topic Re: Speed Keeps Dropping - Massively in Broadband

Speed Keeps Dropping - Massively

NicDB — Tue, 30 May 2023 19:59:59 GMT

Getting fed up with our BB speed dropping massively.

On an Unlimited Fibre Extra package with estimated speeds of 50-55Mbps.

Over the last few weeks the speed drops and I notice things going slow so I do a Speed Test (various) and notice the speeds going as low as 11Mbps and today a woeful 0.59Mbps!! I then report it via the PN Bot by texting HELP. They always report no fault on the line, then it mysteriously goes back up to speed again. It seems they throttle the speeds massively and hope people don't notice then put it back up again when they complain. I often have to restart the Router to get the speeds back.

Streaming music and it just stops playing. Films and Netflix buffer (yes, both on wired connections to the router to avoid this very issue)

WFH when the speed is low is painful on remote desktop apps.

This is not good enough. It's shoddy service and I want to leave except I have more than 12 months left on the contract.

If you can explain why this is so then I might just stay.

I just want a strong and stable connection.

Re: Speed Keeps Dropping - Massively

Townman — Wed, 31 May 2023 10:53:01 GMT

Speed issues are virtually NEVER down to the ISP. The connection speed is governed by the equipment between your home and the exchange which all belongs to BT Openreach ... regardless of which ISP you pay your bill to. Think of it like your gas services - the pipes do not belong to the company you pay for the gas.

Variable speed is indicative of a copper circuit fault.

Broadband is not going to work well if the "phone" line is not working properly.

Please perform a quiet line test - dial 17070 select option 2 using a phone plugged into the test socket behind the face plate of the master socket (ideally this should be a corded phone). The line should be silent. A noisy phone line (or no dial tone) will have a marked adverse impact on the performance of broadband.

If the line is noisy or there is no dial tone, then a PHONE LINE fault needs to be raised with your phone provider. If this is PlusNet, you can report a fault on line using the button below. NB: You need to put your LANDLINE NUMBER after "PHONE" [missing instruction].

Phone Faults

Re: Speed Keeps Dropping - Massively

NicDB — Wed, 31 May 2023 12:11:22 GMT

Nah, sorry I don't buy this.

If it was a physical connection/copper issue (which I know it isn't as I've had OpenReach engineers out to check the cable from the pole to the house and the internal wiring to the master socket and beyond. Twice!), then why would the speed magically go back up again after I've texted HELP to the Plusnet bot?

I believe the ISP are throttling the speeds.

I, like most people do not have a plug-in wired handset to test the line. And as I've said OR have tested it twice and it's fine. Last time was Oct 2022.

Re: Speed Keeps Dropping - Massively

RichardB — Wed, 31 May 2023 13:09:36 GMT

If the PN help bot rings the phine number, the speed could go back up if the line has a intermittant bad joint.
The 50v AC ring signal is good at temporaily clearing a bad joint.
A few proactive steps to diagnosing the problem are:
As Townman says use a phone handset to see if there is any noise.
Check the routers reported connection speed when speeds are good and bad. Then compare.
Check the routers log and post the log here.
Regards
Richard

Re: Speed Keeps Dropping - Massively

Baldrick1 — Wed, 31 May 2023 14:06:09 GMT

@NicDB wrote:

I, like most people do not have a plug-in wired handset to test the line.

I suspect that this is a generation thing. I don't know anyone without one of one sort or another, be it unplugged and kept in a cupboard or in constant use. Anyway, they are an essential diagnostic tool if you want to help get an early diagnosis of your problem, can be useful if your mobile signal goes off and aren't expensive https://www.argos.co.uk/product/3924358?clickPR=plp:4:9

Re: Speed Keeps Dropping - Massively

Townman — Wed, 31 May 2023 15:10:58 GMT

@NicDB

For the avoidance of doubt I will repeat myself just once - the ISP DOES NOT manage the line speed of the provisioned product. That is done entirely by BT Openreach's equipment, which seeks to balance the speed and stability trade off. There are numerous things to do with the physics of the circuit, some of which are variable ... and might not be exhibiting a fault when inspected by a BT engineer.

If you want to believe something different, then that is your prerogative, but that will not make it true. Also there is no virtue in being like other people, when that presents a barrier to investigating the problem AT THE TIME IT OCCURS.

Re: Speed Keeps Dropping - Massively

aesmith — Wed, 31 May 2023 20:36:04 GMT

@Townman wrote:

Speed issues are virtually NEVER down to the ISP.

While that's true, or true-ish, there are huge differences between ISPs in terms of their will to chase OR and get faults resolved. Unfortunately Plusnet are particularly bad in that respect,all too often writing off a fault as REIN even though the correct prior checks haven't been carried out. Resorting to raising noise margin targets instead of making OR track down and fix a noisy line fault.

This was why I ditched them for Andrews and Arnold within nine months. The difference was night and day. AA were even able to completely disable DLM to keep the line up to speed in spite of a high error rate, and their efforts got OR to fix the line to the extend of knocking 2dB off the attenuation, and increasing synch speed by from just over 3.5 meg to 4.7. In contrast Plusnet kept claiming anything above 1meg was in line with "the estimate".

Re: Speed Keeps Dropping - Massively

Townman — Sat, 03 Jun 2023 19:14:39 GMT

@aesmith

I guess there will be variable experiences. I had Plusnet "hammer" BTOR engineers for 6+ months - 18 engineering visits addressing REIN and a problematic line containing aluminium. Was not fixed until a delightful lady engineer crawled through the line with a "fine tooth comb" looking for an fixing all of the bad joints / pairs. Got the typical speed on that lifted from 2.1mbps to 5.5mbps.

