topic Re: Internet keeps dropping on a daily basis in Broadband

Internet keeps dropping on a daily basis

badkarma — Thu, 20 Jan 2022 19:34:26 GMT

Hi all,

I have ADSL internet (through a telephone socket) as there is no fibre in my area at the moment.

Typical speed is around 8mb to 11mb download with about half a meg upload.

I ran for two years with SSE internet through the same telephone socket, with a telephone filter and a Technicolor TG589vac router. This service ran perfectly without any real outage in the two years I was with them.

However once SSE upped their prices and would not reduce to acceptable price, I voted with my feet and signed up to PlusNet.

Since the changeover to PlusNet service last November, the internet keeps dropping out at least a couple of times a day (probably more) and it is quite annoying, especially as I work for the NHS and am pretty much constantly online working during the day.

When I changed internet providers in November, I removed my SSE Technicolor router and filter cable and installed the Plusnet router and filter cable that got delivered to me. Since then the internet keeps dropping as the red light indicates on the router so I definitely know its a line issue to plusnet and not the router(s) and filter(s).

So, in late December, I unplugged the plusnet router and filter and reinstalled my Techncolor router (and configured it with plusnet's config).

It connected to the internet OK, but the Technicolor router also gets disconnected periodically so I know it is not a dodgy router or cable as I have tried both alternatives.

I think it is something to do with the plusnet side as nothing else has changed from my phone socket to the outside world since leaving SSE.

When the internet drops, it drops out for a couple of minutes then comes back for a while (perhaps running for a few hours if I am lucky) before dropping again.

I use wired ethernet at home so can discount anyone saying anything about WiFi signal (although I can ping my router internally when the internet drops so I know there is no problem with wired or wireless connection in the house to the router. The problem is definitely the internet line dropping.

Plusnet support direct seems like a nightmare to figure out how to report the problem to officially so I thought I would try here. Does anyone have any ideas or is there a plusnet support person lurking on the forum that can pick up this issue and test for me please?

I'm an IT professional by trade so I know the ins and outs of router config and testing to find root cause of IT issues so I can guarantee everything inside the house is A-OK and it is the external incoming line that is dropping.

Here's some info from my router:

(G.992.5_Annex_A; downstream: 12375 kbit/s, upstream: 1173 kbit/s; output Power Down: 12.8 dBm, Up: 19.2 dBm; line Attenuation Down: 37.0 dB, Up: 20.0 dB; snr Margin Down: 3.1 dB, Up: 6.6 dB)

I can also list a lot more from my logfile such as UP, DOWN, In your ladies chamber etc) or attach if needed.

Please can a plusnet support rep or someone help. Thank you.

Re: Internet keeps dropping on a daily basis

jab1 — Thu, 20 Jan 2022 20:00:25 GMT

Welcome to the forums, @badkarma . I can see nothing much in the brief details you have posted about your connection, except that your D/S SNR looks a little low for the attenuation.

A full screenshot of the page you extracted that data from - redacting any personal detail, and the logfile, may point someone in the right direction.

Re: Internet keeps dropping on a daily basis

badkarma — Thu, 20 Jan 2022 20:32:18 GMT

Thank you @jab1

Attached are a screenshot of the log management dialog of my router where I eported the log from and the actual log itself.

Many thanks.

Re: Internet keeps dropping on a daily basis

jab1 — Thu, 20 Jan 2022 20:44:08 GMT

@badkarma Unfortunately, that information is, shall we say, not particularly useful - to me - as I have no experience of your device, but I suspect the modem/router may not be configured correctly.

Is it possible to replace the Technicolor with the PN supplied hub (which one?) and post the details from there?

Also, can you run a Quiet Line Test on your phone, just in case there is any noises on the line which could be impacting your BB signal?

Re: Internet keeps dropping on a daily basis

badkarma — Thu, 20 Jan 2022 21:09:57 GMT

Thank you. I will set up my PN router tomorrow morning and run the days work over it then will extract its logfiles and report back either tomorrow evening or weekend.

When you say you suspect the modem/router may not be configured correctly, would this be in both cases of SSE techncolor router incl the PN router? And would this incorrect config be the result of the line dropping randomly every now and then for both routers? As the reason I switched to the Technicolor router was because I was getting same issues then as I am now.

Will check back in a day or so once I have the PN logs.

Re: Internet keeps dropping on a daily basis

jab1 — Thu, 20 Jan 2022 21:20:37 GMT

Thanks - the PN gears files are easier to understand, with less extraneous data.

Difficult to answer the config query, as I can't make much of the Technicolor reports, but the PN Hub is easier to read - again, which one?

Have you done the QLT I mentioned earlier?

Re: Internet keeps dropping on a daily basis

Gandalf — Fri, 21 Jan 2022 10:31:58 GMT

Thanks for your post @badkarma and welcome to our Community Forums.

I'm really sorry to see you're having connection issues after moving to us.

