topic Re: Incorrect charging - Broadband Subscription Pricing in My Account/Billing

Incorrect charging - Broadband Subscription Pricing

corringham — Mon, 11 Apr 2022 17:59:05 GMT

First thing, this isn't really a problem I expect a personal resolution to - it is just an expression of frustration at the ongoing amateurish mess that Plusnet has become.

For the past couple of months I've received an e-mail saying that I'm due a refund due to "Incorrect charging - Broadband Subscription Pricing". I don't believe Plusnet should get the pricing wrong on an ongoing basis like they do.

And the bill is just a mess - here's the latest (N.B. I don't consider the prices shown here to be personal, so they don't need to be "moderated"):

Line Rental	-£6.16
Line Rental	£6.73
Line Rental	£23.19
Unlimited UK & Mobile	-£2.73
Unlimited UK & Mobile	£2.98
Unlimited UK & Mobile	£10.28
Caller Display	£0.00
Plusnet Protect (Included)	£0.00
Plusnet Unlimited Broadband	-£3.39
Plusnet Unlimited Broadband	£3.70
Plusnet Unlimited Broadband	£12.74
Discount	£3.39
Discount	-£3.70
Discount	-£12.74
Call Barring	£0.00
Adjustments	-£2.23

There are three entries for each of "Line Rental", "Unlimited UK & Mobile", "Plusnet Unlimited Broadband", and "Discount".

The best bit is that one of the Discount amounts actually adds £3.39 to the bill - i.e. an anti-discount! Altogether the Discounts cancel out the Plusnet Unlimited Broadband, which is correct (as it was a line rental includes broadband deal), but a very confusing way to show it.

However the Line Rental amounts do not total up to the amount shown on my "My Products" page - £23.76 vs £23.19.

And the Unlimited UK & Mobile also don't total up to the "My Products" amount - £10.53 vs £10.28.

Presumably that is where the "Adjustments" comes in - but I have no idea where that particular figure comes from!

I know billing problems have been going on for years, but come on Plusnet get your act together - while you still have an act!

Re: Incorrect charging - Broadband Subscription Pricing

Grainger — Tue, 12 Apr 2022 11:26:45 GMT

You are right on the case Corringham! I am also frustrated with Plusnet for the same reason :INACCURATE BILLING. I suspect there are thousands of us, most stunned into silence because it’s ‘too difficult’. Also, the Member Centre contains inaccurate information regarding my contract.

For me, the rot set in when, over 2 years ago my billing became irregular then stopped.
Fearing the worst, I was assured by Plusnet that all would be well following which my contract was suddenly terminated and broadband/phone closed without warning, an unsafe act bordering reckless as my wife and I are almost 80 and totally dependent on phone for communications. I had to reapply and had it not been for one loyal and apologetic Plusnet employee I would have left the company. Here we are again after 2 years and I fear Plusnet has all the signs of a sinking ship.

My recent bill for April 2022 has 20 (twenty!) components. I consider Plusnet’s Billing System unfit for purpose.

Yesterday, Plusnet failed to reassure me my bill is correct. A large part of the call was the operative’s offline discussion with a colleague. I requested a Senior Manager intervention. I am still waiting.

Re: Incorrect charging - Broadband Subscription Pricing

Gandalf — Tue, 12 Apr 2022 11:49:11 GMT

Hi there,

I'm really sorry to see what has happened.

Can you private message me your account usernames so I can take a closer look for you?

Re: Incorrect charging - Broadband Subscription Pricing

MisterW — Tue, 12 Apr 2022 11:49:55 GMT

The reason for the 3 entries for each item is that the March 31 CPI+ price increase happened part way through your billing cycle.

Understanding that you pay a month in advance then the 3 entries for each item represent:-

1) a refund of the last months charge for the period 31 March to current billing date

2) the increased charge for the period 31 March to current billing date

3) the new charge for the next month

A similar mechanism is applied for discounts :-

1) a refund of the last months discount for the period 31 March to current billing date ( which actually becomes a charge! )

2) the increased discount for the period 31 March to current billing date

3) the new discount going forward

Agreed , it looks strange but hopefully that explains how its done

Re: Incorrect charging - Broadband Subscription Pricing

corringham — Tue, 12 Apr 2022 12:30:30 GMT

Thanks for the explanation. However, the prices went UP. So the period before the rise should be charged at the old (cheaper) rate.

