topic Re: Terrible ping times (>2000ms) in Broadband

Terrible ping times (>2000ms)

dsberry — Mon, 12 Feb 2024 19:52:41 GMT

I'm regularly getting ping times of several thousand milliseconds. The following shows ping times in ms over a couple of days, measured at one minute intervals.

This is using a wired connection to the router, but wireless connections see similar problems. I've tried in on several computers using both Windows and Linux and get the same result.

During a period of high ping time, I typically get something like the following traceroute (this one was measured over about an hour):

Note, average ping times over the hour are over 2000 ms. Needless to say, the internet connection is utterly useless. Any clues as to what's going on?

Re: Terrible ping times (>2000ms)

Anonymous — Mon, 12 Feb 2024 21:38:57 GMT

What type of broadband do you have ? (ADSL, FTTC, SoGEA, FTTP)

What model of router are you using ?

On a wired connection, when your connection isn't otherwise being used,

can you run this test - https://www.waveform.com/tools/bufferbloat ,

when completed, find underneath the results - "Share Your Results:", press the <Copy> button,

and then paste that line into your reply here.

@dsberry wrote:

Any clues as to what's going on?

I'm guessing that your issue is related to your broadband upload bandwidth being compromised in some way,

which could be -

very low upload speed
you're somehow clogging your upstream - e.g. with a BitTorrent, video calling, or sending data to cloud storage, etc
your router might be really bad at handling bufferbloat
unlikely but has been seen before, a fault in the Openreach network

Re: Terrible ping times (>2000ms)

greygit1 — Mon, 12 Feb 2024 21:38:39 GMT

Is there a device on your local/home network that is saturating the upstream and/or downstream bandwidth?

The latency (high ping times) and apparent packet loss between your gateway device back to Plusnet (and further) could indicate that.

Re: Terrible ping times (>2000ms)

Anonymous — Mon, 12 Feb 2024 22:26:35 GMT

@dsberry - just as a comparison of your mtr, this is mine from a not Plusnet connection -

$ mtr ntp.plus.net Loss% Snt Last Avg Best Wrst StDev 1.|-- My-home-router 0.0% 10 0.2 0.2 0.2 0.3 0.0 2.|-- My-ISPs-LNS-router 0.0% 10 6.7 6.7 6.4 7.0 0.2 3.|-- My-ISPs-BGP-router 0.0% 10 6.8 6.8 6.5 8.0 0.4 4.|-- linx1.ukcore.bt.net 0.0% 10 7.3 8.1 6.9 12.3 1.7 5.|-- core6-hu0-0-0-19.faraday.ukcore.bt.net 0.0% 10 7.3 7.8 7.2 10.1 0.9 6.|-- host213-121-192-65.ukcore.bt.net 0.0% 10 7.4 7.7 7.4 8.2 0.2 7.|-- 31.55.186.102 0.0% 10 7.1 7.6 7.1 9.5 0.7 8.|-- 100.0% 10 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0

Re: Terrible ping times (>2000ms)

bobpullen — Tue, 13 Feb 2024 10:54:24 GMT

@greygit1 wrote:

Is there a device on your local/home network that is saturating the upstream and/or downstream bandwidth?

@dsberry - what is your upstream speed?

An availability checker suggests that it may not be much more than 1mbps? If this is the case, then @greygit1 may well be onto something.

Yesterday between ~4pm-8pm you uploaded > 300MB of data/hr, which probably isn't far off completely swamping your available upstream bandwidth.

This also coincides with the 'noise' on the graphing you've posted.

Re: Terrible ping times (>2000ms)

dsberry — Wed, 14 Feb 2024 09:58:40 GMT

@Anonymous Thanks for the suggestions. I have an FTTC connection. My router is a Plusnet Hub Two (firmware v0.10.00.04201-PN). The bufferbloat result link is

https://www.waveform.com/tools/bufferbloat?test-id=c0f8170e-cd29-427c-9429-0c80da564f3d

Looks like I do indeed have a bufferbloat problem. Thanks for pointing this out. Certainly the bad ping times on my time plot do correspond to when the connection was being used. But in practice I do see very large ping times quite often even when doing simple web browsing, when no heavy transfers are active (at least, none that I know of). Also, this problem has developed over time. When I first received my plusnet router things were fine for a while. My upload speed has never been brilliant (around 1 Mbps), but originally it seemed to be enough. But not now.

Re: Terrible ping times (>2000ms)

dsberry — Wed, 14 Feb 2024 10:15:52 GMT

@greygit1 There are no such devices that I know of. But obviously I could have missed something. Does anyone have suggestions about easy to use tools to determine what data transfers are occurring?

Re: Terrible ping times (>2000ms)

Anonymous — Wed, 14 Feb 2024 11:35:16 GMT

Yep, looks like you've got a problem there -

@dsberry wrote:

My upload speed has never been brilliant (around 1 Mbps), but originally it seemed to be enough. But not now.

@dsberry the fundamental problem you have is that your upload speed is currently too low for FTTC.

From years of overcoming bufferbloat on my previous "ADSLMax Premium" connection (upload sync 832Kb), I can tell you that there is a tipping point for bufferbloat going bad, and that occurs when the available upload bandwidth goes below about 710Kbps to 720Kbps - due to physics and maths.

This seems to match with your experience, in that your broadband was OK when the upload speed was nearer to 1Mbps, and now it's terrible with your upload speed at 699Kbps.

The first thing you are going to need to try is getting your upload speed back up towards 1Mbps, as the usual anti-bufferbloat measures won't work until you have enough available margin on your upload bandwidth to buffer your outgoing data stream.

