Still having outage problems
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Re: Still having outage problems
16-09-2014 12:48 PM
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Re: Still having outage problems
16-09-2014 3:46 PM
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Quote from: MsDizzie However back to the task in hand, one annoying "pest" phone call and I checked for a spike, followed by my test call shows the spikes clearly in the attached graph (RouterStats followed up with a sulk, so have restarted).
Might have to organise for an engineer to come out? Or am I jumping the gun?
Hi,
That was the Tx Noise margin which you posted - we are more interested in the Rx graph. Yes RS does have a gremlin - it can report ZERO when all is actually OK. I have raised the issue with the author a couple of times but as yet there is no update. RS seems to get the router telnet message responses out of synch, with the consequence that the SUMMARY tab contains the wrong data (usually tone bin stats) and thus plots ZEROS for everything. To fix this issue, just click the black stop button followed by the green start button. I have set an alarm condition on Rx synch less than 100kps for 60 seconds - just sound the klaxon - this alerts me to the possibility that RS has stopped logging due to this issue.
Inbound / outbound calls bringing the xDSL down is usually associated with a duff filter. What ever Dan has BTOR on the case for you.
For interest, I have attached a RS plot of the effect of passing West Coast mail line trains from my old business premises. Not all trains caused this just a specific class of Virgin trains!
Kevin
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Re: Still having outage problems
16-09-2014 7:20 PM
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So spikes on the Tx could mean duff filters? I suppose I've got a couple hanging around but don't know if they are duff too. I used the filters supplied with the TG582N, so they are almost 2 years old. I'll probably give those a test tomorrow during the day.
Interesting graph you have there!
Re: Still having outage problems
16-09-2014 11:21 PM
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It is not the Tx spikes which are indicative of a potential filter issue, rather the dropping of ADSL on inbound and outbound calls.
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Re: Still having outage problems
17-09-2014 10:22 AM
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Failing filters can equal getting an ADSL drop from incoming/outgoing calls.
I might've misunderstood drop for ADSL disconnect ie the dreaded red light coming on.
Then my symptoms are as follows:
On incoming/outgoing phone calls I get spikes on TX and a drop in noise on RX (I've exchanged filters and got the same response), I don't appear to get an ADSL disconnect after phone usage.
The ADSL disconnects appear to be totally random.
In fact my latest phone test snapshots shows the spike on TX and just a wee downward blip on the RX. In fact I think I would be well happy if that RX graph was consistent.
Fingers crossed that the BT engineer arrives Thurs morning he/she might have a better idea of figuring out whats going on (I'd better get some biscuits in )
Re: Still having outage problems
17-09-2014 1:14 PM
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Jan 1 00:02:09 xDSL linestate up (ITU-T G.992.5; downstream: 14328 kbit/s, upstream: 888 kbit/s; output Power Down: 20.4 dBm, Up: 12.4 dBm; line Attenuation Down: 28.5 dB, Up: 14.5 dB; snr Margin Down: 7.9 dB, Up: 15.1 dB)
<39> Jan 1 00:02:12 PPP CHAP Receive challenge (rhost = acc-aln1.ots)
Sep 17 12:37:30 xDSL linestate up (ITU-T G.992.1; downstream: 8064 kbit/s, upstream: 1120 kbit/s; output Power Down: 19.8 dBm, Up: 11.2 dBm; line Attenuation Down: 25.5 dB, Up: 15.0 dB; snr Margin Down: 19.4 dB, Up: 8.0 dB)
<39> Sep 17 12:37:35 PPP CHAP Receive challenge (rhost = acc-aln1.ots)
Could this be a sign there is a problem at the exchange?
Re: Still having outage problems
17-09-2014 8:46 PM
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This latest development is darned strange. As I understand things, you cannot go between from ADSL2/2+ to ADSL(1) on a 21CN service without a provisioning change -
The change has crippled the synch speed and uplifted the SNRM. IIRC 8064Mbps is the fastest ADSL(1) will go with interleaving turned on. Interestingly your US is markedly improved.