According to the member centre dashboard, the new price for line rental is £23.19, but the total of the 3 line rental charges is £23.76 - which is more than the new price, but some of the month was at the old price, so the total should be less than the new price, not more. Similarly for the call package. The total new monthly price is £33.47, but the monthly charges shown on the bill are £34.29. That is then reduced by £2.23 by"the "Incorrect charging - Broadband Subscription Pricing" Adjustment.

So your explanation may be correct, but it is also wrong 😉

To mess around with all these figures and still get it wrong such that it needs an additional adjustment is crazy!

Most companies that change the price mid charging period split the entry into two - pro-rata charge up to the price change date, and pro-rata charge for the period from the price change date. Simples.

I haven't spent the time to calculate whether the total charged is correct or not - I may do at some point if I get bored (I'm not price sensitive enough to be bothered enough otherwise). My point is that the billing system is ludicrously bad. After all these years.

Edit: In any case the £2.23 "Adjustment" may not be to do with the price change, as it has appeared on the previous bill too.

Re: Incorrect charging - Broadband Subscription Pricing

MisterW — Tue, 12 Apr 2022 12:54:54 GMT

No, because you will have paid for the whole previous month at the old price on your last bill. The new price started on th 31st March, so say your billing date is the 6th of the month, you need to pay for the period from the 31st March to 6th April at the new price. So the bill on the 6th is for a whole month at the new price plus the increase in price for the 31st to 6th and so will be slightly more than a month at the new price.

Most companies that change the price mid charging period split the entry into two - pro-rata charge up to the price change date, and pro-rata charge for the period from the price change date. Simples.

That will only work if you pay in arrears, most ISP's including PlusNet charge in advance. Unless, of course, you are happy to be charged for the price increase before the date of the actual increase!

Re: Incorrect charging - Broadband Subscription Pricing

corringham — Tue, 12 Apr 2022 13:09:24 GMT

Hmm, is there any way to make the billing more opaque?

If only Plusnet had known that the prices were going up on 31st March they could have adjusted the bill that covered that period, rather than adjusting it retrospectively in the next period.

If you are charged for the coming month then I think you should be charged the amount due for that month, not some other month.

Re: Incorrect charging - Broadband Subscription Pricing

corringham — Tue, 12 Apr 2022 13:55:24 GMT

OK, I have now figured out where the £2.23 adjustment comes from.

The contract price for line rental was £18.99 (in the confirmation e-mail) but the price on every bill since has been £21.22. So every month I get an e-mail saying "Good news, you're due a credit", and then there's an adjustment on the bill for £2.23. Presumably, now that the price has increased, the monthly adjustment will increase by the same percentage (otherwise my line rental will have increased by more than the increase percentage).

Except that the adjustment wasn't adjusted on the latest bill so that will presumably need another adjustment. So to answer my own question "is there any way to make the billing more opaque?", the answer is probably yes!

Re: Incorrect charging - Broadband Subscription Pricing

MisterW — Tue, 12 Apr 2022 13:56:25 GMT

If only Plusnet had known that the prices were going up on 31st March they could have adjusted the bill that covered that period, rather than adjusting it retrospectively in the next period.

Yes, you would have thought that was simpler. One would assume there is a reason it's done how it is...

Re: Incorrect charging - Broadband Subscription Pricing

Grainger — Thu, 14 Apr 2022 05:29:10 GMT

Gandalf

My frustration with Plusnet right now is it’s dysfunctional billing which prevents me from understanding what I owe each month in relation to prices already agreed or set in relation to an Annual Price List. My monthly list is very simple indeed: Unlimited Fibre Extra, Anytime unlimited Phone package to fixed and mobile, and Line Rental on which the annual purchase option has ofcourse been rescinded. I accept that the contractual price increase formula overlays everything wef 30 Mar. Also, I regret that Plusnet introduced a further complication by a mistake of their own making in the Broadband Charge.

