topic Re: Business account closure possibly moving back to residential and rdns in Business

Business account closure possibly moving back to residential and rdns

Louc — Fri, 09 Jun 2023 10:57:12 GMT

Hi,

Just wondered if anybody else is in the same boat as myself. I am getting conflicting messages from Plusnet as regards moving back to residential from business. I have been with Plusnet for 20 years so my setup may be different but when I signed up to residential I chose a user name which became my dns space *****.plus.net and associated email address. I then requested a block of IP addresses and setup my email delivery to be smtp and I was given a host name for my reverse dns as mail.*****.plus.net. I have three external domains that all point to the same mx record of mail.*****.plus.net and the same ip address. I then moved over to business and nothing changed apart from my ip range. I am now being told that moving back to residential will mean I will lose my email, no big deal here as all I get on that is spam from when Plusnet's squirrel mail was hacked many years ago. I will lose my block of ip addresses as it's residential though I'm sure other isp's offer blocks of ip's on their residential contracts. But also that all associated mail stuff will also go, This was the term used by Plusnet. Reverse dns as the name implies is not really to do with email specifically but with DNS so not sure why this should change. Anybody have any thoughts?

Re: Business account closure possibly moving back to residential and rdns

Townman — Fri, 09 Jun 2023 13:48:14 GMT

There is a lot packed in there. Let me try to deliver the had to swallow pills one at a time...

Business accounts are being closed down, with no option to SWITCH the EXISTING ACCOUNT to RESIDENTIAL
A closed account loses everything it has
- Plusnet email - you infer you run your own email service - if you have used @account.plus.com that will just vaporise with no post closure means of managing it gracefully - you need to plan to move any use of that to an email address / domain you have full control over
- Static IP address / groups - existing addresses will be lost and cannot be recovered
- Webspace and cgi space
- Hosted domain name
- Referrals
New residential accounts do not have
- email
- webspace nor cgi services
- hosted domain name
- if FTTP a voice service
- free static IP address - note that elsewhere the question of a block of 8 IP addresses on a residential service has been requested
- rDNS modification - there has been a deal of debate of if this is permitted on residential accounts - historically it was "Yes", somewhere along the line it was explicitly "No" and now, it seems to be a matter of who picks up the request

I have a referral with a 24 month business account "sold" just two weeks before the announcement of the demise of business services. At the time of placing the contract, due to the nature of the business, Plusnet was asked explicitly that if (our) business failed, could the account be "changed" to a residential for the residual duration of the contract and we were assured "Yes".

At the moment there appears to be strong arm twisting to go to BT (the last option I would chose), but we are refusing to be pressurised and will hold Plusnet to either fulfil their side of the 24 month contract or to declare that they cannot and allow an exit without ETCs. All this is most sad, because like your self, my preference would be to remain with Plusnet.

Thankfully (unlike my previous Plusnet business account) the email and webservices are elsewhere ... but not as good as those once offered by Plusnet.

Re: Business account closure possibly moving back to residential and rdns

Louc — Fri, 09 Jun 2023 14:35:33 GMT

It's worse than that. Last week I received an email from Plusnet advising me that no new orders can be taken for services over analogue lines and if I wish to retain my existing landline service I must switch before the 5th September. Yesterday I was frantically trying to find a new provider. I did receive an enquiry from XLN Telecom as I had filled out a form online. They appeared to offer me exactly what I wanted and cheap (that was the warning) but the number that called me is a well known scam number. When I rang XLN from a number on their website they did have my details and who I spoke to so it may have been genuine. Having said that I have not received an email with the offer so who knows. He is meant to be calling me back next week so we shall see. Most of the ISP's I have spoken to have no idea of rDNS including the tech departments. You can just imagine the tumbleweed drifting through their brains as they try to work it out. I'm also waiting for a call back from Vodafone who are supposed to do it but when you call them again..... nothing. It's as you said in your reply. It depends who you get. I may have to resort to the ombudsman that this is unreasonable treatment. If I can find another suitable ISP then it will be easier to just leave.

Re: Business account closure possibly moving back to residential and rdns

Townman — Fri, 09 Jun 2023 16:09:49 GMT

Take a look at Zen and A&A.

Re: Business account closure possibly moving back to residential and rdns

Louc — Fri, 09 Jun 2023 18:30:02 GMT

I am looking at Zen at the moment A&A do seem to be pricey.

