topic Re: Incomprehensible Website in My Account/Billing

Incomprehensible Website

mugwump083 — Mon, 10 Mar 2025 07:09:32 GMT

I've just spent an hour on the Plusnet website just to get basic, simple information about Plusnet changing my account as it has just completed the initial contract period as they are now over charging me and seem to be leaving me without any phone line etc.

I have been unable to get any information. It may be there but so far impossible to find !!!

The reason is this website is an absolute classic example of the mis-use of computing by fragmenting information & thereby making it impossible /difficult to find or understand if you do find it. There is a vast amount of utter drivel here - too much information, nearly all of which is rubbish and this completely obscures the actual real information a person is looking for. It is utter, utter garbage.

And the final insult is the moronic 'predictive' text software that constantly changes what you type and so forcing you waste vast amounts of time sub-editing the garbage produced by predictive text. It is the most moronic & useless software imaginable and it is beyond my comprehension why anyone wants to inflict it on their customers who all seem to complain about it.

I have been immersed in the world of computing for 6 decades having started off being trained as a young military user of electronics & computing & then graduating into being a journalist being asked to write about computing long before the existence of the 'personal' computer.

So I'm well qualified to know that the World of software & webpage design is appallingly bad all over the internet. Utter, appalling garbage !!!

Moderators Note: All caps title removed as per Forum rules

Re: INCOMPREHENSIBLE WEBSITE

outcast — Mon, 10 Mar 2025 07:11:57 GMT

I agree, many of us who have been here a long time keep our own list of shortcuts to specific pages of information that we know exist on the Plusnet website, but otherwise can't find by navigating the site because links have disappeared over time, or pages simply became orphaned due to the dumbing down of the content from what was once a useful site.

@mugwump083 wrote:

It is the most moronic & useless software imaginable and it is beyond my comprehension why anyone wants to inflict it on their customers who all seem to complain about it.

My current pet hatred, is the [-Censored-] pointless CAPTCHA puzzles, that I have to solve the picture puzzles up to 30 times in succession, before I can view what packages are available to me !. WHY make it so difficult and frustrating to simply visit the home page - blocked by the "Let us know that you're not a robot" page !

@mugwump083 wrote:

... simple information about Plusnet changing my account as it has just completed the initial contract period as they are now over charging me and seem to be leaving me without any phone line etc.

... I have been unable to get any information. It may be there but so far impossible to find !!!

The brief answer to your question (in words that you won't find from Plusnet) -

If you are currently on ADSL, and no other option is available to you, then you'll need to leave Plusnet by the end of 2025.

If you are currently on FTTC (with a phone service), then before the end of 2025, you'll need to 'upgrade' to SOGEA (AKA Plusnet 'Fibre'), AND you'll need to migrate your landline telephone NUMBER to a third party VoIP supplier (because Openreach are withdrawing UK PSTN landline phones at the end of 2025, and Plusnet aren't going to provided a VoIP service for phone users).

As you are 'out of contract' then upgrading to SOGEA will start a new contract period (typically 18 or 24 months) for a lower price than what you're paying now. Moving from FTTC to SOGEA won't affect how your broadband is provided currently, but your landline phone will disappear. After your upgrade has completed, you have 30 days (before your number becomes lost) to migrate your landline NUMBER to a VoIP provider. When your phone service has migrated to VoIP, you can either buy a new VoIP telephone handset, or buy an ATA adaptor which converts your existing phone from being analogue voice to being digital, with the new phone or adaptor plugging in to a spare LAN socket on your broadband router (instead of the BT master socket).

If I've missed anything or you have any questions, there are a lot of knowledgable forum users here to help you, so just ask !

Moderators Note: Avoidance of swear filer removed

Re: Incomprehensible Website

dvorak — Mon, 10 Mar 2025 07:10:17 GMT

Moderators Note

This topic has been moved from Broadband to My Account / Billing

Re: Incomprehensible Website

Dan_the_Van — Mon, 10 Mar 2025 07:56:54 GMT

@mugwump083

Being with plusnet for around 24 years I agree their website has had many versions.

