topic Re: The CPI+ increase is really muddying the upgrade path. in My Account/Billing

The CPI+ increase is really muddying the upgrade path.

Wildroverandy — Fri, 18 Nov 2022 15:45:21 GMT

So, I got the email about the Black Friday deals to upgrade my BB to Full Fibre. I'm tempted.

But, I'm not happy about the price being quoted, and the time it has before the CPI+ increase is applied. I basically get about 4 months before the price increases. At current trends, it's going to be at least a 15% increase.

Now that just confuses matters, as my contract on normal Fibre is up in May. So my thought is I'm probably better off either letting that run to the end and shopping around for the best deal then. Or, I could just take the hit for early termination, and find the best deal in March.

Everyone has been offering new customer deals, so what's keeping me at PlusNet then? (forgetting all the customer satisfaction and features I don't need baloney, this is simply about the cost)

I did an online chat this morning, just to see if they'd offer any kind of deal to make me upgrade right now. Nope, nothing, they're sticking by their guns on that one, the price will go up in March.

I realise everyone is doing this now, but it is just one massive bandwagon that everyone has jumped on (whether you actually need to increase prices, or not, is not certain, but broadband prices stayed pretty stable for many years before this came about). I'm sure this rule was implemented to protect the consumer, but in reality, it's done the opposite.

Re: The CPI+ increase is really muddying the upgrade path.

darkpl — Fri, 18 Nov 2022 18:30:16 GMT

~~As far as I know, if you lock into a 24 month contract, the price will not increase until the contract is up.~~

~~Please see here~~

~~For customers who are in a fixed price contract minimum term, with the exception of BT Sport, these price increases will only apply to you once your minimum term ends.~~

Scratch all of above - it seems they can increase the price in line with CPI - which I agree is a really not cool thing to do

TalkTalk does promise not to increase in line with CPI for a small fee, that's why I mixed things up - but then you have to deal with Talk Talk

Re: The CPI+ increase is really muddying the upgrade path.

Dan_the_Van — Fri, 18 Nov 2022 18:45:33 GMT

@Wildroverandy This has been discussed before.

https://community.plus.net/t5/Plusnet-Feedback/5-4-CPI-3-9-9-3/m-p/1852926#M88296

You were the first to comment on this thread.

https://community.plus.net/t5/General-Chat/13-predicted-CPI-3-9-16-9/m-p/1882077#M296637

You could call customer options team to see if they can improve on the offer.

Not really a Full Fibre Broadband issue is it? More My Account

Re: The CPI+ increase is really muddying the upgrade path.

willcutforth — Fri, 18 Nov 2022 18:47:37 GMT

It's more about transparency to the customer. Previously we would just pre-warn, "In x amount of days we will be upping line rental/broadband to x amount" but instead now customers know that it's the CPI + 3.9%. I've been here for years and I can remember when line rental was 15.95 and then when it went up and up and we would get customers, who would come through asking us "where are you basing these figures from?" at least now we can say that it's down to the CPI and the added 3.9.

I can understand it from a consumers point of view though and all of your points are valid.

Re: The CPI+ increase is really muddying the upgrade path.

ad47uk — Fri, 18 Nov 2022 19:16:31 GMT

The CPI+ is a problem, a contract should be that, and they should not be allowed to rise prices in that contract, i have noticed that i can now get FTTP via the open reach network, so I could update my contract from FTTC to FTTP, but it is a 24-month contract and while at the moment the offers make the 74Mb/s full fibre slightly cheaper than what I am paying for 38Mb/s FTTC, it is that 24 month contract and to be honest, would i really notice any difference?

My contract ends at the end of june next year, if i was going to sign up for a 24 month contract I would go for a Alt network, but to be honest with the way things are going cost of living rise, I will be looking for something cheaper and also the problem with FTTP is hassle to have it installed.

Re: The CPI+ increase is really muddying the upgrade path.

Wildroverandy — Fri, 18 Nov 2022 22:50:57 GMT

@Dan_the_Van wrote:

@Wildroverandy This has been discussed before.

https://community.plus.net/t5/Plusnet-Feedback/5-4-CPI-3-9-9-3/m-p/1852926#M88296

You were the first to comment on this thread.

https://community.plus.net/t5/General-Chat/13-predicted-CPI-3-9-16-9/m-p/1882077#M296637

You could call customer options team to see if they can improve on the offer.

