topic Re: installing a long cable from master socket to modem in Broadband

installing a long cable from master socket to modem

danielhand — Fri, 06 Jun 2014 13:30:37 GMT

I have recently been upgraded to fibre but I was unfortunate enough to not have a BT engineer install my modem or master socket (BT engineer came on wrong day so I was at work, new master socket and modem posted through letterbox).
The master socket is in a right awkward position in the hallway so ideally, I would like to move this into the living room where the rest of my computer equipment about 10 metres (this much if I were to tac it to the wall) about 5 metres if laid flat on the floor. This being the case, I have gone to staples and bought a 10 metre Belkin RJ11 cable. It's fat just like an ethernet and says its "Double Shielded", not the flat thin normal RJ11 you get with the modem.
Am I likely to notice a difference in the speed or dropouts etc with a cable run of that length? There are no electrical cables running parallel with it, its literally down at the skirting board and then over a door frame (ideally, I'd like this to go under the carpet).
Before I open the box which would possibly make the cable un-returnable I'd like to get some thoughts of people in the know. I can imagine a loss, if any, would be negligible but still nice to know.
I must stress that had a BT engineer installed this, I would have got him to do the hard work but unfortunately, I have had to do everything including changing the master socket myself.

Re: installing a long cable from master socket to modem

MisterW — Fri, 06 Jun 2014 13:40:08 GMT

Depending on the quality of the cable you may see a drop in speed. It's really not ideal to extend the VDSL(RJ11) signal path.
The better way, if possible, is to leave the modem close to the master socket and then connect it to the remote router using a standard CAT6(or CAT5e) Ethernet cable.
That way you wont lose any speed at all. Very likely the Cat6 cable is cheaper than the 'double shielded' RJ11 cable

Re: installing a long cable from master socket to modem

shure — Fri, 06 Jun 2014 13:44:25 GMT

I'm pretty sure the Master Socket belongs to BTOR and you're not actually allowed to move it - someone correct me if I'm wrong.
But there's nothing to stop you fitting an extension using twisted pair CW1308 cable like I did after advice from people on this very Forum. You won't get any degradation with that professional-grade cable for a good 200m so unless your living room's enormous you should be fine
edit: should add that mine was for ADSL so not sure if you need different cable for Fibre?

Re: installing a long cable from master socket to modem

danielhand — Fri, 06 Jun 2014 13:53:20 GMT

Unfortunately there isn't a power port anywhere near the master socket (who designed these flats?!) so I am currently using a 10 meter power extension lead through into the hall way. Funnily enough from the same power socket I would like the modem to be plugged into
I have not moved the master socket, simply replaced a jurassic master socket (BT logo still had the lady with the bugle)
My current plan of using an RJ11 is the most ideal for me, just not the best way to do it.

Re: installing a long cable from master socket to modem

shure — Fri, 06 Jun 2014 14:14:45 GMT

RJ11 just describes the connectors, not the cable. You need to make sure it's at least twisted pair. Based on my own experience I'd get CW1308 (99p a metre at Maplin, so won't break the bank) cable without ends, cut to length, and buy a telephone extension socket which you wire it up to. You can then site this wherever you want.

Re: installing a long cable from master socket to modem

MisterW — Fri, 06 Jun 2014 14:22:35 GMT

Quote
Unfortunately there isn't a power port anywhere near the master socket (who designed these flats?!) so I am currently using a 10 meter power extension lead through into the hall way. Funnily enough from the same power socket I would like the modem to be plugged into

I guessed that might be the case. My master socket has no power nearby either, but I'm still on ADSL so an extension isn't as critical. I have what shure suggests, a wired extension to a more convenient socket.
The cable you have, sounds like it MIGHT be CAT5 twisted pair so it MAY be ok. Otherwise do as shure suggests, make sure you have CW1308 or CAT5 and wire an extension.
edit: do you have a proper FTTC faceplate, in which case take care where any extension is connected at the faceplate, as the normal extension connector is FILTERED and thus won't be any use to extend the VDSL.

Re: installing a long cable from master socket to modem

danielhand — Fri, 06 Jun 2014 14:28:16 GMT

Having just tried to peak inside the box, it is indeed a "high speed" cat5 cable.
I have a brand new faceplate. (this isn't mine) but that's what I have

You reckon that won't work with an extension lead for the RJ11?

Re: installing a long cable from master socket to modem

MisterW — Fri, 06 Jun 2014 14:34:33 GMT

I'm pretty sure that's a filtered FTTC faceplate. The extension connector on the detachable lower part will be filtered.
From your description of the cable , I'd be tempted to give it a go, It'll probably be fine.
Is it this one http://www.broadbandbuyer.co.uk/Shop/ShopDetail.asp?ProductID=12678 by any chance ?