Re: Speed Keeps Dropping - Massively

NicDB — Sun, 04 Jun 2023 18:56:12 GMT

Aaaaaaaand....it's back down to 14Mbps!

[-Censored-]! Plusnet are really getting my goat!

Re: Speed Keeps Dropping - Massively

Mustrum — Sun, 04 Jun 2023 19:22:21 GMT

If only you had a phone to test the line with!

Had you reported a fault?

Re: Speed Keeps Dropping - Massively

NicDB — Sun, 04 Jun 2023 19:24:26 GMT

Why should I have to buy extra equipment to check the service that isn't being supplied to me as per the agreement?

Ludicrous!

Re: Speed Keeps Dropping - Massively

jab1 — Sun, 04 Jun 2023 19:35:43 GMT

No need to buy extra equipment - just respond - politely - to this, and maybe other Community members can help.

For Community members to be able to help, information from these two sites, as screenshots, posted as pictures within the topic, not as attachments:-

BT Broadband(obscuring your phone number) and BTW Performance Tester - Over a wired (Ethernet) connection if at all possible, please report the 'ADDITIONAL DIAGNOSTICS', and sight of the broadband connection status from your Hub (with the 'Username' obscured) would be a good starting point.

For the Hub One -

Navigate from the Home Screen to Troubleshooting > Helpdesk

For the Hub Two -

Navigate from the Home Screen to Advanced Settings > Technical Log > Information

It may also be a good idea to report the results of a Quiet Line Test - dial 17070 option 2 from a (preferably corded) phone. After the confirmation of your phone number, there should be total silence apart from the regular 'Quiet Line Test' announcement. Any other noise - report a PHONE fault first.

If you are unsure about any of the above, please just ask - I am happy to help.

Re: Speed Keeps Dropping - Massively

NicDB — Sun, 04 Jun 2023 19:46:52 GMT

Thanks Jab1.

Screenshots attached as requested. The BTW Performance tester won't complete the additional diagnostics despite trying 3 different browsers.

As I've said previously we have had an OR engineer onsite last year who checked all the wiring, replaced a master socket, rewired an extension and gave the whole thing a clean bill of health. There are no issues internally. The Plusnet bot keeps saying the line is fine and sends me a list of things to do which we have done umpteen times. It's just really frustrating and pretty poor serive.

Re: Speed Keeps Dropping - Massively

Townman — Sun, 04 Jun 2023 20:06:40 GMT

@NicDB wrote:

Why should I have to buy extra equipment to check the service that isn't being supplied to me as per the agreement?

Ludicrous!

Maybe because you might want to check out the line AT THE TIME you see issues. INTERMITTENT problems are invariably...

Rectified the the act of a remote line test (for a short while)
Not present when an engineer visits

Being able to report a VOICE fault as an INTERMITTANTLY NOISY LINE engages different engineers with a different brief which might bring about a quicker resolution. Whilst REMOTE line tests do not detect an issue, you are unlikely to get any engineer out to look at the problem.

The choices are yours - you are free to do what you want, but not following the excellent advice offered here might well delay delivering the improvement you demand. What IS really frustrating is your refusal to engage nicely with the help being offered here - be part of the solution rather than ...

PS: Those router stats indicate that the line is being managed aggressively by BT's equipment (nothing to do with Plusnet) to maintain a stable connection ... I wonder why ... might there be noise on the line? Guess we will never know!

Re: Speed Keeps Dropping - Massively

jab1 — Sun, 04 Jun 2023 19:55:58 GMT

@NicDB The Help Desk shot is extremely informative - you have a ridiculous D/s noise margin, and I suspect, a major error in the BT/OR network - your uptime suggests you are suffering from repeated xDSL disconnections.

To confirm my suspicions, can you post the output from the WAN tab of your Hubs Event Log, please? Once you have done that, I will confirm for you that you have an issue which requires serious investigation by OpenReach.

Re: Speed Keeps Dropping - Massively

Mustrum — Sun, 04 Jun 2023 20:02:47 GMT

@NicDB a simple phone would help you help diagnose the problem quicker and get your speeds back quicker - a cheap one can be got for under £10.

The BTW check shows you had higher speeds a couple of days ago compared to your router stats now. This suggests PN may have reset your DLM, but that noise on the line is reducing your speeds again.

Whilst it is great that OR have been out last year, alas it does not stop faults developing especially on lines that may have been around for 50 or more years.

PN will have no idea, nor will any other ISP, know your speeds have dropped until you report a fault, so no point cursing them.

Re: Speed Keeps Dropping - Massively

NicDB — Sun, 04 Jun 2023 20:15:31 GMT

Hi. There seems to be an issue copying and pasting the WAN log. I've posted it twice and twice the post has disappeared. I'm doing it as screen shots now instead.

Re: Speed Keeps Dropping - Massively

NicDB — Sun, 04 Jun 2023 20:18:54 GMT

OK, just ordered a corded phone to test the line. Will have it in a few days.

Re: Speed Keeps Dropping - Massively

Townman — Sun, 04 Jun 2023 20:22:39 GMT

Not sure what @jab1 was hoping to see here - all that it confirms is that the line is not sustaining a stable connection. 37 hours for the last one.

What is a tad odd is the significant variation of download speed for a very similar SNRM. We can readily see what is happening or guess what is happening ... what needs to be done is to look towards (or listen to) what might be causing the issues.

If the broadband fault bot is not detecting an error, then try the phone fault bot ... or pick up the phone and speak to support during office hours.

Re: Speed Keeps Dropping - Massively

jab1 — Sun, 04 Jun 2023 20:22:43 GMT

Yep, you are having repeated xDSL drops - although the 'user request' comment is a bit strange to me - maybe someone else may care to enlighten me?

My suggestion is to call and report the issue, rather than relying on the BOT, and reference this topic - IF the agent can access it.