I've tested your line today and the tests aren't showing any issues, but I can see the drops and that the signal to noise ratio (SNRM) target is set at 3dB by the automated dynamic line management (DLM) software at the exchange, however the actual margin is around 4dB, which suggests there may be noise on your line.

I'd second @jab1's suggestion of carrying out a quiet line test by dialling 17070 from a home phone handset, ideally through the test socket as explained Here as that'll rule out any issues with internal wiring.

Also, the good news is I can see that fibre (FTTC, fibre to the cabinet, the cabinet being the green box in the road) is available for you at an estimated speed of between 21.9mbps to 30.9mbps. I've found out this information by typing your landline telephone number into the supplier availability checker Here.

You should be able to upgrade by going to the "Offers & Upgrades" tab in your account online, logging in from Here or by calling our Customer Options Team on 0800 013 2632 and they'll be happy to help.

For future reference, as well as posting here, you can report a problem to us by text through following the steps Here or message us on Twitter or Facebook as well as by phone us on 0800 432 0200.

Let us know how it goes.

Re: Internet keeps dropping on a daily basis

badkarma — Fri, 21 Jan 2022 15:28:40 GMT

Thank You @Gandalf and @jab1

I plugged my PN Hub in mid-morning.

I went to the charity shop at lunchtime today today and bought a cheap phone for £2 to test the line. When I tested the line (at 14:55 just after the internet dropping as mentioned below) I could hear a very feint continuous buzz / hum between the test voice prompts. A bit like when you put your ear next to an old transformer. A very quiet continuous steady hum. No crackling.

The internet dropped at 14:51 (giving me chance to do the line test) - I unplugged the routers DSL line at this point) and then once line test finished, I plugged the DSL line back into the PN hub and the internet recovered itself.

I then logged back in to the router and dumped the logfile - please see attached and check around 14:50:36

Also from my PN router:

1. Product name: Plusnet Hub
2. Serial number: +081441+NQ12366185
3. Firmware version: Software version 4.7.5.1.83.8.289.1.3 Last updated 15/11/21
4. Board version: Plusnet Hub One
5. DSL uptime: 0 days, 00:30:49
6. Data rate: 1085 / 12751
7. Maximum data rate: 1092 / 12848
8. Noise margin: 6.6 / 3.3
9. Line attenuation: 18.7 / 38.0
10. Signal attenuation: 19.3 / 37.1
11. Data sent/received: 110.8 MB / 1.1 GB
12. Broadband username: redacted
13. 2.4 GHz Wireless network/SSID: redacted
14. 2.4 GHz Wireless connections: Enabled (802.11 b/g/n (up to 300 Mb/s))
15. 2.4 GHz Wireless security: WPA2
16. 2.4 GHz Wireless channel: Automatic (Smart Wireless)
17. 5 GHz Wireless network/SSID: redacted
18. 5 GHz Wireless connections: Enabled (802.11 a/n/ac (up to 1300 Mb/s))
19. 5 GHz Wireless security: WPA2
20. 5 GHz Wireless channel: Automatic (Smart Wireless)
21. Firewall: Default
22. MAC Address: redacted
23. VPI/VCI: 0 / 38
24. Modulation: G.992.5 Annex A
25. Latency type: Interleaved
26. Software variant: AA
27. Boot loader: 1.0.0

Re: Internet keeps dropping on a daily basis

dvorak — Fri, 21 Jan 2022 16:02:28 GMT

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Re: Internet keeps dropping on a daily basis

jab1 — Fri, 21 Jan 2022 16:16:52 GMT

@badkarma Thanks for that information. Looks (to me) like there could be a BT network problem, given that you appear to have had a couple of xDSL drops since installing the Hub1, but maybe @Gandalf will be able to confirm/deny that - he has more visibility of the data.

The phone line should be silent during the QLT - so something is slightly awry there - and could be the reason for your problem, again something for the PN Help Team to investigate.

Re: Internet keeps dropping on a daily basis

Gandalf — Fri, 21 Jan 2022 16:29:11 GMT

Thanks for getting back to me @badkarma

I'd recommend keeping an eye on this over the weekend and if you're still having issues, let us know as we'd likely need to arrange an Openreach engineer visit to take a look at the phone line. Let me know how it goes.

Re: Internet keeps dropping on a daily basis

badkarma — Fri, 21 Jan 2022 16:35:30 GMT

Thank you @jab1 and @Gandalf

I think the weekend will probably see the same symptoms as it has been happening daily since changing from SSE to PlusNet in November, with me changing from the PM router to the old Technocolor SSE router in December and having same issues, so having flipped back to the PN router and still getting symptoms.

However I will keep an eye on it and report back on Monday.

Many thanks all, have a nice weekend.

Re: Internet keeps dropping on a daily basis

jab1 — Fri, 21 Jan 2022 16:41:21 GMT

@badkarma Stick to the Hub1, please, and post the same two reports on Monday. Like you, I suspect this won't go away, but as @Gandalf has his beady eye on it, hopefully we will get a speedy response should action be required.