I find the A to Z useful https://www.plus.net/help/a-z/

This link might be handy https://www.plus.net/help/broadband/broadband-package-guide/

I asked Google Gemini AI, plusnet broadband what are my upgrade options

Re: Incomprehensible Website

jab1 — Mon, 10 Mar 2025 07:57:24 GMT

@mugwump083 wrote:

I've just spent an hour on the Plusnet website just to get basic, simple information about Plusnet changing my account as it has just completed the initial contract period as they are now over charging me and seem to be leaving me without any phone line etc.

I have been unable to get any information. It may be there but so far impossible to find !!!

The reason is this website is an absolute classic example of the mis-use of computing by fragmenting information & thereby making it impossible /difficult to find or understand if you do find it. There is a vast amount of utter drivel here - too much information, nearly all of which is rubbish and this completely obscures the actual real information a person is looking for. It is utter, utter garbage.

And the final insult is the moronic 'predictive' text software that constantly changes what you type and so forcing you waste vast amounts of time sub-editing the garbage produced by predictive text. It is the most moronic & useless software imaginable and it is beyond my comprehension why anyone wants to inflict it on their customers who all seem to complain about it.

I have been immersed in the world of computing for 6 decades having started off being trained as a young military user of electronics & computing & then graduating into being a journalist being asked to write about computing long before the existence of the 'personal' computer.

So I'm well qualified to know that the World of software & webpage design is appallingly bad all over the internet. Utter, appalling garbage !!!

Moderators Note: All caps title removed as per Forum rules

They are not 'overcharging' you - your contract has a length (12/18/24 months) after which you are clearly informed in the contract notification that, unless you negotiate a new one, you will pay the 'out of contract' price, which is also plainly stated.

The 'moronic software' is a feature of your computer - nothing to do with Plusnet, and if you have been 'writing about computing', for many years, one would hope you had a basic understanding about how electronic data storage works.

I too have been 'immersed' in computing, (for around 50 years) having been involved in the development of a large company's transition from paper to electronic data storage in the very early 1970's and the deployment of that technology at other establishments - and then the creation of three other similar systems elsewhere.

To be honest, I don't see the issues you do.

Re: Incomprehensible Website

outcast — Mon, 10 Mar 2025 11:06:16 GMT

@mugwump083 wrote:

I've just spent an hour on the Plusnet website just to get basic, simple information ...

... I have been unable to get any information. It may be there but so far impossible to find !!!

The reason is this website is an absolute classic example of the mis-use of computing by fragmenting information & thereby making it impossible /difficult to find or understand if you do find it.

...

@outcast wrote:

My current pet hatred, is the [-Censored-] pointless CAPTCHA puzzles, that I have to solve the picture puzzles up to 30 times in succession, before I can view what packages are available to me !. WHY make it so difficult and frustrating to simply visit the home page - blocked by the "Let us know that you're not a robot" page !

...

@Dan_the_Van wrote:

I asked Google Gemini AI, plusnet broadband what are my upgrade options

Is it just me, or can anyone else see the self defeating loop here ?.

Over the years, Plusnet have dumbed down their website, and in the process have made once easily available information difficult or impossible to find.

In response, users like me and @Dan_the_Van have resorted to navigating to the relevant pages by using Google searches, or asking an AI, to find the information we know exists but is too time consuming to try and find within the Plusnet website.

In retaliation to being externally searched by Google and AIs, Plusnet have imposed their broken "Let us know that you're not a robot" CAPTCHA process, which blocks legitimate users trying to find information about their own accounts, new customers from discovering what deals are available, or forum members being able to provide authoritative sources for replies here.

Now that the CAPTCHA is blocking external searching, the results from Google and AIs, are becoming less useful or accurate, so Plusnet are now likely losing out, as people just give up looking.

There have been times when I've wanted to give a quick answer to a question on this forum, and thought that I will provide a linked reference to a page on the Plusnet help pages, then have had to wade through repeatedly solving the CAPTCHA puzzles CORRECTLY up to THIRTY times before the website would let me access the site. Needless to say, this frequent chore of having to prove that I'm not a robot, now puts me off answering forum questions, because why should I waste my time proving that I'm not a robot, when another customer can't find what they are looking for, because Plusnet have hidden the information, and now deliberately making it so difficult for me to be able to answer the question on their behalf.

