topic Re: Drop out at the same time every evening in Broadband

Drop out at the same time every evening

Wildroverandy — Fri, 25 Oct 2024 19:21:59 GMT

Hi,

We seem to get a drop out most evenings, at exactly the same time (8:10pm). We have no speed issues - a steady 70+Mbps down and 19Mbps up. I don't notice this happening at any other time.

We mostly notice it as it's often in the middle of watching something we're streaming, which freezes, and then needs restarting once the drop out clears.

I'm using a BT Business Smart Hub, which I got to use bridge mode for a while, but it has better WiFi than the Plusnet Hub One we originally got, so I continue to use it in a normal setup.

I have tried swapping the modems back, but it made no difference, so reasonably sure it's not a modem, or setting, issue.

It's not like a full reboot of the router either, the red light flashes away, but not for as long as when you do a reboot, then pretty much goes straight back to blue, and all is fine again (the BT router usually also cycles through green during a reboot, and takes ages to start up again).

I can only think there's a Plusnet reset going on, or something like it.

Don't know if one of the PN guys could perhaps have a look and see if anything is going on there.

Re: Drop out at the same time every evening

jab1 — Fri, 25 Oct 2024 19:23:46 GMT

@Wildroverandy Does the error log give any clues?

Re: Drop out at the same time every evening

Wildroverandy — Fri, 25 Oct 2024 19:51:48 GMT

Hi John,

Thanks, well, it seems to confirm the connection at least, here's an extract from the log that seem relevant to the problem.

20:09:27, 25 Oct.

:VLAN VLAN_DATA disconnected

20:09:27, 25 Oct.

:Connection to the Internet has been terminated.(Reboot,Reconfiguration,forced termination)

20:09:25, 25 Oct.

ppp1:The DYN ROUTE [212.159.6.9/32 gw 172.16.13.163] is deleted

20:09:25, 25 Oct.

ppp1:The DYN ROUTE [212.159.13.49/32 gw 172.16.13.163] is deleted

20:09:23, 25 Oct.

dsl:VDSL Link Down: duration was 259141 seconds

I'm not sure how much of it is needed here, but I found a similar set of data from two days ago.

Cheers,

Andy.

Re: Drop out at the same time every evening

jab1 — Fri, 25 Oct 2024 20:09:31 GMT

@Wildroverandy Can you export the whole log, and attach it to a post, please - extracts are not too helpful. Might be tomorrow before I look, though.

Re: Drop out at the same time every evening

Wildroverandy — Fri, 25 Oct 2024 21:16:21 GMT

@jab1 yes, I can do that.

Thanks.

Re: Drop out at the same time every evening

jab1 — Sat, 26 Oct 2024 06:55:11 GMT

Not being a network engineer, I could be wrong here, but I suspect the constant ~48 hour 'bootstrap' entries in that log will give someone an idea.

I don't know, but I would suspect a failing Hub.

@MisterW - am I barking up the wrong tree?

Re: Drop out at the same time every evening

Dan_the_Van — Sat, 26 Oct 2024 07:19:50 GMT

@jab1

You need to look at the events sequence

16:00:42, 11 Oct.,ppp1:TR69 connectivity to (pbthdmw.bt.m) has failed 16:00:42, 11 Oct.,ppp1:TR69 unable to send Inform message 16:00:42, 11 Oct.,ppp1:TR69 event found : 0 BOOTSTRAP 16:00:41, 11 Oct.,ppp1:TR69 sending Inform message 16:00:39, 11 Oct.,ppp1:TR69 creating new session with ACS

The Hub repeatedly attempting to contact the TR69 system to report a BOOTSTRAP ( a system start of the hub)

So these messages are a result of "TR69 connectivity to (pbthdmw.bt.m) has failed"

I found two VDSL down/up message for 22nd and 25th, the event log only goes back to 11th October

20:09:49, 25 Oct.,dsl:VDSL link Up: Down Rate=97099Kbps, Up Rate=19999Kbps, SNR Margin Down=0.00dB, SNR Margin Up=3.00dB 20:09:23, 25 Oct.,dsl:VDSL Link Down: duration was 259141 seconds 20:10:25, 22 Oct.,dsl:VDSL link Up: Down Rate=97130Kbps, Up Rate=19999Kbps, SNR Margin Down=0.00dB, SNR Margin Up=3.00dB 20:09:59, 22 Oct.,dsl:VDSL Link Down: duration was 304066 second

I leave the rest to you and @MisterW

Re: Drop out at the same time every evening

jab1 — Sat, 26 Oct 2024 07:25:05 GMT

@Dan_the_Van Thanks. I found (I think) 330 'BOOTSTRAP' entries, but as I said above, this is off my pay-grade, so I am reluctant to comment further.

Re: Drop out at the same time every evening

Dan_the_Van — Sat, 26 Oct 2024 07:34:46 GMT

@jab1

my guess behind the messages is that pbthdmw.bt.m no longer exists, it is not contactable from the plusnet network or maybe the device is longer registered on the BT management system.

The two VDSL drops would be more of a concern for now.

For me I'd look to see if plusnet would supply a Hub Two, which should provide better wireless coverage to a Hub One, this may require a contract renewal.

Re: Drop out at the same time every evening

jab1 — Sat, 26 Oct 2024 07:35:41 GMT

Fair enough, @Dan_the_Van

Re: Drop out at the same time every evening

MisterW — Sat, 26 Oct 2024 07:54:57 GMT

So these messages are a result of "TR69 connectivity to (pbthdmw.bt.m) has failed"

@jab1 I'd concur with @Dan_the_Van , its trying ( and failing ) to contact the BT TR069 server to report the bootstrap. Nothing to be concerned about.