Not really a Full Fibre Broadband issue is it? More My Account

Yes, sorry it's been discussed before. Clearly the issue is still there, so I'm discussing it again.

I contacted the customer team, which didn't change the offer at all.

Sorry I posted in the wrong forum.

Re: The CPI+ increase is really muddying the upgrade path.

Wildroverandy — Fri, 18 Nov 2022 22:55:20 GMT

@willcutforth wrote:

It's more about transparency to the customer. Previously we would just pre-warn, "In x amount of days we will be upping line rental/broadband to x amount" but instead now customers know that it's the CPI + 3.9%. I've been here for years and I can remember when line rental was 15.95 and then when it went up and up and we would get customers, who would come through asking us "where are you basing these figures from?" at least now we can say that it's down to the CPI and the added 3.9.

I can understand it from a consumers point of view though and all of your points are valid.

Thanks Will. Yeah, I go back to the days of paying dialup subscription and call charges on top.

The reality is that over the years, it's been pretty consistent for ISPs to have increased the speeds, and the download limits, as well as reducing the prices. It's also been normal, for as long as I can remember, for a contract to have a fixed cost for its term. The recent rule changes have meant this is no longer the case.

I would still argue that this is possible, especially as you all offer vastly reduced prices to new customers, or those wanting to renew their existing contracts.

Cheers

Re: The CPI+ increase is really muddying the upgrade path.

Wildroverandy — Fri, 18 Nov 2022 23:03:41 GMT

@ad47uk wrote:

The CPI+ is a problem, a contract should be that, and they should not be allowed to rise prices in that contract, i have noticed that i can now get FTTP via the open reach network, so I could update my contract from FTTC to FTTP, but it is a 24-month contract and while at the moment the offers make the 74Mb/s full fibre slightly cheaper than what I am paying for 38Mb/s FTTC, it is that 24 month contract and to be honest, would i really notice any difference?

My contract ends at the end of june next year, if i was going to sign up for a 24 month contract I would go for a Alt network, but to be honest with the way things are going cost of living rise, I will be looking for something cheaper and also the problem with FTTP is hassle to have it installed.

That's the crux of the issue of course. The current cost of living crisis is hitting everywhere now, and I feel there are some that are simply increasing charges because they can, rather than they have to - good deals are there, but only if you want to jump ship and become a new customer somewhere else.

It seems to me the most sensible thing to do, is to time signing up so you can get a full year at the best price you can get. By signing up now, I only get 4 months before the price goes up - that's surely misrepresented marketing. They say I'm signing up for a given price (£25.99) in big bold letters. But in reality, it's not that, and they can even really quote a price, as they don't know what it's going to be from one year to the next. But it will change twice before I end my contract, and it won't work out at £25.99, as advertised, after that time.

Yeah, it's making me angry,

Re: The CPI+ increase is really muddying the upgrade path.

TheMightyAJ — Sat, 19 Nov 2022 08:49:04 GMT

Hi @Wildroverandy,

Thanks for reaching out to us with this feedback. I've logged a support ticket on your account this morning in response, which can be accessed here. If you have any further questions, please don't hesitate to get back in touch and I'll be happy to assist wherever I can

Re: The CPI+ increase is really muddying the upgrade path.

Wildroverandy — Sat, 19 Nov 2022 09:12:19 GMT

Hi Alex,

Thank you for the response. I appreciate it - I would have responded directly, but that doesn't seem possible on the ticket system.

Sorry if I'm coming across a bit angry with this, but as my current ISP, it is of course being aimed at you. I realise this is an industry wide matter.

I think the issue I mostly have, is the marketing of the cost. Everyone is stating a price, which is clearly not accurate. It's normal to see '£xx.xx for 24 months, but it isn't at all an accurate price, and it's not even possible to know what that price is going to end up at. Of course, I appreciate that's not all your fault, nobody does know that right now. But if I'm going to tie into a long contract, I really would like to now how much it's going to cost me. I know the CPI thing isn't going away, but stop misleading us about the prices when we sign up.