Re: installing a long cable from master socket to modem

danielhand — Fri, 06 Jun 2014 14:40:50 GMT

That's the one. Although, I did pay twice as much. I think I'll take it back and repurchase it on that site!

Re: installing a long cable from master socket to modem

MisterW — Fri, 06 Jun 2014 14:48:16 GMT

That looks like CAT5 to me, but terminated in RJ11 connectors. I'd say that should be fine ( and really no different to a wired extension ) as long as it's not running near anything that will give any electrical interference.

Quote
I think I'll take it back and repurchase it on that site!

Yes, but you'd have to wait for deleivery

Re: installing a long cable from master socket to modem

NorthEasterner — Fri, 06 Jun 2014 15:44:22 GMT

If you have a extension socket in the room where your computer and existing BB equipment is. It is possible to connect the modem to that socket.
Simply remove the filtered faceplate by removing the 2 screws. 2 parts of the socket will come off, one of the part which doesn't have any cables attached to the back and has the RJ11 port, and the other does have wires but has the standard telephone socket. Gently remove the part that doesn't, the cables will slot through the little gap. Put the part that has the wires going into the back of it, back in and put the screws back in, ensure it is tightly fastened.
Head to your other socket, and put a microfilter into the socket, then attach a RJ11 cable to the modem then run the router from there.
This is my current set up and i'm syncing around 58mb which is my top speed, so speed shouldn't degrade. But if it does then undo everything and run cabling as stated by previous posts.

Re: installing a long cable from master socket to modem

danielhand — Fri, 06 Jun 2014 16:41:16 GMT

Sorry there's only one socket in the flat and that's the master socket

Re: installing a long cable from master socket to modem

PeeGee — Fri, 06 Jun 2014 16:56:46 GMT

The top socket on the openreach "filter" shown above is actually an RJ45 (8p8c) socket not and RJ11 (6p2c), so a standard cat5 cable would fit - though probably not at the modem end
The part with the RJ45 also has A/B IDC connectors that can be use for a fixed unfiltered extension (as was done by the OR engineer for my ADSL connection).

Re: installing a long cable from master socket to modem

NorthEasterner — Fri, 06 Jun 2014 19:51:04 GMT

@PeeGee
I just tried an RJ45 (ethernet) cable and can tell you it doesn't fit.
NE

Re: installing a long cable from master socket to modem

2Senile — Sat, 07 Jun 2014 06:46:55 GMT

If it is any reasurance I'm using 20 Metres of Cat5 RJ11.
Within 200 Metres of Cabinet but " there is Aluminium in the cabinet, the line from the pole is attached to our property at roof-line .... then enters a junction box, we don't have twisted pair drop wire, it is the older "8" & may be CCS, two lines come from the junction box, one line enters a spur box & feeds the so called Master socket ..... & "another" socket. There is nothing connected to the other spur. Roll Eyes
Frankly, surprised how good the connection is! "
Synced at 80000/20000 initially but I really messed around with the settings in my Draytek Vigor 2760n Modem/Router & DLM knocked me down ..... & I stilled played around with it.
Stopped messing around with it on the 5th & DLM put 3Mb/s back.. I was interested in how DLM worked anyway.
Here is what the BT speedtest reported on 2/6/14.
Results Image not loaded

1. Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
Download Speed
73.76 Mbps

0 Mbps 77.44 Mbps
Max Achievable Speed
Download speedachieved during the test was - 73.76 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speedsis 61.95 Mbps-77.44 Mbps .
Additional Information:
IP Profile for your line is - 77.44 Mbps
2. Upstream Test: -provides background information.
Upload Speed
17.01 Mbps

0 Mbps 20 Mbps
Max Achievable Speed
Upload speed achieved during the test was - 17.01Mbps
Additional Information:
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 20 Mbps

Re: installing a long cable from master socket to modem

danielhand — Sat, 07 Jun 2014 08:15:49 GMT

Thanks everyone for your help so far.
I am still toying with the idea of whether to open the box for the Cat5 RJ11 to test it and maybe not being able to return it or just try to find a different solution that is guaranteed to work.
I am still trying to let me line settle in for the time being as last night I was getting high 50/60's down and 18ish up to this morning only getting 25/19. Not sure whether this is because the line is new or what so am keeping a close eye on it for my estimated 72/19

Re: installing a long cable from master socket to modem

PeeGee — Sat, 07 Jun 2014 08:45:53 GMT

@NE
I assume that's the modem end, as I tested the socket before posting (I have ADSL). It also applies to third party ADSL filter plates
Phil