I have read through this post with interest. As P Richardson has said, you are only connected approx 19% of the time, which may lead us to beleive that you switch your router/modem off alot, and BT being the way they are, may see this as line instability. This may be confirmed that whilst your attenuation is 41dB your SNR is very high at 18dB, for that line attenuation. For comparison, my attn is 41dB, and with a SNR of 6dB ( Max default), I get a sync of 6096, and a throughput of 5Mb. I am connected directly into the master socket, via a filtered faceplate. May have missed this, but are you using a router or modem. Routers are better for Max, and can be quite safely left on most of the time. If you have a router, not sure if this is possible, but you could ask either for a reduction in SNR, or ask Plus if your line can be retrained. As godsell has mentioned, you need to be as helpful as possible, I am sure this can be resolved, as your line should be capable of speeds such as mine, particularly if your exchange is green. If Plus cannot reduce your target SNR, then  you must leave your router on for at least 14days, at a constant sync for it to come down. I realise this is a royal pain in the proverbial, but its how Max is, and we all have to put up with it, no matter now annoying it is. This would be the same with any other ISP.  Hope this helps.

BTW, if you remain at this sync for 3 days, your profile should raise to 3000, and so throughout would be around 2500-2700, depending upon overhead, and contention. Have you looked  at Kitz site, on how Max works www.kitz.co.uk??

Yes it should be free BT terms and condition below

Per line - where there is someone in the household who is disabled as defined by the Disability Discrimination Act i.e. someone with a physical or mental impairment which has a substantial and long-term adverse effect on their ability to carry out normal day to day activities

puddy

Penfold:

I'm afraid that SNR and attenuation are over my head, but I'll look at the Kitz site again, thanks.

I use a Voyager 105 modem. I've got a Netgear router, but after several hours of trying to install it, gave up, so its been in the box for a few months. Anyway, using that now would not be comparing apples with apples!

I would say that on a weekday, I boot up the laptop once a day, although it may go into sleep mode and require another start. Weekends probably gets started 6 times for the same reason.

As I mentioned earlier, I have been told on numerous occasions by PN support to keep re-booting. Now they are saying its a bad thing - hence my confusion.

I hoped they would have improved!

I fixed my problem by calling 150 and their had been a fault on the line dating back 4 months they fixed it in 30 seconds I now get the full 8mg at times

Could somebody at Plusnet call BT to check thier are no voice faults on the line as part of the investgations in low speed problems. It could save money and staffing I know it wont help on all occasions just a thought!

puddy

Thanks Puddy, its nice to know some people read old messages in posts.

Routers should be kept on all the time.

 mines on 24/7.  

Your making the problem worse keep switching on and off all the time. so leave it on

puddy

If I've understood this correctly then, despite the fact that my speed has dropped from a constant 4.5, to 1.9 at times now, there is actually no fault in BT/PN eyes. The fault is in my imagination, and I only "perceive" that there is a fault, which in reality is a "red-herring"  Consequently, I need to be "re-educated".

That's all right then.

I use a modem at the moment - couldn't get the router to work - see post above.

what router do you have 430?  If its a DG834, then all you need to do, is plug it in, connect to the PC via an RJ45 network cable. Type 192.168.0.1 ( think this is it), into a browser address bar. The login page should appear, defaults are usually administrator, and password either password or blank. Then all you need to do, is enter the plusnet login details into the appropriate screens, usually <username>@plusdsl.net, and your account password. make sure you are using PPPoA. This shluld then allow the router to connect to the internet. If this works, then leave it on. If the above does not work, ive probably got it a bit wrong, been a while since I used a netgear router. If I have I am sure someone else will help.  When plus ask you to reboot, most of the time you just need to disconnect the connection to plus, not reboot the whole router, but you cant do this with a modem, and in reality modems are not the best for MAX dsl.  Hope this helps.

It is. I will give  it another go, but I did spend several hours trying, before giving up. What I don't understand is, you need to connect to the web to set it up, but you can't connect before its set-up!

I did follow the instructions, but I couldn't do it.

Thanks.

430
When you type in the IP address to your browser you are not connecting to the internet, you are connecting to your router via a web type window. You will be asked for a username (which is admin) and a password (which is normally 'password'). You'll need to change the password later obviously or anyone can logon. Anyway you'll then be able to setup your details. Oh and believe me I'm no techie, if I can do it etc.....

the following is based on a DG834G.

once you have logged in to your router, you will need to select "basic settings" from the left hand menu. You can then fill in the following.

Does your internet connection require a login?
yes

encapsulation
PPPoA(PPP over ATM)

login
username@plusdsl.net

password
your password

Internet IP address
get dynamically from ISP

Domain name server address (DNS)
get automatically from ISP

Hit Apply

then select ADSL setings in the left hand menu

make sure multiplexing method is VC based
VPI is 0
VCI is 38

Hit Apply

Then hit the Test button to try these settings (or you could switch the router off / on)

hopefully this should get you going.  if it is a wireless router you will also need to make some changes to lock it down, if this is the case just ask if you need help.

Hi Puddy, unfortunately no we can't do this for two reasons. One is that we're not calling from the line with the fault (I realise this isn't essential but does help) and the other, and main reason is that BT will only deal with the account holders of the line.

