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BT Engineer visit

maranello
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Registered: ‎11-01-2008

BT Engineer visit

The CSC are recommending and in the process of arranging a visit by a BT Engineer to check out my broadband connection, which has been plagued by intermittent problems.
I would like to make sure that the Engineer is made aware that the fault is intermittent, so that if on the day he arrives there is no apparent problem he does not simply log a 'no fault found' report, but instead checks all the connections thoroughly.
When the CSC arrange the appointment will they inform BT that I have gone through all the checks to eliminate my internal wiring and hardware as the cause, and that the fault is intermittent, or will it be up to me to convince the Engineer when he arrives that there is no problem on my side of the master socket?
Should I reconnect the bell wire before the engineer arrives?
Should I re-instate the original master socket faceplate which I have replaced with a filtered faceplate?
Any advice would be much appreciated.
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43 REPLIES 43
Wheel_nut
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Re: BT Engineer visit

I would suggest that you leave your Router and handset connected to a Microfilter plugged into the TEST SOCKET on the Master Plate. This eliminates all of your internal wiring which is not owned by BT. There is no need to reconnect the Bell Wire as this only exists on your side of the BT Faceplate.
The BT man will test the line for loop impedance and attenuation and will also be able to detect leakage due to water ingress at the junctions. With the advent of Broadband, BT have recognisrd that there are problems caused by the junctions between Aluminium cables used in the 70s and the copper network. They now use pre-lubricated crimps (I think the new ones are white whereas the old ones were blue) and will re-make the joints at the post and the cabinet if necessary.
I have found that the best way to get BT to fix the line is to keep complaining of noise on the (voice) line. I finally got my problems fixed after the fourth call-out after which they replaced a section of overgead line which had been scuffed by contact with trees and was then wicking water into the junction box at the pole. 
maranello
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Re: BT Engineer visit

Thanks for the advice Wheel_nut.
As BT are not my phone provider, I can't keep reporting a voice line fault, and I'm currently in the process of switching to PN anyway. I do occasionally get noise during phone calls, which I have always attributed to using a cordless phone, so something to consider doing if I don't get any improvement after the engineer has plugged in his magic toys and climbed up telegraph poles.
Just waiting now for PN to give me a date for the engineer visit!
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godsell4
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Re: BT Engineer visit

Quote from: maranello
... which I have always attributed to using a cordless phone ...

Do you know if this is an old analog device (it will have short stubby ariel poking out the top it it is) or a new digital version (it may be labelled as DECT)?
The analog type can suffer from noise/interference problems, whereas the DECT one should be interference free.
SW.
--
3Mb FTTC
https://portal.plus.net/my.html?action=data_transfer_speed
maranello
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Re: BT Engineer visit

It's a digital DECT phone. But the noise is more noticeable when calling my parents, who use an old BT phone whith one of those pull-out extending aerials
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Wheel_nut
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Re: BT Engineer visit

Quote from: maranello
As BT are not my phone provider, I can't keep reporting a voice line fault, and I'm currently in the process of switching to PN anyway. I do occasionally get noise during phone calls, which I have always attributed to using a cordless phone, ....

Irrespective of who you pay Line Rental to, it is BT Openreach who service the Line. Some of their technicians are better than others at diagnosing faults and I hope you are lucky with the one you get.
I am about 2.5KM from my exchange and my sync speed is 7,648 at worst, now that they have fixed the line. Previously, I was lucky if I got over 3000.
The source of the noise on your calls to your parents is almost certainly their cordless analogue phones. Get them a good DECT set for Christmas  Smiley
MauriceC
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Re: BT Engineer visit

Have you tried replacing the Router?  Borrow one from a friend if you don't have a spare.
Sound odd?  Well yes - but!  I had a long lasting problem (months!) with poor line performance, frequent line drops, occasional noise on the line.  Last week when I detected noise on the phone during a failure period, I removed the phone cable from the router - noise went!  Repeatable with cable insert / remove,  suggesting the 'noise' was being generated by the modem part of the Router.
Anyway, replaced the Router with a borrowed spare and ALL the problems disappeared.  Service back to normal.
It's a long shot, but worth a try.
Maurice

Superusers are not staff, but they do have a direct line of communication into the business in order to raise issues, concerns and feedback from the community.