In the meantime I have been having another conversation with a supervisor at Plusnet.

1. He thought the email that I received regarding the 5/9/2023 switch off was spam. It came from comm.plusnet.net and he could not find anything on my account to say they had sent me this email. (more on this in a moment)

2. There is no switch off of landline on the 5/9/2023 this will happen at the end of 2025

3. Nothing will happen to my business account until the end of my contract, which in my case is the beginning of February 2024

4. Plusnet residential have stopped offering static ip addresses so no chance of rDNS or anything else that requires one.

As regards the email I received. I actually think it is genuine but badly worded. I think what they are trying to tell me is that after the 5/9/2023 if I decide I want to move to Plusnet Residential or anybody who uses an openreach provider then there will be no landline with it as they are adopting something called Stop Sell (presumably it will be sogea only) I presumed that all lines were to be migrated to voip but it does not seem like it. I'm sure this will surface at some point as a serious issue and it could be postponed. I have not seen any TV adverts warning of this which I would assume they would do as people who have had landlines for decades (I've had mine almost 30 years) suddenly run the risk of losing them if they switch providers. after this date.

Re: Business account closure possibly moving back to residential and rdns

MisterW — Fri, 09 Jun 2023 19:11:12 GMT

I think what they are trying to tell me is that after the 5/9/2023 if I decide I want to move to Plusnet Residential or anybody who uses an openreach provider then there will be no landline with it as they are adopting something called Stop Sell

that's exactly correct. Openreach have announced WLR (wholesale line rental) stop sell for Septm2023 , so no new orders for copper line rental will be accepted after that. Existing line rental contracts can be renewed until Pstn switch off in 2025.

. Plusnet residential have stopped offering static ip addresses so no chance of rDNS or anything else that requires one

I believe that's wrong. Static IPs ( single) are still offered and whilst there has been some discussions on the availability of rDNS in the superuser space recently, as far as we are aware it's still possible.

Re: Business account closure possibly moving back to residential and rdns

Louc — Fri, 09 Jun 2023 20:12:14 GMT

I believe that's wrong. Static IPs ( single) are still offered and whilst there has been some discussions on the availability of rDNS in the superuser space recently, as far as we are aware it's still possible.

I tend to agree but if you can't get anybody to do it for you..... I have lost count of the amount of people I have spoken to at Plusnet since yesterday, then for me it is pie in the sky. I have to go elsewhere or drastically change the way my email currently works. Going elsewhere is an issue even when you are sure they support these options. Mention rDNS and you might as well be speaking Klingon.

that's exactly correct. Openreach have announced WLR (wholesale line rental) stop sell  for Septm2023 , so no new orders for copper line rental will be accepted after that. Existing line rental contracts can be renewed until Pstn switch off in 2025.

I presume renewed means if you stay with your current provider? If you move to another ISP after the 5th September then you will not keep you landline or associated number? I don't know if anybody has received the same email as myself but this is what it says below and to me it it suggests moving to Plusnet Residential after the 5th will also result in the loss of my landline.

The first step in the switch to digital is that any provider who uses the Openreach network, including Plusnet, will no longer be able to place orders for new services that run over traditional analogue telephone lines from the 5th September 2023*.

Find out more

If you wish to retain your existing landline service you’ll need to migrate your service from Plusnet Business before the 5th September 2023.

As part of the BT Group, we have a team of dedicated specialists who can help find the best broadband solution for your business, all at a great price.

We’ll also waive any early termination fees if you’re still within the minimum term of your agreement with us.

To discuss this further, call us today on today on 0800 389 7854 and we can arrange everything for you.

If you are in the process of migrating to another provider, then please ignore this email, you don’t need to do anything further.

Re: Business account closure possibly moving back to residential and rdns

Louc — Fri, 09 Jun 2023 20:09:49 GMT

This may be easier to read

Re: Business account closure possibly moving back to residential and rdns

Townman — Fri, 09 Jun 2023 22:41:42 GMT

Some clarification might help in the "stop sell" space.

Once that bites in an area, an account holder can only renew the product they are on on a copper service.

The fact that you are you is not considered to be the same user should you switch from Biz to Res - as far as anyone is concerned, it is a new contract, new provision, even though it is still with Plusnet, it might as well be with another provider.

