topic Re: Connecting modem to a non-master socket in Broadband

Connecting modem to a non-master socket

molszewski — Sat, 20 Jun 2020 17:16:39 GMT

Currently I have my openreach modem and plusnet router connected to a NTE5c master socket. I would like to move the modem and router to a different room. All the rooms in the house have phone sockets that presumably are extensions from the master socket. There is a wire coming from outside into the socket and another leaving it so I presume this runs to the other rooms. Can I just plug the modem and router directly into one of the standard sockets in the other room or will I have to install another master socket in the room that I want to move it to? There is a landline phone plugged in t one of these sockets in the kitchen and it does not use any filter.

Re: Connecting modem to a non-master socket

MMG — Sat, 20 Jun 2020 17:40:21 GMT

Yes you can plug the router into a phone extension, however you will be better to get a filter.
Something to note, is that the longer the router is (by the cable run) there is a chance your speed may drop a little (depending on the quality of the cable and how many extensions are between the extension socket and the master socket.

Just try it and see, then run a speed test to see if there is much difference.

You can also only have 1 router connected at the 1 time. You can use WiFi repeaters tho.

I hope this helps.

Re: Connecting modem to a non-master socket

jab1 — Sat, 20 Jun 2020 17:52:09 GMT

@MMG Good advice there, but one point. If all the other sockets have been correctly wired into the 5c, adding another filter is unnecessary and not recommended as they are 'filtered' by the master socket, unlike previous versions.

Re: Connecting modem to a non-master socket

MMG — Sat, 20 Jun 2020 18:03:32 GMT

@jab1 I always thought that the extension port of the master socket took the feed prior to the socket being filtered, thus allowing voice and data to be sent to the extension socket.

But I could be wrong, things are always changing 😁

Re: Connecting modem to a non-master socket

jab1 — Sat, 20 Jun 2020 18:25:52 GMT

@MMG I too could be wrong, but my understanding is that correctly wired extensions do not need extra filters. I'll do a bit of digging later tonight/early tomorrow just to see.

Re: Connecting modem to a non-master socket

MisterW — Sat, 20 Jun 2020 18:45:28 GMT

It all depends on whether the NTE5C has a filtered faceplate fitted or not. The basic NTE5C is just a master socket but it's usually fitted with a MK4 vdsl faceplate. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/helpandsupport/how-toguides/howtoguides/downloads/NTE5C_Instructions_CP.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiAyPOThZHqAhXbSBUIHfb0A08QFjAJegQICBAB&usg=AOvVaw3TtgTeVNlXrOtVpgzDDt8j&cshid=1592678390249 . If the faceplate is present, indicated by separate dsl and phone sockets, then the extensions will almost certainly be filtered. That tends to be confirmed by the OP saying the phone at the extension does not use a filter.

Re: Connecting modem to a non-master socket

jab1 — Sat, 20 Jun 2020 18:48:32 GMT

@MisterW Thanks - just saved me opening that search engine to confirm what I had thought.👍

Re: Connecting modem to a non-master socket

MMG — Sat, 20 Jun 2020 18:51:44 GMT

Ok, I just thought that it was seperate. So there is a possible chance that the connection may be slower than he is currently getting.

I suppose a picture would be good so we can see what his currently installed as the master socket. I suspect if it is ASDL then its possibly a older master socket which doesnt filter.

Just my 2 penny worth lol

Re: Connecting modem to a non-master socket

jab1 — Sat, 20 Jun 2020 18:58:24 GMT

@MMG I totally agree - a picture paints a thousand words, as they say - although I'm still on ADSL, but have an NTE5C with filtered faceplate.

Re: Connecting modem to a non-master socket

MMG — Sat, 20 Jun 2020 19:05:38 GMT

Then I "think" that as the faceplate is filtered and the faceplate is plugged into the "test" socket, then the extension will be unfiltered.
A quick Google on the socket shows the attached, with the extension plugged into the 2 connectors on the left.

https://images.app.goo.gl/cNgsWmJL6PGLkjhC7

Re: Connecting modem to a non-master socket

MisterW — Sat, 20 Jun 2020 19:56:21 GMT

It doesnt work the way you think. Although the extension terminals are on the back plate, they are not connected via the back plate. The connection to them is made via the faceplate when you clip it on. So if you have a filtered faceplate, the connection to the extension terminals is from the filtered output of the faceplate

Re: Connecting modem to a non-master socket

198kHz — Sat, 20 Jun 2020 22:40:16 GMT

It would appear, then, that the OP has a Mk4 filtered faceplate, so the extension(s) will be filtered and therefore not usable for the router.

