topic Re: Usertools IRC closure in Community Announcements

Usertools IRC closure

LinnPlusnet — Thu, 28 Aug 2014 10:01:12 GMT

Hi all,
Just a quick heads up that in a week or two we're going to be switching off the Usertools IRC server and it's web-based equivalent which can be found here - http://usertools.plus.net/irc/
Those who've logged in over the last day or so will probably already be aware of this. If anyone's any questions though then feel free to shout up!

Re: Usertools IRC closure

TORPC — Thu, 28 Aug 2014 10:04:34 GMT

May I enquire as to the reasoning behind the closure ?

Re: Usertools IRC closure

AndyH — Thu, 28 Aug 2014 10:05:11 GMT

Does anyone use it?

Re: Usertools IRC closure

dvorak — Thu, 28 Aug 2014 10:28:03 GMT

Yes there are few hardcore users

Re: Usertools IRC closure

LinnPlusnet — Thu, 28 Aug 2014 10:47:13 GMT

The Usertools website is moving to a new network location where IRC access is unfortunately against our security policies.
The Usertools IRC server is used by a very small number of customers (less than 20) and whilst we're sorry it has to be closed, it doesn't make much sense for us to continue maintaining it.
Other aspects of the Usertools website such as Gateway and MSO Checker will remain unaffected.

Re: Usertools IRC closure

TORPC — Thu, 28 Aug 2014 11:09:16 GMT

Cheers Linn
When you put it like that then, yes albeit that it has to come to an end, it does seem a viable move forward

Re: Usertools IRC closure

avatastic — Thu, 28 Aug 2014 11:36:06 GMT

Aka, we've found another server to power off and save a few quid.

Re: Usertools IRC closure

TORPC — Thu, 28 Aug 2014 11:40:32 GMT

The human resources that were required to keeping it maintained,
can now concentrate on the area(s) that are causing concern,,
& hopefully have the expertise to fix them

Re: Usertools IRC closure

GeordieMark — Thu, 28 Aug 2014 11:58:34 GMT

I suppose one of the members could run one themselves if they wanted?

Re: Usertools IRC closure

dvorak — Thu, 28 Aug 2014 12:20:08 GMT

Already up and running, see sig for details

Re: Usertools IRC closure

GeordieMark — Thu, 28 Aug 2014 12:31:28 GMT

That was quick

Re: Usertools IRC closure

Anotherone — Thu, 28 Aug 2014 12:32:56 GMT

Quote from: Linn
The Usertools website is moving to a new network location where IRC access is unfortunately against our security policies.
The Usertools IRC server is used by a very small number of customers (less than 20) and whilst we're sorry it has to be closed, it doesn't make much sense for us to continue maintaining it.

What security policies and what pray is supposedly insecure about it?
If I'd discovered it's benefits a while ago, there would certainly be much more use made of it and I would certainly have been encouraging some of the others to use it.
I think this yet again a case of things not being provided or taken away which make life more difficult for people like some of the bright sparks, mods and a few other users. It's a sad shame no one bothered to ask us before making a decision
And what maintenance - very little needed I would imagine. What maintenance has it had in the last x years?
What little it might need, or may have had would certainly have not impacted on anything else.

Re: Usertools IRC closure

GeordieMark — Thu, 28 Aug 2014 12:38:55 GMT

I think if we had a web applet somewhere then a lot more users would use it (for ease of accessing it)

Re: Usertools IRC closure

dvorak — Thu, 28 Aug 2014 12:48:59 GMT

thre was / is (for a day or two more) on the usertools website and it was in my sig for *years*

Re: Usertools IRC closure

bobpullen — Thu, 28 Aug 2014 12:50:16 GMT

Quote from: avatastic
Aka, we've found another server to power off and save a few quid.

The server it's hosted on is staying powered up
It's used to run myriad other things such as the Usertools/Usergroup sites and the Service Status subscription service and RSS feed.

Quote from: Anotherone
Quote from: Linn
The Usertools website is moving to a new network location where IRC access is unfortunately against our security policies.
The Usertools IRC server is used by a very small number of customers (less than 20) and whilst we're sorry it has to be closed, it doesn't make much sense for us to continue maintaining it.

What security policies and what pray is supposedly insecure about it?