Thinking about the SNRM graphs - up is an improvement - down indicates and increase in noise. UP = Good / DOWN = Bad.
Hope the engineer finds something in the morning.
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Re: Still having outage problems
18-09-2014 1:12 PM
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Went through the symptoms, even showed him the ADSL2+ to ADSL1 swap from RouterStats, and he's never heard of that happening!
Started the tests. Did "quiet line" test, his equipment decided not to work! Used my phone which was also dead (strange as it had been working a couple of days ago)!! Re-tried his equipment and did work! Phone line clear as a bell. Continued with broadband tests, mentioned a borderline High Resistance failure. Subsequent retests and it didn't reoccur.
Then he checked the cabling. The main BT socket wasn't the main BT socket after all. What I thought was a redundant phone extension socket was instead. This had a label on the inside saying GPO (those were the days). Wires were a bit dodgy but at least he had a direct wired connection for his tests. While testing/talking we had a disconnect! Unfortunately, he didn't get to notice whether it was errors on the line, or what else had caused it.
So... a new faceplate fitted (ADSL Mk2), the "not" main socket replaced by just a phone socket, and also replaced the extension socket where my router sits converted to being a broadband only extension socket thats hard-wired into the main socket (cat 5 cable was already in situ). No more dangly filters.
Once this was completed... he went off to check out and clean the external connections.
Reckons I could get 16MB on this line! I'm more for stability, than maxing out the speed at the moment.
All in this took around 3 hrs. However, he wasn't 100% that the problem has been fixed. I'll continue to monitor the patient. Internally speaking, the next thing to replace would be the router, before going near the exchange and swapping lines.
Re: Still having outage problems
21-09-2014 10:53 AM
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Can you please post some up to date router stats? Also keep the SNRM plotting going - we still need to see if there is REIN from other sources.
Kevin
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Re: Still having outage problems
21-09-2014 11:49 AM
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There's a bit of a nightmare in the first couple of hours so I've put the Rx and Tx Noise Margin files first (yes I know we're not interested in Tx Noise Margin but I've added because its "interesting").
Re: Still having outage problems
21-09-2014 12:00 PM
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xdsl info expand=enabled
Physical Layer Statistics:
Modem state: up
Up time (Days hh:mm:ss): 2 days, 23:37:26
xDSL Standard: ITU-T G.992.5
xDSL Annex: Annex A
Channel Mode: Interleaved
Number of reset: 7
Chipset Vendor info (G.994.1): Local Remote
Country code: B500 B500
ID: BDCM IFTN
Specific: 0000 71C8
System Vendor info (showtime): Local Remote
Country code: 0F00 0000
ID: TMMB ----
Specific: 3C61 0000
Bearers generic info DS US
Payload rate [Kbps]: 14328 888
Attenuation [dB]: 28.0 14.3
Margins [dB]: 10.0 16.3
Output power [dBm]: 0.0 12.4
Number of bearers: 1
Bearer 0 DS US
INP [DMT symbols]: 2.90 2.00
Delay [ms]: 6.70 8.00
Depth []: 416 0.00
R: 8 0
G.997.1 Statistics (Current):
Failures:
Line failures Near end
Loss of signal (LOS): 7
Loss of frame (LOF): 60
Loss of power (LPR): 0
Performance monitoring:
Line PM: Near end
Error second (ES): 106
Channel PM: Near end Far end
Bearer 0:
Code Violation (CV): 22 3
FEC: 170673 985
ATM data path PM: Near end Far end
Bearer 0:
HEC violation count (HEC): 344 N/A
G.997.1 Statistics (last 15 minutes):
Failures:
Line failures Near end
Loss of signal (LOS): 0
Loss of frame (LOF): 0
Loss of power (LPR): 0
Performance monitoring:
Line PM: Near end
Error second (ES): 0
Channel PM: Near end Far end
Bearer 0:
Code Violation (CV): 22 3
FEC: 170673 985
ATM data path PM: Near end Far end
Bearer 0:
HEC violation count (HEC): 344 N/A
G.997.1 Statistics (last 24 hours):
Failures:
Line failures Near end
Loss of signal (LOS): 0
Loss of frame (LOF): 0
Loss of power (LPR): 0
Performance monitoring:
Line PM: Near end
Error second (ES): 0
Channel PM: Near end Far end
Bearer 0:
Code Violation (CV): 22 3
FEC: 170673 985
ATM data path PM: Near end Far end
Bearer 0:
HEC violation count (HEC): 344 N/A
{admin}=
Re: Still having outage problems
21-09-2014 12:08 PM
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(Who gave you that name? Looking at your analysis and insight, you are anything but Dizzie!)
