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Browsing through treacle again

« Reply #16 on 09/10/2009, 14:08 »
Any news on this problem yet Bob?

Regards
Mike

Have raised an internal problem so we can get some investigation underway (ref: 58439).

Not convinced it's a DNS issue especially in light of Steve's comments and some of the traceroute which seem to be timing out at the hop where the traffic management switches are. We did a quick health check on these yesterday and couldn't spot anything glaringly obvious but I guess we may have missed something.

There seems to be a few too many reports of problems here for something not to be wrong Sad

  • Jameseh
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« Reply #17 on 09/10/2009, 14:12 »
Not seen any complaints for about a week, Mike.
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« Reply #18 on 10/10/2009, 01:23 »
Well, that can soon be rectified if you so wish Tongue but TBH, I'd just about given up as it seems to be a sad fact of life now that evening performance is most often way more than a bit grim Sad

I've not noticed any particularly obvious DNS looking probs this week but browsing certainly has been difficult at certain times and particularly so on certain sites. PN internal ftp has been somewhat less than good or reliable at various times as well. eBay for instance has been virtually unusable again every single evening this week. The typical average DL speed I'm getting when browsing eBay is around 5KB/s at best which, to put it quite mildly, is absolutely [insert random expletive here] ridiculous.

Now, don't anyone suggest that it's probably an eBay server problem or suchlike because I'm reasonably sure there would be shedloads of peeps complaining if everyone in the UK was getting dial-up stylee performance at best. In fact there would be shedloads of PN customers complaining if all PN customers were getting this level of (non) performance for that matter. But it has to be PN traffic management related I think and most likely due to the treatment of Akamai traffic in particular on certain A/C types doesn't it ?  I say this because other sites where I've been experiencing quite similar issues often appear to use Akamai somewhere along the way.

I have no idea how correct or even relevant the stats on this page are these days seeing as all references seem to be to A/C names/types that have long since been obsolete. However, "non-interactive" packet loss running at anything up to 20% every evening this week doesn't look good to me esp when considering that all Akamai traffic may well be being quite inappropriately classified as non-interactive regardless of whether it is or is not.

If browsing is to be considered "interactive" then interactive traffic that just so happens to pass via Akamai (or similar) should be classified accordingly rather than presumably clobbering all such traffic quite severely for whatever reason(s) PN may have for trying to do so.

Does anyone honestly believe that browsing at 5KB/s at best is in any way acceptable on a 'n' Mb broadband connection where a significant amount of money is changing hands every month for provision of same ? Nope, thought not !

I don't particularly want to hear reasons why Akamai is a problem or whatever as it's of no concern to me (or indeed anyone else) really. If I'm generally browsing then I don't care how the data is actually routed to me and nor should I have to. If a particular site wants to use bean tins and string or a carrier pigeon rather send stuff direct down the wires then so be it. It's not up to PN to require random websites around the world to only use Heinz bean tins or a certain colour of carrier pigeon or they will to all intents and purposes prevent their customers from using the websites is it ?

Obviously if it's not some weird issue with the classification of Akamai traffic then it's something else entirely but I've absolutely no idea what in that case. The only thing I do know is that it's almost totally unacceptable to routinely have to put up with dial-up stylee performance on a lightly used broadband connection.

Some typical data from the other night just to demonstrate:

Logging into eBay and then browsing to 4 random sites


Browsing to google to find the BT speedtester URL and then running the test


Gateway packet loss at the time


And here's the same logging into eBay and a few random sites just now (no cached data)


Quote
Akamai transparently mirrors content — sometimes all content including HTML and CSS, and sometimes just media objects such as audio, graphics, animation, and video — from customer servers. Though the domain name (but not subdomain) is the same, the IP address points to an Akamai server rather than the customer's server. The Akamai server is automatically picked depending on the type of content and the user's network location.

The benefit is that users can receive content from whichever Akamai server is close to them or has a good connection, leading to faster download times and less vulnerability to network congestion or outages.

Unless you're unfortunate enough to be using a PN connection of course where it will apparently be slowed down very significantly when compared to any 'normal' server in addition to being seriously interrupted so that the average data transfer rate equates to the performance generally expected on a dial-up connection, if indeed it works reliably and consistently at all that is !

This or no doubt similar unwarranted management perhaps also explains other things like the problems I have seen fairly regularly with youtube in the past as well as with content from  AD houses various etc.  Very poor, very erratic and very inconsistent download speeds plus content delivery often giving up part way through or generally screwing up, all of which leads to an overall extremely poor browsing experience in general.

« Last Edit: 10/10/2009, 03:35 by mikeb »

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« Reply #19 on 10/10/2009, 13:39 »
I have to say that PN's performance is starting to get beyond a joke. There seems to be no point in raising it as an issue because time and time again we get PN saying there isn't anything wrong when there obviously is, especially when it comes to the prioritisation of traffic from Akamai servers.

Right now most things seem to be working OK but early evening it just jams up and I am seriously concerned about PNs ability to handle the football match this evening
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« Reply #20 on 10/10/2009, 14:27 »
Well, slightly different story here. Right now on my connection I can't even get onto eBay at all for instance as none of the relevant pages will load fully.  It would very much appear that every single time an Akamai server is being used for something, everything immediately grinds to a complete halt.  After numerous first attempts and many page refreshes, It's been several minutes now and I still can't get the login page displayed sufficiently or correctly enough that I can actually use it.  There's something very odd going on with Akamai traffic Sad

I'm not into footy so don't know when it's supposed to be on but there's not something on around now is there ?