But, the Mk4 also has an unfiltered outlet, marked A & B, from which an additional extension can be cabled to feed the router.

EDIT: Memory's not so good these days. It may be that the 5C master has the A&B rather than the faceplate. Anyway - one of them definitely does. 🙂

Re: Connecting modem to a non-master socket

molszewski — Sat, 20 Jun 2020 23:02:56 GMT

Thanks for all the advice. The master socket is made of the back plate that screws onto the wall and the front plate that clips into into it. Both have some electronics in them. As the extension cable comes out of the back plate the question is is has it already gone throught the filter or is the front plate the filter. If the extension is unfiltered then can i install the same master socket in the other room and there won't be any conflict with the first master socket? U guess one way to find out is to try plugging the router into another socket and see what happens. It's not the easiest thing to do with my setup but I can try it.

Re: Connecting modem to a non-master socket

MisterW — Sun, 21 Jun 2020 09:11:21 GMT

@molszewski

As the extension cable comes out of the back plate the question is is has it already gone throught the filter or is the front plate the filter.

As I said above, it depends on what faceplate you have ?

Is it a Mk4 with 2 sockets, one for the modem and one for the phone OR is it a single socket and you plug the modem in using a dsl filter ?

If it's a Mk4 with 2 sockets, then your extension wiring will be filtered even though it is connected to the backplate. With the NTE5C , the connection to the extension wiring on the backplate is only made THROUGH the faceplate when it's inserted, even though it appears permanently connected to the backplate.

Re: Connecting modem to a non-master socket

pvmb — Sun, 21 Jun 2020 17:50:27 GMT

...I agree with MisterW.

Plus, if you have a NTE5C master socket with a 'standard' faceplate (just one socket) - not the ADSL faceplate with phone and router sockets - it does not, AFAIK, have any electronics in the faceplate; unlike the older NTE5a.

Re: Connecting modem to a non-master socket

molszewski — Sun, 21 Jun 2020 20:03:58 GMT

Here are pictures of the socket and the insides. The faceplate also has some electronics but no wires go from the faceplate to the extension. There is an option to attach some wires to the faceplate.

Re: Connecting modem to a non-master socket

MisterW — Mon, 22 Jun 2020 05:13:15 GMT

@molszewski thanks for the pictures , it's all clear now.

You have a filtered faceplate. The extension(s) wiring is correctly wired to the back plate. Your extension sockets WILL be filtered and therefore you are not able to use them to connect the modem.

To be able to use one to connect the modem, you would need to detach the extension wiring from the back plate, and attach it to the unfiltered output on the faceplate. You would then need to use a normal dangly style filter at each extension socket in use. Moving the modem to an extension in this way MAY result in a loss of speed, depending on the length and quality of the extension cabling.

Re: Connecting modem to a non-master socket

molszewski — Mon, 22 Jun 2020 09:46:18 GMT

Thanks for your answer. I just realised I posted in ADSL forum and not the Fibre broadband forum. Would your advice be the same for Fibre broadband? Is it the regular microfilter that I would need like in the old days? So if the extension cable is going to be unfiltered then I would presumably also need a microfilter for the landline telephone in the kitchen?

While researching this topic I came across a picture of the same master socket where the blue telephone cables are wired exactly the same as my current configuration but there were orange wires coming out from the face plate and going into the extension cable. It said they were for broadband. Does that mean that a modem can be connected to the orange wires at the other end while the telephone line stays filtered?

Re: Connecting modem to a non-master socket

MisterW — Mon, 22 Jun 2020 10:18:42 GMT

@molszewski wrote:

Is it the regular microfilter that I would need like in the old days? So if the extension cable is going to be unfiltered then I would presumably also need a microfilter for the landline telephone in the kitchen?

Yes and yes.

While researching this topic I came across a picture of the same master socket where the blue telephone cables are wired exactly the same as my current configuration but there were orange wires coming out from the face plate and going into the extension cable. It said they were for broadband. Does that mean that a modem can be connected to the orange wires at the other end while the telephone line stays filtered?

What they've probably done there, is wire an additional unfiltered socket to the faceplate using the spare orange/white pair. The additional socket would need to be close to the existing extension socket as its using a spare pair of an existing cable going to that socket. Interesting approach though, means that existing sockets remain filtered whereas the additional socket could be used to connect a modem