:34:34 GMT

I like Mitch's design 🙂

Re: forum redesign

Penny — Fri, 10 Aug 2007 11:59:54 GMT

Okay. Dense hat on. Forgive my ignorance of the correct terminology for such things, but I'd appreciate some clarity here.
Does "build the skins" mean, simply, mock up a few pages in css (using the existing comm site layout template) with changed parameters, or does it mean something different from that?
As I understand things (not guaranteed to be a correct perception ), the visual appearance of the comm site is currently generated "off a template". So a new template (skin?) could, for example, have a single change on it (like table borders, or a different colour than the purple, or a different font face, or a call-up of a different set of icons).
Because the rest of us don't have access to the templates/css (other than the source code of, say, the comm site index) I originally mocked up the comm site index page (in ordinary html) as per http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php?topic=367.msg3614#msg3614 (left-hand borders thread).
Having finally created that layout (long process) I then had access to a means of changing various parameters. So I would appreciate some clarity is to whether changing a parameter on the alternate layout (a fairly brief process) is a whole different ballgame to changing-a-parameter-on-a-comm-site-template, if (?) that is what "building a new skin" actually means.
*****
There seem to be a number of primary factors that people have varying views about:
width/visibility of the borders - thick borders, thin borders, no borders
width variables - full width, mid-width (some parts not others), all indented
darkness of the text (both size -1 and size -2)
text font used (ie font face, type of lettering).
emboldened links throughout (or not) (including on post pages)
colour backgrounds
choice of smiley sets
choice of icon sets
*****
There is also the factor of the underlying "type of layout". The existing "template" - comm site original - has a different overall layout from the one I designed - not a great many changes but primarily the settings at the top and bottom, as demonstrated by the difference between the morphed layouts - here (logged-in and logged-out pages in three varying widths) - and the comm site template original - here .
But however the Comm Site ends up, will be based on "a layout" - whether it's the former or the latter, or something any other person here designs - changing the parameters (eg the changes made during the morph (00-10) is a different thing entirely from changing the layout.
I only have the html-layout-version I made, to work with (obviously!) but for whatever it's worth I've made a few examples of "change types" (the sort that I've seen people request in these forums). I've mocked up a few progressions with minimal borders (to suit, it seems, most people) and widened the mid70s and all70s to mid75s and all75s (ie 75%-wide central bit, which is narrower than the existing comm site template (CST) for the post-widths (80%?), although the "big table" on the CST logged-out page looks to be at around 72% and the logged-in page of the existing CST looks here, at any rate, to be left-indented further than the logged-out version). I don't see any particular logic (sorry) in the width varying from one CST page to another within a single set-up (or skin?).
I've also changed the "small font face" to Verdana (which I discovered on the logged-in-version would actually embolden in small font, ie size="-2") in various places, to give a clearer idea of what might be possible.
There are "two sets" - one "purple", like the existing forum layout (all the folders with "morph" at the front) and a similar set of changes to the design I mocked up originally (all the ones with "test" at the front, in the newset04 folder.
*****
Given the noticeable lack of "staff comment" on the customization thread - http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php?topic=492.0 - I have no way of knowing whether change-it-to-suit-your-own-requirements is going to be offered to members of these forums. I don't (entirely) see the logic of not enabling it, given that so many people actively dislike the current visual aspects of the comm site forums whilst others think it's absolutely perfect (and individual customization would allow both sets of people to be equally happy with the outcome).
Regards,
Penny.

Re: forum redesign

Penny — Fri, 10 Aug 2007 12:01:02 GMT

Further to the above post (drafted a day or two back, but not posted then as I was waiting to see how other people replied on this thread) there have been some further thoughts which I include below, in some attempt at identifying *why* it's important this Community Site becomes (visually at least) all that it's capable of.
Bright pages with good colour contrasts engage an audience, make a page memorable, bring people back.
Surreal is fine (I like surreal). But largely-pale pages set against a white background, with meandering side borders (from one page to the next, or within a page) and huge gaps at the foot of the webpage don't come across as "finished", or surreal either, come to that. They just look scrappy, like it wasn't important to get it right.
Such things might not appear "important". But this is a *community site*, designed to be all things to all people, somewhere where 200,000 PN-group customers can get to know one another (quite aside from the practicalities of gaining or imparting info on how Internet connections can be made the most of, and such like).
Whatever "format" these pages eventually take has to be "broadly appealing" to the majority of PN-group customers. Which, tbh, at present they aren't, judging by the unprecedented volume of complaints about the visual appearance.
If a "default format" can be designed that is eye-catching but clear and definite and well-integrated, then "customization" can offer each forum member the opportunity to fine-tune to suit their own preferences. Be those blue and purple, or black and gold, or monochrome, or whatever, with thin borders, thick borders, dark background, white background, dark text, pale text (etc. etc.).
At odd spare moments spread out over the last few days I mocked-up the two sequences at set04.
(1) a standardised version of "the purple pages" with a number of minor parameter changes x logged-out and logged-in formats in three width varieties
(2) a similar sort of sequence of the blue-and-orange page I made originally, showing how it would look with various types of parameters changed.
The sequences are designed to show what fine-tuning could offer in terms of altered visual appearance. Both sets are from "one layout" (but they offer a wide variety of different outcomes to perhaps-suit the individual expressed preferences of a lot of people here). Clearly these are just *two* examples of "possible colour combinations", laid out in a variety of formats drawn from a single overall layout.

Why have I bothered to do this? Really can't answer that. I've been a part of the F9/PN "community" for nine years now (albeit we never before had a meeting-place to which PN shepherded customers-en-masse) and we have the chance to create something here that's uniquely different from any other ISP-enabled "community".
"How things look, visually" is likely to be a significant aspect of that, and anything that can be done to make this whole "community" area somewhere people will choose to spend time, and get involved, and feel at home, is *important*.

Yes perhaps it would be "easier" to choose few default formats (skins?) and limit the colour / design choices available to forum members. But it would be no more time-consuming to identify a "default layout" that's "broadly okay" and enable each individual to set up "their personal view" exactly how they like.
*something* needs to change, for this community site to be "got right". I guess I would just not like to see "the purple pages" become an epitaph to "PlusNet Past".
Regards,
Penny.