Edit: And now it's sort of OK again, not exactly good but mostly working albeit kinda slowly Roll Eyes I think it's time to give up here and wander off to check out the real world for a bit !

« Last Edit: 10/10/2009, 14:41 by mikeb »

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« Reply #21 on 10/10/2009, 15:51 »
Oddly enough Mikeb, my wife asked just the same question "what time is that match on because everything is really slow"
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« Reply #22 on 10/10/2009, 16:12 »
Free-online member since 15 Dec 1998
You dont have to be mad to understand what PN are up to, but it helps
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« Reply #23 on 10/10/2009, 16:38 »
I'd already found out it was on later but that beggars the question as to what was going on earlier this afternoon.
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  • Chris
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« Reply #24 on 10/10/2009, 17:45 »
The slowdowns earlier this afternoon could have been caused by the outage at an ATM node in Manchester. Although we were told it would stop customers connecting, it may have had impact on traffic too.
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« Reply #25 on 12/10/2009, 18:15 »
Absolutely diabolical here at the moment, very like wading through treacle  Huh?

Tracing route to portal.plus.net [212.159.9.2]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1     1 ms     1 ms     1 ms  192.168.0.1
  2    24 ms    24 ms    25 ms  lo0-plusnet.pcl-ag03.plus.net [195.166.128.109]

  3     *     1570 ms   341 ms  gi1-6-703.pcl-gw01.plus.net [84.92.0.181]
  4   351 ms   360 ms   293 ms  te2-2.pte-gw1.plus.net [212.159.0.186]
  5   124 ms   160 ms    99 ms  te2-4.pte-gw2.plus.net [212.159.1.102]
  6   150 ms   253 ms   432 ms  92.core.plus.net [212.159.1.92]
  7    32 ms    29 ms    94 ms  fhw-lb04.plus.net [212.159.1.146]
  8     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  9     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 10     *      733 ms    30 ms  portal.plus.net [212.159.9.2]

Trace complete.

Took me several minutes just to get onto this forum!

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« Reply #26 on 12/10/2009, 20:26 »
Images from newsimg.bbc.co.uk coming in very slowly.

traceroute is fine but as we all know the bbc news image servers are on akamai

traceroute to newsimg.bbc.co.uk (213.155.157.43), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets
 1  192.168.0.66 (192.168.0.66)  90.798 ms  89.095 ms  87.379 ms
 2  lo0-plusnet.pcl-ag02.plus.net (195.166.128.39)  55.952 ms  67.994 ms  68.124 ms
 3  gi1-2-904.pcl-gw02.plus.net (84.92.0.141)  68.210 ms  68.325 ms  68.519 ms
 4  te2-1.pcl-gw01.plus.net (212.159.1.113)  68.690 ms  68.843 ms  69.146 ms
 5  xe-1-2-0-0.lon20.ip4.tinet.net (213.200.79.233)  69.228 ms  69.381 ms  69.585 ms
 6  213.200.78.238 (213.200.78.238)  69.683 ms  38.781 ms  65.874 ms
 7  213.155.157.43 (213.155.157.43)  67.488 ms  67.567 ms  67.562 ms

Line speed is OK:



I don't consider 15.8 seconds to load http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/h...thern_ireland/default.stm really acceptable for that connection speed.

I do have a trace if people are interested

BBC iPlayer diagnostics basically suggest I don't try to use it as it thinks my streaming speed is 1516 kbps

« Last Edit: 12/10/2009, 20:34 by SteveA »

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« Reply #27 on 12/10/2009, 20:50 »
I think I might as well give up and go to bed:

http://www.thisisgloucestershire.co.uk/

took (according to Wireshark) 113 seconds to load.

traceroute to www.thisisgloucestershire.co.uk (213.155.157.11), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets
 1  192.168.0.66 (192.168.0.66)  43.844 ms  42.186 ms  40.532 ms
 2  lo0-plusnet.pcl-ag02.plus.net (195.166.128.39)  59.446 ms  61.132 ms  66.173 ms
 3  gi1-2-904.pcl-gw02.plus.net (84.92.0.141)  66.397 ms  66.546 ms  66.754 ms
 4  te2-1.pcl-gw01.plus.net (212.159.1.113)  66.968 ms  67.140 ms  67.682 ms
 5  xe-1-2-0-0.lon20.ip4.tinet.net (213.200.79.233)  69.777 ms  72.426 ms  72.612 ms
 6  213.200.78.238 (213.200.78.238)  72.766 ms  74.478 ms  74.448 ms
 7  213.155.157.11 (213.155.157.11)  34.533 ms  37.575 ms  39.099 ms


And yes, its Akamai again.

« Last Edit: 12/10/2009, 20:52 by SteveA »

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  • Oldjim
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« Reply #28 on 12/10/2009, 20:52 »
I am getting the same problem on http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/ yet speed tests and tracert don't show anything
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« Reply #29 on 12/10/2009, 20:56 »
my traceroute to www.timesonline.co.uk just times out all over the place but its IP address is shown as 88.221.190.216 which is Akamai ..... again!
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  • Oldjim
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« Reply #30 on 12/10/2009, 21:20 »
Agh - it's probably all the pictures
Jurassic Coast
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« Reply #31 on 12/10/2009, 21:25 »
Its the images that are the problem on the BBC and its a lot of the content on my local newspaper site, and the facebook content delivery network... all of which are hosted by Akamai
Now it might be that the akamai servers are overloaded or is it actually something wrong within PNs traffic management?

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