Nothing is insecure at present, however we have legitimate concerns about continuing to run an IRC daemon from the location we're moving the Usertools server to.

Quote from: Anotherone
If I'd discovered it's benefits a while ago, there would certainly be much more use made of it and I would certainly have been encouraging some of the others to use it.

The public IRC server/channel in dvorak's sig will probably work just as well, although admittedly there's no web-based front end.

Quote from: Anotherone
I think this yet again a case of things not being provided or taken away which make life more difficult for people like some of the bright sparks, mods and a few other users. It's a sad shame no one bothered to ask us before making a decision

I did ask the mods, and the Usergroup. No, we didn't ask people publicly but to be brutally honest, I didn't see there being any possible justification to keep a server running for ~0.003% of our customer base. It has never been an official avenue of support, has never been an advertised service and has had plenty of time in the wild to have gained traction if its use was ever going to increase significantly.

Quote from: Anotherone
And what maintenance - very little needed I would imagine. What maintenance has it had in the last x years?
What little it might need, or may have had would certainly have not impacted on anything else.

There has been plenty of maintenance affecting the Usertools server over the years. The more services you have accessible to the Internet, the wider the safety net you have to draw around it all from a security perspective.
As mentioned, there are alternatives.

Quote from: Mark_
I think if we had a web applet somewhere then a lot more users would use it (for ease of accessing it)

There has always been a web applet.

Re: Usertools IRC closure

jelv — Thu, 28 Aug 2014 13:04:18 GMT

Quote from: Bob
There has always been a web applet.

Always is exaggerating a bit - but it was there on 18/05/2004: http://web.archive.org/web/20040607193347/http://usertools.plus.net/irc/
Edit: Just found the launch announcement: http://usertools.plus.net/index_2004.php#002

Re: Usertools IRC closure

pwatson — Thu, 28 Aug 2014 13:09:40 GMT

With apologies to Douglas Adams...

Quote
"But Mr Dent, the IRC server details have been available for several years."
"Oh yes, well as soon as I heard I tried to use it, yesterday afternoon. You hadn't exactly gone out of your way to call attention to it, had you? I mean, like actually telling anybody or anything."
"But the server was online..."
"Online? I eventually had to go down to the cellar to find it."
"That's the IRC department."
"With a flashlight."
"Ah, well the lights had probably gone."
"So had the stairs."
"But look, you found the server didn't you?"
"Yes," said Arthur, "yes I did. The access details were in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the Leopard'."

Re: Usertools IRC closure

GeordieMark — Thu, 28 Aug 2014 13:09:45 GMT

I meant a front end for the new unofficial one, but to be honest I wasn't aware that one existed either

Re: Usertools IRC closure

jelv — Thu, 28 Aug 2014 13:11:44 GMT

Is everything else on the server staying as is?
How much is quick link used (http://users.plus.net/QL:67C1427E)? I bet that's something else that not many people know about.

Re: Usertools IRC closure

bobpullen — Thu, 28 Aug 2014 13:15:52 GMT

Quote from: jelv
Always is exaggerating a bit...

I thought it had existed for the same amount of time as the IRC channel itself? I'll forgive myself if I'm wrong, given I was only a few months into new employment at the time

Quote from: jelv
Is everything else on the server staying as is?

Pretty much. Few things going (Tutorials, Chat, IRC), few things tweaked slightly (Gateway Checker), possibly an update or two (SMF) but it's largely staying the same.

Quote from: jelv
How much is quick link used (http://users.plus.net/QL:67C1427E)? I bet that's something else that not many people know about.

Probably fairly easy to find out by checking the database tables but I'd warrant a guess you're right. I reckon most of its usage is probably me!

Quote from: Anotherone
I hardly think that the Mods & few User Group members we see here on the main forums adequately represent a number of other users and bright sparks who put in a lot of effort here on these boards. The 0.003% figure might/could have been higher had things been a bit different, but whilst I'm sure it doesn't include you Bob, it does come across a bit as though the efforts put in by many people here aren't really appreciated - the Mods have been having a very tough time lately and have undoubtedly had little time to consider talking about irc.

That I recognise, and rest assured people's efforts are definitely appreciated

Quote from: Anotherone
I hope the UserGroup Chat page will be update to reflect the new irc.

The Usergroup have access to the new server so can probably make this modification on request.