Perhaps if Plusnet rewrote their website to clearly present ALL relevant information (as used to be the case), that customer's wouldn't have to resort to asking Google or AIs, and maybe Plusnet wouldn't have to block internet robots.

Re: Incomprehensible Website

jab1 — Mon, 10 Mar 2025 11:09:14 GMT

@outcast wrote:

In retaliation to being externally searched by Google and AIs, Plusnet have imposed their broken "Let us know that you're not a robot" CAPTCHA process, which blocks legitimate users trying to find information about their own accounts, new customers from discovering what deals are available, or forum members being able to provide authoritative sources for replies here.

Now that the CAPTCHA is blocking external searching, the results from Google and AIs, are becoming less useful or accurate, so Plusnet are now likely losing out, as people just give up looking.

There have been times when I've thought I'd give a quick answer to a question on this forum, and thought that I will provide a linked reference to a page on the Plusnet help pages, and then have to wade through solving the CAPTCHA puzzles CORRECTLY up to THIRTY times before the website would let me access the site. Needless to say, this frequent chore of having to prove that I'm not a robot, now puts me off answering forum questions, because why should I waste my time proving that I'm not a robot, when another customer can't find what they are looking for, because Plusnet have hidden the information, and now making it so difficult for me to be able to answer the question on their behalf.

Perhaps if Plusnet rewrote their website to clearly present ALL relevant information (as used to be the case), that customer's wouldn't have to resort to asking Google or AIs, and maybe Plusnet wouldn't have to block internet robots.

.

As you know, I am no longer a PN customer, but in those five years, I have never had to 'wade through the CAPTCHA puzzles', even if I have gone via a search engine - which is very rare.

Re: Incomprehensible Website

outcast — Mon, 10 Mar 2025 11:34:52 GMT

Ok, so for the first time on here today,

I used Firefox (without any ad-blockers, or anything messing with cookies) to navigate to https://www.plus.net/

and immediately get presented with this -

It is utterly infuriating that I often repeatedly need to solve these puzzles UP TO 30 TIMES just to visit the home page ! -

Re: Incomprehensible Website

jab1 — Mon, 10 Mar 2025 11:35:08 GMT

@outcast Did you do this via a search engine, or by directly inserting to the address bar?

Something which has just occurred to me is that I am still, technically, a PN customer as I have a 'mail-only' account, which may be a confusing factor - I'll have to wait until I can use a machine that doesn't 'know' I am and see if I have the issues you describe.

Re: Incomprehensible Website

outcast — Mon, 10 Mar 2025 11:40:53 GMT

@jab1

I directly typed 'plus.net' in to the Firefox address bar.

Regarding account status, as an ex-customer, I don't have any left over features such as 'mail-only', etc, but I can still login to the "Member Centre" - although there is very little remaining to navigate to.

Re: Incomprehensible Website

jab1 — Mon, 10 Mar 2025 11:44:02 GMT

@outcast OK - next time I'm away from home, and my machines - I get the same results on the laptop, iPad and phone - I'll see if it happens to me.

Re: Incomprehensible Website

outcast — Mon, 10 Mar 2025 12:01:57 GMT

The greater point here, is that while this is a significant annoyance to me, that if I'm being blocked (as an ex-customer), that I can't be alone in seeing this, and there might be thousands of non-Plusnet customers wanting to find out what products are available to them, only to be blocked from easily finding what they're looking for and give up without complaining here that Plusnet have this ridiculous anti-robot firewall (requiring seemingly endless attempts at solving the CAPTCHA puzzles) blocking quick and easy access to information that might otherwise lead to them becoming potential new customers.

Plusnet don't seem interested in fixing their website to make it easy to use. For how many years have we seen current customers report that they can't upgrade, renew contracts, or make some account change, because Plusnet have never fixed the underlying issue that causes the Member Centre to block changes with this message (when no changes are in progress) -

"Something's gone wrong, please wait until we've finished updating your broadband service before making another change."