As @Dan_the_Van says, the DSL drops are the problem. What's confusing me slightly is that on the DSL Up , the Downstream sysnc is reported as 97 - 101 Mb!! The max VDSL sysnc should be 80 Mb!

Maybe the BT hub is reporting the maximum available ?

Either way, a Hub 2 is going to be useful , if only that it will enable CSC to get diagnostics, and therefore be able to progress any fault report

Re: Drop out at the same time every evening

jab1 — Sat, 26 Oct 2024 08:25:48 GMT

Cheers, @MisterW . I'll leave the decisions to @Wildroverandy .

Re: Drop out at the same time every evening

Baldrick1 — Sat, 26 Oct 2024 08:40:56 GMT

What I noticed is that whilst the connection is reportedly droppimg every day at the same time, sync has not been lost for almost exactly 3 days.It is also trying to pick up again with a lowly 3dB upsream SNR suggesting that there is a lot of noise on the line.

This suggests to me that the cause is something local that is switching, most likely on a time clock, each evening.

@Wildroverandy

Do you have anything that is switching at this time such as a central heationg boiler? Also is the hub located away from appliances such as a TV?

Re: Drop out at the same time every evening

Dan_the_Van — Sat, 26 Oct 2024 09:09:59 GMT

Not disagreeing with the possible cause, as switch which causes electrical noise when switching to OFF would be a likely contender.

A Hub Two would of benefit as it may reduce the superfluous event messages that are occurring.

What would be helpful would to know the following from the BT Hub.

Data rate:
Noise margin:
Line attenuation:
Signal attenuation:

Re: Drop out at the same time every evening

Baldrick1 — Sat, 26 Oct 2024 09:24:07 GMT

@Dan_the_Van

I carefully avoided using the Off word. I agree that disconnecting can put a nasty spike on the line, which can cause issues. But also will devices such as fluorescent light starters, spark generators in gas fired appliances etc. generate high levels of interference when switching On.

Re: Drop out at the same time every evening

Dan_the_Van — Sat, 26 Oct 2024 09:47:21 GMT

@Baldrick1

Again not disagreeing it will be interesting to see if the drop moves to around 19:00 from tomorrow !

Re: Drop out at the same time every evening

Wildroverandy — Sat, 26 Oct 2024 15:01:57 GMT

@Baldrick1 wrote:

What I noticed is that whilst the connection is reportedly droppimg every day at the same time, sync has not been lost for almost exactly 3 days.It is also trying to pick up again with a lowly 3dB upsream SNR suggesting that there is a lot of noise on the line.

This suggests to me that the cause is something local that is switching, most likely on a time clock, each evening.

@Wildroverandy

Do you have anything that is switching at this time such as a central heationg boiler? Also is the hub located away from appliances such as a TV?

Hi @Baldrick1

Hmm, nothing like that I think. It is near the TV, inevitably though, as that's where the viewing area for the room is best, and where the power and phone line are. Not really much I can do about parting them much further. But as far as I can see, there shouldn't be anything particular doing a clock cycle at that time.

It's not the time of the heating system, the only other timed widget is the Smart Meter display, but that doesn't sleep until 21:00.

Other devices are in use (such as FreeView box, or the AppleTV), and the TV is of course on..

I can look at getting a Hub Two I suppose, but I'm in limbo with that at the moment. I'm on standard Fibre at the moment, and being in a rented house, we have not been able to attain permission to switch to Full Fibre yet (the owner is fussy about some things, and probably concerned about losing the landline).

My contract is up early in the new year, and at the moment I am planning to stick with PlusNet, but that will depend on whether we get an offer to renew at a sensible price - I note that everyone is pushing the FF contracts now.

Although I am also considering options that include TV (such as the EE deals).

I can try reverting back to the Hub One, it's OK for most of it, and I do try to use Ethernet as much as possible (even with PowerPlugs). Although this does occur when that is used too.

Not sure about the noise, as I say, the speeds we get are very good, and stable (72/19 is normal), until these evening dropouts. We also have underground cables that aren't too old, and checking audibly on the landline phone, is dead quiet (no crackling or hissing etc.).

Thanks all,

Re: Drop out at the same time every evening

Baldrick1 — Sat, 26 Oct 2024 15:50:29 GMT

@Wildroverandy

It could be external to your property.The fact that that it only happens at this time still makes me think that the cause is electrical noise. One thing that you could do is revert to your Hub 1 and run the Routerstats dsl monitoring package during this time in the evening to see if you can capture the cause. See http://vwlowen.co.uk/RouterStatsHub/routerstatshub.htm. Routerstats will not run on a Hub 6 or Plusnet Hub 2. The Plusnet Hub 1 is basically a BT HH5A. If you need help with this please ask.

If your contract expires early in the new year you may find that Plusnet are reluctant to give you a Hub 2 for the P&P charge unless you take out a new contract.

The traditional landline phone service is being switched off at the end of next year, so I'm afraid that your landlord will have to accept the change soon, regardless of whether an upgrade to full fibre is implemented.

As the router event log is showing these drops it will affect all forms of connection, be they wireless, Ethernet or Ethernet via powerline devices..

Re: Drop out at the same time every evening

Wildroverandy — Sat, 26 Oct 2024 20:54:07 GMT

@Baldrick1 thank you for all off that. I've reconnected the Hub One now, and will see how that goes over the next few days.

Seems like I'll be making an easier decision come the new year then.

I'll report back when I know how this performs.

Cheers.

Re: Drop out at the same time every evening

Townman — Sun, 27 Oct 2024 11:00:38 GMT

I suggest that part of the answer is already reported on the forum - see https://community.plus.net/t5/My-Router/Using-A-BT-Smarthub-An-Update/m-p/1867066#M31556

[ I found this by searching for pbthdmw.bt.m ]