topic Re: Download (effectively) stops during Upload… in Broadband

Download (effectively) stops during Upload…

CaseSensitive — Mon, 18 Dec 2023 12:16:49 GMT

Hi.

I have recently started publishing to YouTube.
Upload is slow (I kinda expected that) but when I upload, download grinds almost to a halt.

Viewing web pages, YouTube, Amazon Music is verrry slow until I stop Uploading.

Even the Internet connection symbol on the TV (ethernet direct to PlusNet router) shows ‘No Internet’.

Why?

Re: Download (effectively) stops during Upload…

jab1 — Mon, 18 Dec 2023 12:21:10 GMT

What product (ADSL/FTTC) are you on, and what are your 'normal' speeds?

Re: Download (effectively) stops during Upload…

CaseSensitive — Mon, 18 Dec 2023 12:27:37 GMT

Hi.
Not fibre. ‘Bog standard, ‘living in rural mid-wales, broadband. Don’t know what normal speed is. Can stream movies ok though.
Many years ago I used to publish to YouTube and I don’t remember Uploading stopping Downloading… Also years in Computer Support tells me this shouldn’t happen (?).

Re: Download (effectively) stops during Upload…

Dan_the_Van — Mon, 18 Dec 2023 12:38:02 GMT

Visibility of your current sync speeds would be helpful, also which Hub are you using?

I suggest looking at https://www.waveform.com/tools/bufferbloat

HTH

Re: Download (effectively) stops during Upload…

jab1 — Mon, 18 Dec 2023 12:38:02 GMT

OK - What router do you have, and what is the result of https://speedtest.btwholesale.com/ , please? - preferably as a screenshot.

Re: Download (effectively) stops during Upload…

RobPN — Mon, 18 Dec 2023 13:01:28 GMT

@CaseSensitive

It seems you're saturating your upload bandwidth thereby blocking ACK packets being sent, which in turn requires your download packets to need retransmission.

You need to limit your YouTube upload speed to below the maximum available to reserve some upload bandwidth for those ACK packets.

Edit: typo

Re: Download (effectively) stops during Upload…

CaseSensitive — Mon, 18 Dec 2023 15:38:51 GMT

PlusNet Hub Two. Firmware - v0.10.00.04201-PN

Re: Download (effectively) stops during Upload…

jab1 — Mon, 18 Dec 2023 15:40:11 GMT

And the speed test?

Re: Download (effectively) stops during Upload…

CaseSensitive — Mon, 18 Dec 2023 15:40:38 GMT

Re: Download (effectively) stops during Upload…

jab1 — Mon, 18 Dec 2023 15:46:10 GMT

Thanks. You are obviously on ADSL with those speeds, but on a fairly short line. I suspect, but don't know for 100% certainty, that the comments of others referring to saturation are correct.

I will leave it to others to suggest options.

Re: Download (effectively) stops during Upload…

CaseSensitive — Mon, 18 Dec 2023 15:53:15 GMT

Do you need to know equipment?
MacBook Air connected directly by ethernet to PlusNet Hub.

TV connected directly by ethernet to PlusNet Hub.

10/100 Switch connected directly by ethernet to PlusNet Hub.

Sky Q, Apple TV, Philips Lighting? Hub connected to 10/100 Switch.

4 iPhone/iPad using WiFi.

Re: Download (effectively) stops during Upload…

CaseSensitive — Mon, 18 Dec 2023 16:00:58 GMT

Thanks. Never heard of ‘saturation’. Hope there is a solution 🤞

Re: Download (effectively) stops during Upload…

jab1 — Mon, 18 Dec 2023 16:01:35 GMT

As I said, I'll leave it to those with greater knowledge/experience than me, but that amount of tech will probably also be slowing things down - you can only use the bandwidth once.

Re: Download (effectively) stops during Upload…

Dan_the_Van — Mon, 18 Dec 2023 16:10:05 GMT

@CaseSensitive

Are you aware which product you are on; Unlimited Broadband (ADSL) or Unlimited Fibre (VDSL/FTTC). Do you know your contracted speeds?

If you not sure about the product the Hub's Status page will tell you, look at Connection type: Fibre Broadband (VDSL) or something else?

Can you also post Advanced Settings > Technical log >Information, this will detail your connection status. Make sure you obscure your broadband user name

Re: Download (effectively) stops during Upload…

MisterW — Mon, 18 Dec 2023 16:07:23 GMT

@CaseSensitive I'm afraid its simple. as @RobPN said you are saturating the upstream bandwidth with uploading to Youtube.

When you download information, the TCP/IP protocol needs to acknowledge the receipt of the data correctly by sending an ACK packet. When you are also uploading large (compared to your upstream bandwidth) amounts , these ACK packets must fight for transmission time with the uploaded data. If the router doesnt have any QoS prioritorisation for these ACK packets (and most ISP provided routers dont!) then they will get delayed. This, as @RobPN says causes downloaded data to be re-transmitted.

In the absence of any QoS settings you need to stop Youtube saturating the upstream by limiting it to less than your upstream speed

Re: Download (effectively) stops during Upload…

Dan_the_Van — Mon, 18 Dec 2023 16:33:34 GMT

@MisterW

although not disagreeing with your last post, shouldn't it be established if the connection is actually ADSL, as a speed test looking like ADSL results and the expression of 'Bob Standard' broadband does not necessarily mean it is ADSL. Hence my request of the connection type.

If it is actually ADSL the your explanation is perfect for this scenario.

Re: Download (effectively) stops during Upload…

MisterW — Mon, 18 Dec 2023 16:39:49 GMT

@Dan_the_Van yes agreed, ideally it would be useful to confirm its ADSL and not very badly performing VDSL.

Re: Download (effectively) stops during Upload…

bmc — Mon, 18 Dec 2023 16:42:20 GMT

@CaseSensitive

Have you checked recently as to wjat's available at your address. If you use the following and post a screenshot after hiding your details it might help.

https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/#/ADSL

Brian

Re: Download (effectively) stops during Upload…

CaseSensitive — Mon, 18 Dec 2023 17:17:03 GMT

Connection Type - Broadband (DSL)

Re: Download (effectively) stops during Upload…

CaseSensitive — Fri, 22 Dec 2023 14:12:43 GMT

Hi. Thanks. We have concerned about moving to Fibre and loosing out Land Line. We have lots of power cuts -

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