Re: Incomprehensible Website

RobPN — Mon, 10 Mar 2025 12:58:50 GMT

@outcast wrote:

I directly typed 'plus.net' in to the Firefox address bar.

I just tried that using a Chrome incognito window, no CAPTCHA appeared, just the cookie choice pop-up which I rejected, then inviting me to sign in, which I didn't.

Re: Incomprehensible Website

outcast — Mon, 10 Mar 2025 13:21:25 GMT

@RobPN

that's a fair point - it might be browser related, I typically only use Firefox, and rarely bother with other browsers,

so after reading your post I tried a fresh install of Chromium browser, typed in 'plus.net', and immediately got this -

Re: Incomprehensible Website

bmc — Mon, 10 Mar 2025 13:25:37 GMT

@mugwump083

If you are out of contract you will be paying inflated charges.

If you can't login try phoning the PlusNet Customer Options Team on 0800 013 2632

Brian

Re: Incomprehensible Website

outcast — Mon, 10 Mar 2025 13:48:37 GMT

@bmc wrote:

If you are out of contract you will be paying inflated charges ... ...

I suspect the underlying fundamental question that @mugwump083 was asking was more to do with there being no official explanation of how one does a broadband re-contract with Plusnet AND retain the landline phone number. - without being forced to transfer broadband and phone to BT/EE (and in the process potentially losing a Plusnet email account, referrals, static IP, webspace, etc).

As far as I'm aware, I don't think there is an official statement anywhere, that categorically explains -

that Plusnet won't provide a VoIP phone service either now or in the future
what the plans are for the retirement of Plusnet analogue landline phones before the end of 2025
that Plusnet appear to be abandoning ADSL users when the PSTN phone system is switched off after 2025.
or that ADSL users being encouraged to move to BT/EE, that "digital voice" is unavailable, or unlikely to work.

Re: Incomprehensible Website

outcast — Mon, 10 Mar 2025 14:51:50 GMT

@Dan_the_Van wrote:

I asked Google Gemini AI

Out of interest, I just asked an online AI the following question -

What is Plusnet's official position on how existing customers that only have ADSL broadband available to them, plan to continue having access to a home phone after 2025, when it is known that the network provider Openreach will be retiring PSTN landline phone services after December 2025, and that Plusnet don't provide ADSL services without a working telephone number associated with the copper wire landline that also provides the DSL broadband.