The router stats indicate that you are back on ADSL2+ (strange!). Your SNRM is rock steady at 10dB day and night which is unusually consistent and solid! 10dB is what you were seeing when on ADSL(1), so that has to be the first thing to have fixed - you need a SNRM reset. You might see 16.5Mbps on this line...
I am not disinterested in the Tx SNRM plots, generally one tends to focus on the Rx graphs as that is what has a greater impact on performance. The Tx plot was a right mess - this suggests that the REIN is a lower frequency than usual. I have a very flat Rx SNRM but the Tx SNRM is less than clean - see below - must do some research on this!
@CRT,
Do you have any ideas how this line got switched from ADSL2/2+ to ADSL(1)? I've heard suggestions that routers can force ADSL2/2+ standards, however I thought that the choice of ADSL(1) was a service provision setting? Is there a record of this line's setting having been changed recently? (See above posts.)
What is the target SNRM on this line please - 9dB or 12dB? Is the line stable enough to support a SNRM reset please?
Kevin
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Re: Still having outage problems
21-09-2014 12:57 PM
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I guess I have a tendency to try and help provide information as best to my ability, so others can check their symptoms.
Although in this day and age, we have the digital attitude to expect things to work at full pelt now (ie its either on or off!), there is a bit of underlying physics as to why things aren't performing as they should be, and that's half the heartache of people's expectations. Perhaps its a bit of common sense (or I'm a bit long in the tooth) having to consider the infrastructure that is in place while resolving problems. The exchange might have the up to date flashiest tech (and possibly the "tech" is more sensitive to these electrical disturbances), but if your cabling (underground or overground) is dated from way back when, then the chances of running into problems are fairly high.(This isn't a "Get Out Of Jail" card for ISPS and BTOpenreach to use!!!)
OK... back to the current situation. Stability is what I'm really interested in, that is my prime concern.
As you say, the stats look solid but how to explain the following speed tests?
1) After the engineer had been (18 Sep)
2) After Plusnets overnight job (19 Sep)
3) Gateway hop (21 Sep)
Re: Still having outage problems
21-09-2014 11:34 PM
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It is refreshing to hear someone who "gets it" good broadband experience is significantly predicated on the quality of the phone line, many of which have been in place for many decades.
As for explaining the speed variations, without contemporary router stats, it is only possible to speculate the cause. Your line has been seen to be running on ADSL(1) modulation - the slow speed is quite in line with ADSL(1) running at nearly top speed with interleaving on.
However given your reference to "PlusNet's overnight job" (I assume you mean the gateway crash) the slow speed could have been a facet of the other gateways being overloaded / out of balance.
What you really need right now is a boost to your raw synch speed, so I hope CRT will explore the merits of a SNRM reset (as discussed above) sometime on Monday. Until that happens, speed tests are a little futile; in the meantime continued RouterStats monitoring (I run mine all of the time) and occasional stats posting remain beneficial.
Kevin
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Re: Still having outage problems
22-09-2014 2:57 PM
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Stats will be haphazard as I will be dealing with through a third party HID (Human Interface Device also known as hubby) as I'm currently working away from home for the next 4 days. That will be fun (not) trying to tell him how to check on things. And I haven't quite got to grips with Win 8.1 yet and a touch screen laptop!
Let's see what CRT say about an SNRM reset
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