I have so far failed to connect the items in my recent bills to recognisable amounts. The totals in my last 3 monthly bills appear unstable, certainly compared to last year when billing from month to month was stable and the amounts recognisable and expected. But recently, monthly components and discounts have been jumping about without a clear basis or price list.

It would plainly be irrational to end a contract which otherwise offers satisfactory technical performance, on account of its accountancy foibles, yet I feel myself driven towards that exit, partly because of Plusnet’s intransigence eg failure to connect to a supervisor when the phone assistant was clearly out of depth, and due to the frustrations I experienced with the company back in 2019 and early 2020.

If you think it would help bring closure and a satisfactory resolution of all differences you are welcome to look at my history under username [Removed] up to 2019, then [Removed]. My ideal would be to get a settlement based on the terms applied to a new customer for the components listed above.

Regards

Grainger Davies

Moderators Note: Personal information removed

Re: Incorrect charging - Broadband Subscription Pricing

Townman — Thu, 14 Apr 2022 11:41:01 GMT

@corringham wrote:

Hmm, is there any way to make the billing more opaque?

If only Plusnet had known that the prices were going up on 31st March they could have adjusted the bill that covered that period, rather than adjusting it retrospectively in the next period.

Yes, simply apply increases from the next billing date, rather than on a specific date in between billing dates. Thereby there is no need for confusing adjustments. The increase wording can then simply be - "Prices will increase from the next billing date on or following 1st March".

There is no tidy way of adjusting bills where there is a change in charges part way through the billing period, making the adjustment in advance or in arrears is messy - though doing so in advance is less messy!!

Re: Incorrect charging - Broadband Subscription Pricing

jayef — Fri, 29 Apr 2022 11:39:52 GMT

I realise that the CPI + 3.9% (?) was in our contracts.But the current increase is surely way out of line with any reasonably justified amount. And (virtually) ALL the providers have amazingly come up with the same formula - is that not at least worthy of investigation by the CMA/OFCOM - cartels are illegal in the UK. Or were these increase authorised by the CMA/OFCOM. Why is the increase not just CPI ... where does the +3.9% come from???

Anyway given the size of the increase would it not have been fairer of Plusnet just to apply the new prices from our next bill rather than squeezing every last penny out of us via this correct but exceptionally confusing billing process,

But my basic question is how have these well over inflation price rises (which will be compounded) been authorised. I've missed something somewhere have I? There is an 81 page OFCOM document which rabbits on about fair pricing for out of contract customers and then this slips through for in contract customers!!

Not just me is it????

Re: Incorrect charging - Broadband Subscription Pricing

Townman — Fri, 29 Apr 2022 17:13:08 GMT

You ask a number of interesting questions. Given that all prices are largely the same you can’t conclude one of two things - either the monopoly supplier BT Openreach / Wholesale has jacked the price up the same to all ISP/CPs or the price increase is Ofcom inspired.

As for how the increase has been implemented whilst I see merits in applying increases on the next billing date, I can see some users complaining that they get hit with increases on 31st March whilst others get away without increases into 30th April. One can just hear the “it’s not fair” outrages!!!

Then there is the read on for above inflation increases - I suspect you can blame Ofcom in part. ISPs being expected to fund compensation for BT Openreach’s failures out of their own pocket will need to be funded from somewhere. The pockets of the other users.

Want someone to blame - look at Ofcom - look at BT Openreach.

Re: Incorrect charging - Broadband Subscription Pricing

Townman — Fri, 29 Apr 2022 20:39:27 GMT

The above shoujd have been … you CAN conclude …

Re: Incorrect charging - Broadband Subscription Pricing

Townman — Sat, 30 Apr 2022 10:08:58 GMT

Grrr - so dislike not being able to edit typos...

"Then there is the read on for above inflation increases..." should read "Then there is the reason for above inflation increases"