First a few questions -

Does your BT Master Socket have a filtered faceplate ?
Is your router plugged in to the Master Socket faceplate with a short cable ?
Do you have a landline telephone plugged in, and if so is it into the Master Socket or an extension socket ?
Does your house have telephone extension wiring at all ?
Do you happen to have ANY other routers available to play with - if so what model numbers are they ?

Re: Terrible ping times (>2000ms)

Dan_the_Van — Wed, 14 Feb 2024 14:29:51 GMT

@dsberry wrote:

Does anyone have suggestions about easy to use tools to determine what data transfers are occurring?

If you click on this link http://192.168.1.254/basic_-_my_devices.htm you will see all the devices connected/disconnected to your Hub Two

The right side column details down and upload data usage. This will help to determine which device is using the most data.

Could you also post a screens shot of Advanced settings >Technical log, obscuring your broadband username. This will detail your line sync speeds

At best you can only expect a bufferbloat grade C with a hub two.

Re: Terrible ping times (>2000ms)

dsberry — Wed, 14 Feb 2024 14:57:13 GMT

@Anonymous To answer your questions:

Does your BT Master Socket have a filtered faceplate ? Yes it does.
Is your router plugged in to the Master Socket faceplate with a short cable ? About 2m
Do you have a landline telephone plugged in, and if so is it into the Master Socket or an extension socket ? Yes, into the master socket.
Does your house have telephone extension wiring at all ? No
Do you happen to have ANY other routers available to play with - if so what model numbers are they ? No

Thanks again for your help.

Re: Terrible ping times (>2000ms)

dsberry — Wed, 14 Feb 2024 15:06:43 GMT

@Dan_the_Van The devices list in the advanced settings only seem to include the total data transferred since the last router reboot. It shows that all my main devices have uploaded and downloaded significant amounts of data (but not larger than I would expect) since then. What I'd really like to see is the current instantaneous (ish) data rates rather than the total data transfer since the last router reboot.

I've attached the technical log. Thanks in advance for any insights you can provide.

Re: Terrible ping times (>2000ms)

Anonymous — Wed, 14 Feb 2024 15:43:17 GMT

@dsberry my first impression is that your upload "Data rate" has been "banded" but otherwise doesn't look too bad (for a long line).

Before attempting to get the "banding" removed, I'd like to see whether your line can perform any better when just your router is plugged into your FTTC line WITHOUT the BT faceplate and without the telephone attached.

Do you have a dangly DSL filter that can be used to convert you router's RJ11 DSL cable to fit into a BT431A phone socket ?

something like this -

if so can you follow the instructions in this video - YouTube : How to Connect into the Master Test Socket

Once you have your dangly DSL filter plugged into the hidden TEST socket, and your router plugged into the filter

can you capture a screenshot of you router's DSL "Technical log" (as done previously), so we can see if it's "Maximum Data Rate" improves, or the "Noise Margin" goes down.

Re: Terrible ping times (>2000ms)

dsberry — Wed, 14 Feb 2024 15:58:21 GMT

@Anonymous I used to have loads of those filters, but I got rid of them all in a recent clear out 😞 Would simply disconnecting the phone line be of any use?

Re: Terrible ping times (>2000ms)

Anonymous — Wed, 14 Feb 2024 16:13:44 GMT

It's worth a try.

While you're swapping around with the phone, you could also perform a Quiet Line Test, to check whether you can hear any noises on the phone line - such as hum, crackles, hissing, buzzing, etc.

See this video if you need guidance - YouTube : How to Perform a Quiet Line Test

Initially do the test with the phone plugged into the BT faceplate, if it's silent then that's good, otherwise if there is ANY noise then try performing the test again in the hidden TEST socket as shown in the video.

Re: Terrible ping times (>2000ms)

dsberry — Wed, 14 Feb 2024 16:53:30 GMT

The quiet line test - both with the faceplate in place and using the internal test socket - just gives a small amount of white noise, as I'd expect from any audio device. Below is the technical log I see with the phone disconnected.

Re: Terrible ping times (>2000ms)

dsberry — Wed, 14 Feb 2024 16:54:39 GMT

@Anonymous Sorry, I forgot to use your personal tag in the previous message.

Re: Terrible ping times (>2000ms)

Anonymous — Wed, 14 Feb 2024 16:57:42 GMT

You also forgot to hide your "Broadband username" on the screenshot.

You should be able to edit that out and re-post it within the first 15 minutes, before the forum software locks you out

Re: Terrible ping times (>2000ms)

Anonymous — Wed, 14 Feb 2024 17:16:22 GMT

@dsberry

As your phone doesn't appear to be part of the problem,

I would recommend your next step would be to run the Plusnet "Troubleshoot by text" as shown below.

Running that will test your line for various issues, and hopefully rule out any problems with your BT copper pair.

If a fault is detected then an engineer visit should resolve whatever is wrong.

If the tests come back clear, follow the text instructions to talk to tech support, and explain what checks you've done today, and say that you believe that your upstream data rate has been "banded", and therefore could they check for that for you, and ask for them perform a "DLM reset" in an attempt to clear it.

Re: Terrible ping times (>2000ms)

dsberry — Wed, 14 Feb 2024 17:24:37 GMT

@Anonymous Thanks for your help.

Re: Terrible ping times (>2000ms)

Anonymous — Wed, 14 Feb 2024 17:40:01 GMT

@dsberry no problem, you're welcome !