If you want to keep the landline number, ultimately YOU will need to plan to move that to VoIP.

Where broadband can still be ordered over copper (FTTC) an existing user (that is an existing account) can swap to SOGEA by calling COTS ... but you need a new account and therefore will be treated as a new customer, for whom at the moment that option does not exist.

Frankly BT Openreach's planning for the demise of PTSN is a shambles. The decision of BT Consumer Division (way above the heads of Plusnet's management) to pull the rung from underneath Plusnet's business users is at best callus and timed badly.

At its worst, Plusnet's support is better that anything provided by BT Retail.

Re: Business account closure possibly moving back to residential and rdns

MisterW — Sat, 10 Jun 2023 06:36:43 GMT

@Louc the full gory detail on Stop sell , both WLR and Fibre Proirity is here https://www.openreach.co.uk/cpportal/products/the-all-ip-programme/stopsell-updates

Going elsewhere is an issue even when you are sure they support these options. Mention rDNS and you might as well be speaking Klingon.

As @Townman said earlier , look at Zen. They will still provide multiple statics and you dont have to find someone who knows what rDNS is, you can change it from your account control panel https://www.zen.co.uk/help-support/changing-a-rdns-record/ .

I have a Zen connection with 8 statics in the Office and their support is pretty good, apart from voip for which I'm with A & A.

Re: Business account closure possibly moving back to residential and rdns

Louc — Mon, 12 Jun 2023 19:01:50 GMT

As @Townman said earlier , look at Zen. They will still provide multiple statics and you dont have to find someone who knows what rDNS is, you can change it from your account control panel https://www.zen.co.uk/help-support/changing-a-rdns-record/ .

I have a Zen connection with 8 statics in the Office and their support is pretty good, apart from voip for which I'm with A & A.

For rDNS would this be the business package or is it also available on residential. I know the statics are available on residential. I suppose one was spoilt at Plusnet, to have the equivalent with Zen of up to 80 speed and my phone line and a block of static ip addresses is going to set me back £19 more a month. That's not trivial. Also at the moment I'm not impressed with trying to get hold of someone at Zen. I have been disconnected from tech support, the sales team knew nothing about rDNS and the chat also disconnected me. Not a good start.

Re: Business account closure possibly moving back to residential and rdns

Louc — Mon, 12 Jun 2023 19:06:46 GMT

If you want to keep the landline number, ultimately YOU will need to plan to move that to VoIP.

Do you know if you are able to port just the land line part of the service from Plusnet and keep the broadband active so that I have more time to decide on the broadband side of things?

Re: Business account closure possibly moving back to residential and rdns

MisterW — Mon, 12 Jun 2023 19:18:43 GMT

If you port the landline number it will ceasecthe landline and any associated broadband will therefore get ceased also.

For rDNS would this be the business package or is it also available on residential

Ours is a business connection , so not sure if it's available on res but this https://www.zen.co.uk/help-support/changing-a-rdns-record/ doesn't say bus only

Re: Business account closure possibly moving back to residential and rdns

Louc — Mon, 12 Jun 2023 19:23:26 GMT

@MisrerW

Thanks for that. I thought the whole lot would go. Looks like I am resigned to losing my number of 30 years. I will have to revert to using one of my voip numbers, though I have never been completely confident that those cannot just disappear at the drop of a hat. Sipgate tried it on me once but luckily there was a lot of discontent amongst their customers and they reversed the decision. I will keep trying Zen for an answer on rDNS for residential.

Re: Business account closure possibly moving back to residential and rdns

MisterW — Mon, 12 Jun 2023 19:58:17 GMT

Looks like I am resigned to losing my number of 30 years

don't forget that OFCOM have decreed that numbers must remain available for porting for up to 30 days after cease. Although experience on other threads show that some voip providers don't seem to be able to port non active numbers

Re: Business account closure possibly moving back to residential and rdns

Louc — Thu, 31 Aug 2023 15:52:43 GMT

Hi,

I thought I would give an uipdate on this. This all a mess.

Firstly I don't think I require rdns for my email server to work. I set this up decades ago when none of this was relevant and I have always used a smart host for outgoing emails, relay.plus.net to begin with and now a third party one who do the authentication. To the best of my knowledge rdns is only required for outbound and not inbound email.