Wheel_nut
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Re: BT Engineer visit

MauriceC,
Good advice but not a conclusive test. I have seen cases of noise on the Voice line which disappears when the modem was disconnected, which was caused by a line impedance problem.
That said, it is good advive to check this before the BT man arrives. The BT man will test the line with his own Modem / Router anyway.
prichardson
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Re: BT Engineer visit

Provided we (Plusnet) have raised the fault correctly to BT using report code DCN (Dropping Connection), then then engineer should be aware of this.
However as much as we would like to say this is 100% correct, experience says otherwise. I'll add this is something that is with our account manager now as it has been our belief for a very long time that engineers received very little notes to investigate (especially proven when they don't get notes from, or are never aware of a prior engineer visiting).
The engineer even armed with the correct set of information, will not know that you have completed all appropriate testing.
However, the SFI product (engineers are a product sold to providers, hence the charges) is provided with a "best practice" guide. This basically states that as they are tasked mainly to prove the problem is not to the BT network, that all approriate checks are undertaken by the customer prior to tasking one.
They are not there to resolve internal problems, but work in a reverse way to a customers testing the internal elements, by doing tests that show the service operates normally the test socket. In otherwords to the limit of the their control at the customer property.
As this is an intermittent issue you have, we ask and for that matter, hope every engineer will remain for the full 2 hour window they are tasked to monitor the connection. Something that is clearly required when a drop may not be seen in a 20 minute test.
In general if the engineer says he cannot find a problem, describe the steps you have taken and request details on exactly how long he did a constant check for. If he can't see an issues and wants to leave before two hours are out, please phone support and we can try contacting via BT directly to find out why he wants to leave.
We had one recently who claimed the ISP had only paid for 20 minutes of his time and quickly found he was receiving a call from him manager reminding him his 2x 5 minutes tests were not sufficient.
Pancho
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Registered: ‎16-10-2007

Re: BT Engineer visit

I was looking at faceplates a while ago and the vendor advised not to change the master box as this belongs to BT. "Any BT engineer will be 'really upset' to find somebody has been messing with their property" is on their web page. Even the informative reply from Plus did not mention this. Change back to the original master box would be the safest. Would Plus care to comment about this as I am sure it will come up again.
maranello
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Re: BT Engineer visit

Thanks for all the advice guys, particularly the comprehensive response from Phil Richardson at Plusnet. Sorry I haven't had time to respond until now.
The BT Engineer arrived yesterday morning, as expected following notification from Plusnet CSC. In preparation, I had unscrewed the ADSLnation filtered faceplate and had the router plugged in via a filter directly into the test socket. On Saturday, the connection was up and down and my sync rate had dropped such that my profile was reduced from 1250kbps to 350kbps. On Sunday the connection was stable with a sync rate of 1648!
The BT Engineer did the quiet line test and plugged in his laptop, but the connection was behaving itself throughout the testing period. Confirmed that I have a long line (4.1km) and that I shouldn't expect much better than 1Mbps. However, he was sympathetic to the fact that the problems I have been having were intermittent. He replaced my filtered faceplate with an Openreach branded version, and switched my line from the cabinet to the exchange to an alternate line.
So far, using the D-Link router loaned from Plusnet, my connection has been stable at 1600kbps for over 18 hours. Line attenuation has dropped from 63.5dB to 62dB, not a great difference but in the right direction at least. Noise margin has varied from ~12dB to 5.6dB, the lower figure occured when a voice call was made, but the connection did not drop as has happened before.
@Pancho - if your master socket is the one with the removable lower half of the faceplate, then you can replace this faceplate with a filtered one. You should not attempt to replace the master box.
@P_Richardson - even though the engineer did not find a fault on my line, he only spent half an hour monitoring the connection on his laptop before going off to the cabinet to change my line to the exchange. Would I be right in assuming that this is an alternative approach to a thorough check of all connections, which would mean that there would be no justification for a 'no fault found' charge being levied? I'm also surprised that he fitted a replacement filtered faceplate.
@MauriceC - as hinted at above, I had tried an alternate router, using one sent on loan from Plusnet for testing purposes. This did not cure the intermittent resync events I had been experiencing with my Voyager.
@Wheel_nut - thanks for the Xmas present idea - I never know what to get them!
I intend to monitor the line performance over the next few days, but keeping fingers crossed that the changes made by the engineer have as a minimum improved the stability of my line.
Thanks to everyone at Plusnet CSC who have been keeping me informed of progress with my fault ticket.
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zubel
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Re: BT Engineer visit