To make things worse though, you're not even offering the best deals to renew or upgrade my contract.

I've just checked on U-Switch, and a new customer can get a better deal than I can - for example, the same £23.99 deal for 74MBs, is a 24 month contract for me. A new customer can get the same price on an 18 month contract, and get the £50 voucher that's only available on the more expensive deals to me as an existing customer.

It's just all a thing I have about renewal prices vs new customer only deals. It really annoys me, and has become a bit of a mission of mine now to try and make point about it, and ask why can't existing, and loyal customers, simply be offered the best deals without having to fight for them.

Best Regards

Re: The CPI+ increase is really muddying the upgrade path.

TheMightyAJ — Sat, 19 Nov 2022 09:49:18 GMT

Thanks for getting back in touch. I can understand your position and I'd like to offer my apologies for any uncertainty surrounding the pricing. Before any price change goes live, we will tell you in advance what the new charges are, though I appreciate that this isn't the main crux of your feedback. If you have any further queries for us closer to the time of your renewal, please let us know and we'll be more than happy to assist

Re: The CPI+ increase is really muddying the upgrade path.

bgiles — Sat, 19 Nov 2022 10:20:59 GMT

It's about time OFCOM applied the same rules to ISP's as has now been applied to the insurance industry, where existing customers are charged the same or less than new customers.

For many years, loyal customers were paying elevated premiums in order to subsidise the discounting of new customers.

Whilst this won't necessarily make any difference to the annual increases, it would at least result in a farer playing field.

Discounting should only be applied to customers who make a commitment to stay with an ISP for a defined period.

Re: The CPI+ increase is really muddying the upgrade path.

Baldrick1 — Sat, 19 Nov 2022 11:27:27 GMT

Moderators Note

This topic has been moved from Full Fibre to My Account/Billing

Re: The CPI+ increase is really muddying the upgrade path.

Wildroverandy — Sat, 19 Nov 2022 12:16:04 GMT

Well, I've sent a message to OfCom just to highlight this price quoting anomaly which is caused by the CPI increase.

My suggestion, which is the fairest I can think of, is if they amended the rule slightly so that you don't get any increase in price for at the the first 12 months after signing a contract.

I think would should expect to get at least a year on the price that was quoted when we signed up.

But as is usual with most things now, the price increase to the consumer is applied using an automatic system. Any possible reduction in price, either by a natural cost decrease, or with a special deal, has to be first found by, and then requested by the customer - sometimes with a level of bartering (sounds quite medieval really).

That just seems like madness to me, and yet our protecting governing body has come up with that!

Re: The CPI+ increase is really muddying the upgrade path.

Townman — Sat, 19 Nov 2022 12:53:58 GMT

Oh boy, do people carp on a bit much about price ... whilst not looking at value for money! Has everyone forgotten that 20 years ago we were paying much the same for far less? See ISPreview UK - Independent Internet Service Provider Information Source

IIRC that was for 2mbps.

In real terms, we pay darned little for what we get today.

Re: The CPI+ increase is really muddying the upgrade path.

Wildroverandy — Sat, 19 Nov 2022 13:02:43 GMT

@Townman wrote:

Oh boy, do people carp on a bit much about price ... whilst not looking at value for money! Has everyone forgotten that 20 years ago we were paying much the same for far less? See ISPreview UK - Independent Internet Service Provider Information Source

IIRC that was for 2mbps.

In real terms, we pay darned little for what we get today.

Of course you're right there, but that's similar to a lot of things, such as a TV perhaps. Many things have become relatively cheaper, but this isn't 20 years ago. Back when I was a kid, I could travel about on the bus all day and buy dinner for under a quid :-).

The price is important of course, the price of everything is important right now, to a great many people. This is more about how the product is being sold to the customer right now.

Re: The CPI+ increase is really muddying the upgrade path.

Townman — Sat, 19 Nov 2022 13:21:20 GMT

@Wildroverandy wrote:
Back when I was a kid, I could travel about on the bus all day and buy dinner for under a quid :-).