So, I have been trying now for 10 days to switch back to residential with a static IP address and not to take my landline and am getting nowhere. My first thoughts judging by their behaviour is that Plusnet are on the way out as a company (I have heard some rumours in some parts to this effect which may or may not be true) Any thoughts?

I tried Vodafone but can't get past the sales team and they tell me that I can't use my own router even though there is evidence of this on the Vodafone forums. Again any thoughts?

In my attempt to get the Plusnet call resolved somehow I ended up at BT sales so I decided to ask what they could offer with a SOGEA connection. I was told I could have SOGEA, though he had to check if it was available (being that the lines are going anyway I was not sure why I could not have this) Anyway turns out it's fine and I can have just a broadband connection at £18.95 + £5.76 for one staic IP address + VAT. But.... an engineer needs to come in to change my socket as the connection/line will be digital as it is SOGEA. Now no matter how much I tried I could not figure out whether he meant FTTH or FTTC with something different inside my home. I'm pretty certain that there is no FTTH in my area unless I go Virgin.

I am currently awaiting a call from Plusnet in the next 20 minutes but i'm not holding my breath.

Re: Business account closure possibly moving back to residential and rdns

RealAleMadrid — Thu, 31 Aug 2023 16:58:53 GMT

@Louc BT are telling you rubbish, SOGEA is just FTTC with no phone service over the existing copper line from the cabinet so no changes required to your socket.

I don't understand why Plusnet are being so difficult, there should be no problem moving you to a residential SOGEA account.🙄

Re: Business account closure possibly moving back to residential and rdns

Louc — Thu, 31 Aug 2023 17:10:14 GMT

@RealAleMadrid I suspected BT were talking rubbish but I have had so many variations from different providers that I can never be sure now. Unfortunately IMO this country is experiencing a high level of dumbing down. Plusnet did eventually call me back, and it looks like it might finally be going ahead. Someone will be calling me tomorrow to finalise, hopefully.

Re: Business account closure possibly moving back to residential and rdns

knowdice — Fri, 01 Sep 2023 09:04:47 GMT

@Louc

I have just moved to Vodafone over City Fibre getting their 100mbs service +phone, I also moved my domain away from Plusnet to Google domains and am running my own email server.

So some notes and info that may help...

Email server is Modoboa running on Ubuntu the hardware is a Friendly Elect Nano Pi R6C with 32GB of EMMC and most importantly this hardware supports an NVMe SSD - so boot off the EMMC but run OS etc from the SSD. No fans just a really nice little cast metal case, I haven't checked power consumption but should be around 5 watts.

Vodafone [gosh it's hard-work talking to them] any how....If you ask nicely...They have configured a static public IP for me and have also given me the PPPoE login info and SIP login credentials server etc (still to check those) it seems like a variety of Grandstream ATA will work with their SIP voice service,

Forum shows:

GXP1620 - Wired Phone
GXP1625 - Wired Phone
HT801 - ATA (Tested by many)
HT802 - ATA (Tested by many)
HT812 - ATA (Tested by many)
WP810 - WiFi Phone
WP822 - WiFi Phone

That's it for the moment from me, will let you now once I have transferred to Draytek router and probably HT801 ATA

Re: Business account closure possibly moving back to residential and rdns

Louc — Fri, 01 Sep 2023 15:27:07 GMT

@knowdice

Thanks for that info. Would be nice to hear if you can get your Draytek to work as that is the same make of router that I have. There is no reason why it should not work. The mail server hardware sounds interesting from a power consumption point of view. My setup is Microsoft Active Directory with an exchange server so would have to totally change the way of working at my end to try something like that.

Vodafone may still be an option for me as I have not received my phone call from Plusnet today even though it had been escalated and promised. The person I spoke to just now reiterated what I have already heard many times from my numerous phone calls, that the provisioning of accounts whether they are new or migrations used to be carried out by front line staff, but for some reason they decided a dedicated team was the way to go. This is obviously not working at all and it definitely looks to me that this is a failing company that won't last for too long. Plusnet used to be the tecchies ISP. If I'm not mistaken they may have been the only 'wires only' provider in 2002 which is how long I have been with them (by the way loyalty appears not to hold any sympathy in the way I am being treated) I know the answer is to look elsewhere but most of the ISP's I have spoken to are just as bad if not worse. I am now awaiting a call before close of play today.