430, many thanks for persevering with this and with us, and please let us know if there's anything further we can do to help.

So should I keep re-booting or not?


Thanks for the help Penfold, Terminal and Moggy - I will have another go at installation of the router.

Now that's just looking at things the wrong way, though I do suspect I may have been able to explain this more.

There are many ways to skin a cat, the end result is always the same, a skinned cat (eww).

Prior to the BT takeover, we took an approach to faults which we have carried on since.

We have removed redundant processes and we have added others, were the product and features dictate, systems change or we identify improvements.

Were you already utilise all systems at your disposal, the only way to improve is to identify were we fail, which we already do and I already have some items from this posting to feed back.


Nope, that's just twisting matters.

Lets look at the facts.

Public data is available for your line along with line statistics, historical information and all other data that we have access to, without asking yourself as the customer for information such as your cabling setup to verify this is ADSL compatible.

This information shows your line capable of supporting speeds of upto 2.5mbps.

As many people see this as a figure from the wild, we take all other data available to us and determine how accurate it is and ensure that there is nothing to suggest that it is incorrect.

There is nothing within that data to suggest it is inaccurate.

So, we look at your line historically to see how it has performed in the past. This data agrees with your to show that your line operated at 4.5mbps for some time.

However there is nothing to agree that your line was designed for this speed. This does not override all other data and we have to make our decisions and recommendations based on this.

The product is only designed to provide so much. In some rare instances such as your own, the line can and will operate at faster speeds than is recommended.

Customer need to recognise that these speeds can and in some cases, will reduce.

We will in every case look at the facts of each case. In this case they just do not add up to anything that is a problem with the service.


As the account holder, this would be upto the customer to perform. If we provide the WLR (Home Phone) service, we will perform a line test.

Often this is not required though.

Broadband Diagnostics provides a Copper Line test (it is this test which will cause a customer to disconnect each time we test a line).

This is a miniature version of a voice line test. It is not the most extensive one, as for legal reasons it cannot done some of the more intrusive tests.

As noted, I have already performed all the testing that we have access too. This has included the copper line check and none of them have shown a problem.

We will in some rare instances, call 150 for the customer and raise a fault. This is however only were we know a voice fault exists and they are declining to assist.

We only do this as we know they have effectively lied to a customer. We won't do this in all other cases because of a little something called TRC (Time Related Charges). These are the Voice line equivalent of the £144+vat engineer charges, but can be a lot more.

As we cannot agree to these on the customer behalf, we wont do this.

In regards to this whole issue, I'm going to do what you want. I am going to change how I look at this. Instead of provide our recommendations which is that there is no fault and this is simply the design of the product, I am going to let 430 dictate what we should do.

Please know this before you take me up on this:

1: Your line stats show your line is operating at normal levels.
2: Public data shows it is also working at normal levels
3: Your previous speeds of 4.5mbps were above what was found to be "normal levels" for your service and whilst they may be a "nice to have", are not guaranteed.

From our recommendations know this:

1: We have performed line tests that have shown no faults on either the copper line or the exchange equipment (the two elements that dictate speed, other than your own equipment or cabling).
2: Our recommendations are made with the best intentions of the customer possible. Charges can result were we proceed beyond this point.

That said, if you want us to raise this fault to BT, I will do so. I can guarantee that the process will go something like this.

1: We raise a fault to BT
2: BT perform line diagnostics and confirm the findings already presented to you in public, clear the fault back to us as No Fault Found.
3: We send the fault back to them.
4: They perform all diagnostics again and reconfirm all findings already stated here and previously by the BT team. As such, they say the only way forward should you as the customer want it, is to send out an engineer to the property.

When it gets to this stage, any further movement on the fault from BT side will result in charges if no problems are found.

As such, if order for me to proceed with any instruction you may provide, you will have to agree to the charges of (£169.20 - £144+vat).

These charges are applied for the following reasons.

1: If a fault is found to exists with your own equipment. Equipment includes any device you have attached to the phone line such as phones, faxes, modems and filters.

2: The engineer detaches your internal cabling and the problem goes away. This will prove the problem with be with your internal cabling.

3: The engineer comes out and declares the same findings as we have already put before you. That the line is running at optimal levels based on its length and quality.

The charges above are for the engineers time and whilst expensive, he will often do no more than what a alarm engineer or network installer can do for you, which will often be cheaper.

As such, I am happy to go against our recommendations here and give you the choice to proceed.

Let us know if you are happy to accept these charges and we will go ahead for you.

430.

Hope things go Ok for you. I really would persevere with the router, and when connected leave on. Given your SNR of 18, it should be stable enough to leave on. ANother good feature of routers, rather than  modems is they hold onto signal better. I would be inclined to ask Plus to see if they can get BT to reduce your SNR, to maybe 9 or 12dB. This in turn will increase your sync speed, and after 3 days, your throughput. Before Plus send out an engineer, be very sure that there is a fault with your line. I really would  not ask P Richardson to get BT out for you at the min, as I would be very surprised if there is a line fault. On your head be it, but I would persevere with the Router 1st and see how that goes.