You make the point well that for most things, doing the same now costs far more than it did when we were younger. But for internet technology (and to a large extent IT in general) today we get substantially more for the same number of groats as 20 years ago, even though today's groats ain't worth what they were.

As for marketing, it all depends on how you read the words "£24.50* for a 12-month contract" or "£21.50* for a 24-month contract" (*annual price increases apply) DOES NOT say that the price is for the duration. It says that's the price for your commitment to the duration. You get it a bit cheaper because you make the commitment to a longer duration.

Re: The CPI+ increase is really muddying the upgrade path.

Wildroverandy — Sat, 19 Nov 2022 15:02:30 GMT

@Townman wrote:

@Wildroverandy wrote:
Back when I was a kid, I could travel about on the bus all day and buy dinner for under a quid :-).

You make the point well that for most things, doing the same now costs far more than it did when we were younger. But for internet technology (and to a large extent IT in general) today we get substantially more for the same number of groats as 20 years ago, even though today's groats ain't worth what they were.

My point there was that looking back at the past too far is not always of any use. It's not particularly a lesson learnt in this context, or of any great help right now. Sometimes it's useful to learn from the past - such as what happens if we start a war!

As for marketing, it all depends on how you read the words "£24.50* for a 12-month contract" or "£21.50* for a 24-month contract" (*annual price increases apply) DOES NOT say that the price is for the duration. It says that's the price for your commitment to the duration. You get it a bit cheaper because you make the commitment to a longer duration.

The clever use of words is often used to entice consumers into buying something. What we've been fighting for for many years, is greater transparency, so we don't have to translate them into normal language.

But, you're wrong about the layout there. On my account offers page, it just says the price, with 'a month*' written under it - with the tiny asterisk. The pop down box states a 24 month contract, no other information is provided there. If I missed that little asterisk, I would assume that I'm paying that price for 24 months (of course I don't, as I'm now well aware of all this).

The asterisk linked text is as the bottom of the page, once you scroll right down to see it. It's very easy to click the 'Upgrade to this' button without ever seeing that disclaimer.

There's also a double asterisk against the shopping voucher offer, but no matching text to explain it.

For sure, PlusNet's info is not too bad, but some are much worse.

Re: The CPI+ increase is really muddying the upgrade path.

Longliner — Sat, 19 Nov 2022 16:20:14 GMT

Agree with all the points raised but my complaint is with Ofcom: annual increase of CPI+3.9% was fair enough when the CPI was away down with interest rates for the past 20 years or more, but nobody except us old-timers expected the CPI to hit 11% as it did last month! Our young relatives have never known hard times such as 15% mortgage rate in 1979 but all except one heeded our ancient grumblings and have refrained from going into debt, and are they glad they didn't.

Many wage demands seem to call for around 5% plus inflation = 15% or even more but few have any hope of getting them. All the ISPs were doing fairly well but a 14% increase for an essential service is out of order. And by 'essential' I don't mean fast streaming of movies, little Johnny's games connection, but so many Government services, such as VAT for which small business must account and pay every month.

I think Ofcom needs to think again on this increase in the light of CPI's big jump.

Re: The CPI+ increase is really muddying the upgrade path.

Wildroverandy — Sat, 19 Nov 2022 16:30:08 GMT

@Longliner wrote:

Agree with all the points raised but my complaint is with Ofcom: annual increase of CPI+3.9% was fair enough when the CPI was away down with interest rates for the past 20 years or more, but nobody except us old-timers expected the CPI to hit 11% as it did last month!

Wage demands are now for around 5% plus inflation = 15% or even more but few have any hope of getting them. All the ISPs were doing fairly well but a 14% increase for an essential service is out of order. And by 'essential' I don't mean fast streaming of movies, little Johnny's games connection, but so many Government services, such as VAT for which small business must account and pay every month.

I think Ofcom needs to think again on this increase in the light of CPI's big jump.

For sure, yes, I agree with all that. As much as it's OfCom's rule though, it is a limit, not a target.

It seems to me that we actually faired OK with ISPs battling it out in a competitive market, without such a rule in place. This rule has actually made it worse for the consumer.