It answered -

Plusnet’s current stance is that it will cease offering home phone services entirely once the PSTN switch-off occurs, as its ADSL broadband packages are intrinsically tied to an active PSTN phone number for both service delivery and account management. Openreach, the network provider, will stop supporting analogue landlines by December 2025 (with potential delays to January 2027), replacing them with digital infrastructure where available (e.g., FTTC or FTTP). However, in areas limited to ADSL—where no fibre options exist—Plusnet has not committed to a clear solution that preserves both broadband access and a functional phone number post-PSTN retirement. Historically, Plusnet’s ADSL service requires a working copper line with an associated phone number, even if the customer does not use the voice service. This number is critical for provisioning and maintaining the DSL connection. With the PSTN shutdown, the analogue voice capability of these lines will end, and Plusnet has confirmed it will not replace this with a VoIP or "Digital Voice" alternative, unlike BT or EE, which integrate such services into their offerings. Plusnet’s shift to a broadband-only provider model means it intends to decouple phone services from its portfolio, but for ADSL customers, this creates a problem: without the PSTN phone number, the existing service model collapses unless a replacement mechanism is introduced. Plusnet’s official guidance, as per its website and community forums, suggests that after 2025, ADSL customers will either: 1. **Lose their phone number and service entirely** if no alternative broadband product (like Openreach’s Single Order Transition Access Product [SOTAP]) is adopted by Plusnet, or 2. **Transition to a broadband-only ADSL replacement** if Plusnet opts to support SOTAP or a similar product, which delivers DSL over copper without a PSTN voice component. However, Plusnet has not explicitly confirmed it will offer SOTAP, and even if it does, this would not include a phone service or preserve the existing number unless customers take additional steps. For customers needing to retain home phone access, Plusnet advises exploring external options: - **Third-party VoIP providers**: Customers could port their existing Plusnet-assigned phone number (before it’s lost) to a VoIP service like Vonage, Sipgate, or Andrews & Arnold. This requires separate hardware (e.g., an ATA) and a stable internet connection, but Plusnet does not facilitate this process or guarantee compatibility with its ADSL service. - **Mobile alternatives**: Using mobile phones with Wi-Fi calling or apps, though this depends on local coverage and may not suit all users, especially in rural ADSL-only areas. The technical challenge of insufficient bandwidth and QoS issues for VoIP over ADSL—remains a hurdle. ADSL speeds (typically 8-17 Mbps down, 0.5-1 Mbps up) can theoretically support VoIP (e.g., 100 Kbps per call), but Plusnet’s routers lack advanced QoS to prioritize voice traffic amidst other internet use. Low upload speeds, latency, and jitter can degrade call quality, particularly during peak usage, and Plusnet offers no solution to mitigate this, leaving customers to source third-party routers or expertise independently. If Plusnet does not adopt SOTAP or a similar ADSL-only product, ADSL customers in non-fibre areas could lose both broadband and their phone number entirely unless they switch providers. Openreach’s SOTAP could allow broadband to continue without a PSTN line, but Plusnet’s silence on this option suggests it may not prioritize supporting legacy ADSL post-2025. Alternatively, customers could migrate to BT, which offers Digital Voice over FTTC or FTTP (where available) and may preserve their number, though this isn’t an option for ADSL-only zones. In essence, Plusnet’s position is that it will not provide a direct replacement for the disappearing PSTN phone number or a VoIP service for ADSL customers. It expects them to either accept a broadband-only future (if feasible) or independently secure a VoIP solution despite the technical challenges of ADSL bandwidth. This reflects Plusnet’s pivot away from bundled services but leaves ADSL customers without a seamless path to retain both broadband and a phone number after 2025, effectively offloading the problem onto users or other providers.

Re: Incomprehensible Website

jab1 — Mon, 10 Mar 2025 14:59:33 GMT

As I have said before, although not on this topic I don't think, the decision not to offer a voice option with the Plusnet brand is one taken by BT Consumer Division.

Re: Incomprehensible Website

outcast — Mon, 10 Mar 2025 16:20:27 GMT

... but that is not relevant to the original question posed in this topic.

It is not what Plusnet's internal policy actually is, or who's to blame for deciding Plusnet's future direction.

The issue is, that nowhere on the website do Plusnet provided clear guidance for future or existing customers when they start or renew an 18 or 24 month contract, and that the imminent changes to PSTN, ADSL, and FTTC cannot be fulfilled for the duration of the contract (beyond 2025).

Because Plusnet apparently isn't proactively advising those customers of these known timescales and fundamental changes to their service within the contract lifetime, that many unsuspecting customers are likely to be trapped into a long term contract from which they can't choose to leave to a (non-BT/EE) third party provider without early leaving penalties, and at short notice lose their email or phone service, when they could have otherwise made better choices if Plusnet had provided the information.

Even recently, we've seen here cases of forum members renewing 'as is' their FTTC with phone service contract, when we all know that Openreach are supposedly withdrawing the PSTN service at the end of 2025.

There was also the case of an informed customer on ADSL with phone, who specifically asked Plusnet support what their situation will be after the PSTN switch-off, and the official response was to transfer to EE and use "digital voice" - highlighting that Plusnet support were unaware that EE don't supply ADSL, and that "digital voice" on ADSL using an ISP supplied router is unlikely to work !.

Re: Incomprehensible Website

jab1 — Mon, 10 Mar 2025 16:28:55 GMT

Fair enough - I'm not here to support BTCD - in fact, my main reason for leaving PN was that I could see where they were being 'positioned' by BT, even before the creation of the Consumer Division - and I didn't like what I could see coming.

As to the advice offered (or not), this does not surprise me in the slightest - it is typical of the BT attitude to customers - and the Plusnet brand is exactly that - BT 'in disguise'.