The change in attenuation from 63.5 to 62dB can make all the difference!
I also find that liberally greasing the wheels of motion with cups of tea and biscuits is always a good way to get a sympathetic ear Wink
It does sound like the engineer did at least try to resolve your problems and I hope what he has done will be successful.  Only time will tell Smiley
B.
maranello
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Re: BT Engineer visit


Now been running 42 hours without a dropped connection - so this is what proper broadband is like! Sync rate of 1600kbps, and my profile has been increased from 350kbps to 1250kbps (in less than 3 days).
I'm tempted to leave well alone now, but I'm using the D-Link router on loan from Plusnet. I can keep it if I agree to stay with Plusnet for a further 12 months (as if I would want to move now), but I thought I would try out my Voyager whilst things are looking stable so that I'll know in the future that I have a spare working router. The D-Link runs much cooler than the Voyager, and in earlier monitoring seemed to hang on to the connection with a lower noise margin.
I do need to upgrade the firmware on the D-Link, as after 24 hours or so the loading of router management pages gets slower until it gives up and fails to find the pages altogether. The connection stays up and I can still browse other sites. The last time I tried to upgrade firmware on the Voyager I managed to revert to an earlier version than already installed. Can anyone advise me how to upgrade the firmware on the D-Link, or how to restore the later version on the Voyager?
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puddy
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Re: BT Engineer visit

Quote from: maranello
But the noise is more noticeable when calling my parents, who use an old BT phone whith one of those pull-out extending aerials

I cannot belive plusnet did not advise you that all old style cordless phones have interferance problems.  I bet if your parents upgrade to the new style DECT cordless your phone calls to them will be perfect  I just hope your not billed for the engineer visit
puddy
maranello
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Re: BT Engineer visit


The issue of my parents' phone is a bit of a distraction as the BT Engineer visit is to rectify an intermittent broadband fault. The sometimes poor quality of the voice line has only been discussed to add weight to the fault. When the fault is intermittent and an Engineer is being called, I need as much evidence as I can gather to avoid the call-out charge!
I have managed to upgrade the firmware on the D-Link router on loan from Plusnet (I hope they don't mind!) from version 1.0 UK to 1.10 UK. This corrects a problem where the router 'loses' the IP address and prevents access to the router configuration management where stats and logs are available. All that was needed was to download from the D-Link site a zipped folder, and remember to unzip before attempting (three times  :-[) to update the firmware. This meant that I was able to monitor the connection for over three days without having to manually reboot, and gave me almost trouble free, stable connection at 1600kbps :).
Understandably, Plusnet want their router back and I have reverted to the Voyager. This has also performed better than before the Engineer visit, although there was a resync at around 9.00pm last night which dropped the sync rate from ~1400kbps to 224kbps.  Sad
I will wait until it warms up to see if it reproduces its record of 28 resyncs in 24 hours.
My fault ticket on this includes brief details which suggest that the BT Engineer replaced my master socket with a more up-to-date one. I don't believe this is accurate, as I only saw him replace my filtered faceplate and not the master socket box, but I wasn't continuously watching what he was up to. There is no mention on the ticket of any changes to the line or checks of connections. He didn't look into the junction box on the wall outside or climb any telegraph poles.
All the evidence points to an improvement as a result of the Engineer visit, and any remaining instability, albeit less frequent, I may just have to put up with, as I have a 4.1km line (according to the stats on the Engineer's laptop). My target noise margin seems to be at 12dB, as this is what the router stats report soon after rebooting, and apart from asking Plusnet I don't know how else I can get confirmation.
My other car isn't a Ferrari