Re: Internet keeps dropping on a daily basis

Gandalf — Fri, 21 Jan 2022 16:45:49 GMT

Thanks for getting back to me @badkarma

No problem, perhaps we should arrange an engineer now, based on the problems you're still having.

Could you reply to the ticket I've logged on your account Here with when you'll be available for a visit?

If you can post back once you've responded, I'll make sure we book the engineer as soon as we can.

Re: Internet keeps dropping on a daily basis

Townman — Sun, 23 Jan 2022 14:00:19 GMT

Some general observations here...

The technicolor routers are particularly good at hanging on to the signal on noisy lines
Whilst you do not see changing routers as being any different, they are certainly not the same and on a noisy line could well account for the different level of disconnections experienced
You do not need the internet to be down to do a quiet line test ... unless you intend to remove the faceplate to eliminate internal extension wiring ... is there any?
The line sync is excellent, so any data speed throughput concerns arise from retransmission errors ... which could well be associated with the observed noise ... beyond that there is some possibility of congestion in the exchange, none of which is in the Plusnet components of the service provision
That said, some 30 minutes after the start of a new xDSL session the SNRM figures are up 10% from what would have been their start point, potentially inferring the presence of noise on the line at the time of the resync which had decreased at the time you grabbed the stats - running router stats 24x7 might be illuminating - see the link below, the PN Hub One is a BTHH5a in different livery
SSE do not offer ADSL services currently - were you on an old ADSL service with them or on FTTC? (That technicolor router supports both ADSL and VDSL)

Re: Internet keeps dropping on a daily basis

badkarma — Mon, 24 Jan 2022 10:54:46 GMT

many thanks all.

Please see attached WAN.txt log files from Friday to this morning.

@Townman , my update to your observations:

1, 2, 4 noted.
3 no extension wiring.
5 - WAN.txt attached.
6 - definitely on copper telephone connection in the house with SSE (been with them from around Oct 2018 to Nov 2021). Not sure how that translates in the Exchange.

@Gandalf thank you I will reply to the ticket now to arrange a visit. As you can see, I've had some turbulence over the weekend and also this morning after 9am.

Many thanks all.

Re: Internet keeps dropping on a daily basis

Townman — Mon, 24 Jan 2022 13:44:04 GMT

At first I had thought that the router log was not the most useful of information to share ... however on closer inspection, I note that the SNRM at resync is all over the place, not 3dB or 6dB. It is also notable that the double sync lines, just a few seconds apart report different SNRM values for the same sync rate. That makes me wonder if REIN is an issue here. Personally, I would be setting up router stats to obtain a clearer picture of what is happening here.

ADLS and FTTC both use copper to the premises. ADSL is copper all the way from the exchange. VDSL (FTTC) is fibre to the street cabinet and then copper to the premises. That being the case, there is some possibility that you could have been on FTTC with SSE ... but as suggested, I have no idea when SSE discontinued offering ADSL - which will exclude them from some geographies.

Re: Internet keeps dropping on a daily basis

Gandalf — Mon, 24 Jan 2022 13:41:22 GMT

Thanks for getting back to us @badkarma

I can see we've booked the engineer visit and updated the ticket 221339998 with the appointment details.

Let us know how it goes.

Re: Internet keeps dropping on a daily basis

badkarma — Wed, 26 Jan 2022 20:34:18 GMT

Hello all. I come with an update.

The Openreach engineer came today, very nice chap, very professional and replaced my old phone socket for a new shiny one that had two connections where both the phone line and cable from router plug directly into it, and not needing the filter box which is now spare not connected.

He arrived at 2pmish left about 3pmish but as you can see from this evenings logs, my internet is still having issues unfortunately.

@Townman thank you for your comment of: "I note that the SNRM at resync is all over the place, not 3dB or 6dB. It is also notable that the double sync lines, just a few seconds apart report different SNRM values for the same sync rate. That makes me wonder if REIN is an issue here." - @Gandalf do you want me to add this thought to the ticket? I have already updated the support ticket with the attached and some info.

I have highlighted the continued disconnections in red bold to make easy reading.

The issue seems to be getting worse day by day. Today has been a bit of a nightmare trying to get any work done and eventually had to tether my mobile phone 4G to get my work done.

@Townman I mentioned to the engineer today your thoughts on REIN.

Also I have done a quiet test today on the line and still the save very quiet electrical buzz / hum.

Grateful for any more thoughts received.

Thank you.

Re: Internet keeps dropping on a daily basis

jab1 — Wed, 26 Jan 2022 20:49:02 GMT

@badkarma Nice as that OR may have been, he hasn't resolved the problem, as your WAN log shows. I still suspect an issue outside your premises (between you and the exchange), or possibly in the exchange itself - those logs look very much like some I had some years ago, where the issue was traced - eventually - by an SFI to a faulty frame at the local exchange. This may not be your issue of course, but it might be an idea for the next engineer to check the connection back to the exchange.