Rob Taylor said:
February 17th, 2009 at 9:44 am

I'm impressed that Plusnet are now introducing 'truly' Unlimited broadband, especially as Sky appears to be the only other ISP to offer this.
However, I'm far less impressed with the way the offer pricing is being pushed (i.e. £11.99 pm) rather than clearly showing the normal monthly price. The fact that some other ISP's do this does not make it right.
How do I know if I'm in a low cost area? This isn't clear from the frontpage.
Is 18 months a reasonable contract term, considering most are only 12 months?

foxy said:
February 17th, 2009 at 9:58 am

"Plusnet Unlimited broadband starts at £11.99 a month. If you live in one of our low cost areas you'll then pay £15.99 a month every month thereafter. If you live outside of one of these areas you'll then pay £19.99 a month thereafter."

This ia NOT explained on your website, or at least I can't find it.
What is a 'low cost area'? Some kind of social-class rating?

I am very interested in the product, but a FAQ would help...

Dave said:
February 17th, 2009 at 10:14 am

I am interested in the unlimited package, and also the pro package but the one reason I switched to Plusnet in the first place was because of the 1 month minimum contract, which no longer seems to be available on any package. I'm tempted to upgrade but I'm more likely to leave and find another provider that is sure enough of their product to offer short contract lengths.

Gricey said:
February 17th, 2009 at 10:17 am

Foxy,

If you look at the sections above entitled 'Geographical Pricing' and 'Market Pricing', this shows the differences.

Basically you are in one of the areas where there is more competition in the exchange between different providers, you'll find better pricing is available.

Specifically, "This deregulation means that we benefit from reduced supply costs in these areas (also known as ‘Market 3′ exchanges - see below) and allows us to compete more actively with LLU providers like the ones mentioned above. It also means that our customers get to benefit from lower baseline pricing."

HTH

Gricey

pberry said:
February 17th, 2009 at 10:17 am

Check out the Market Pricing paragaph and the Ofcom map that's linked to. It appears that "low-cost" is equivalent to "Market 3" and that is pretty much every major urban area according to the map (except Hull of course). If you think about economies of scale that would make sense.

It would be useful to have some kind of postcode/phone number low-cost checker made available. However I imagine Ofcom have not made this level of detail available yet.

I wait to be corrected or backed up by someone actually in the know

Mand said:
February 17th, 2009 at 10:41 am

Hi there,

Putting your number in the line checker on our website (https://www.plus.net/apps/signup/standard) will tell you what Market your exchange is in, as will checking your number on Samknows (http://www.samknows.com/broadband/search.php).

Regards
Mand

Richard said:
February 17th, 2009 at 10:50 am

Would the price decrease if my exchange changes to a 'Market 3' whilst i am in contract with Plusnet? My exchange is currently 'Market 2' which means i would pay the £19.99?
I'm also having the same thoughts as Dave above who mentions the minimum 1 month contract - is that not the case with these unlimited packages?

axisofevil said:
February 17th, 2009 at 11:48 am

It would appear that the BBYW products are no more expensive - and much more flexible.
(except for a small minority who downloads more than 30GB on a regular basis, doesn't need any web space and likes to be tied down to an 18 month contract).

And that's if you live near a major exchange!

njbower said:
February 17th, 2009 at 11:52 am

foxy - Thanks for your feedback. We're going to make sure we add links to more visible information (Product FAQs) that are in our Help & Support on the homepage. In the meatime you can find an FAQ on Unlimited at: http://www.plus.net/support/broadband/products/unlimited/unlimited_faq.shtml

Check point 10 - that will give you some information/further links about geographic pricing/Market areas.

Hope this helps

darkskye said:
February 17th, 2009 at 1:15 pm

Questions, which will no doubt be frequently asked!

1) How much will it cost on a Market 1 exchange? (I couldn't find the information out in less than 3 clicks and thus got bored of looking)
2) Is this product compatable with my existing Max Pro (812K Upload)?
3) I host websites (and its why I have the extra upload capacity), is this still suitable for me?

foxy said:
February 17th, 2009 at 1:25 pm

Thanks for the info. I've now upgraded to unlimited!
Cheers

woboz said:
February 17th, 2009 at 2:00 pm

Hi

How do I find out how traffic for a certain programme is classed?

Specifically, I use Microsoft Mesh to remote to my PC at work, is that classed as web, vpn or peer2peer?

More generally, is there a list of how traffic is classified for programmes like this?

Cheers

Dave

James Mitchell said:
February 17th, 2009 at 2:53 pm

So market 3 exchanges get cheaper broadband than market 1 exchanges. That's just fantastic -NOT. How can that be possibly fair? It's not the end users fault which market their exchange is deemed is it?

'Not everyone will be able to benefit from these price cuts (take a look on the Ofcom map). However, we’re confident that we’ll be able to offer our customers the best value broadband in their area.'

Yeah I'm one of those customers as my exchange (though no fault of my own is only a market 1 exchange) and NO you can't and don't offer the best value broadband as O2 for a start, offer cheaper unlimited off-network broadband than Plus Net does.

Mand said:
February 17th, 2009 at 4:12 pm

@ Richard - if your exchange becomes Market 3 during the contract you would get Market 3 pricing from the end of your contracted period. This works in reverse too (so if you went from Market 3 to Market 2 you would pay the lower price until the end of your contract).

The new products have an 18 month contract as standard, with the exception of Pro, which has a 12 month contract.

@ darkskye - Market 1 pricing is detailed on the sales pages. You can still use Max Premium and web hosting on the new products, if you have these already they will be automatically carried over.

@woboz - the best way to find out is to run a Wireshark capture, you can find out how to do this here: http://www.plus.net/support/broadband/troubleshooting/wireshark.shtml

@ James Mitchell - We can get cheaper broadband in those areas due to the deregulation by Ofcom, so we choose to pass those savings on in order to be more competitive when compared with LLU providers.

James Mitchell said:
February 17th, 2009 at 6:44 pm

@ Mand

'so we choose to pass those savings on in order to be more competitive when compared with LLU providers.' ...in other words market 1 exchange users are now subsibising market 3 exchange users.

Why should a user who just so happens to be on a market 1 exchange not pay the same as a user on a market 3 exchange? It NOT the users fault nor choice which exchange they are connected too. Yes if users had a choice of exchanges this might work but as users don't have a choice it's totally and utterly unfair for all market 1 exchange users.

You are just feeding and making the gap even bigger between inner city and rural exchanges. Yet again, users on smaller exchanges are losing out to users on larger exchanges.

The product you are selling is EXACTLY the same so charging different users different prices based on location is making broadband a post code lottery.

I've already asked for my MAC (which I'm still waiting for) as this really is the final straw now with Plus Net.

Mike Grice said:
February 17th, 2009 at 7:43 pm

Hi James,

I'm in a totally different department to Mand (I'm in Networks) so I may be wrong, but I don't see the negative side with geographic pricing...

The way I see it is like this (caveat: I am not a product manager or in finance!):

- PN launch a set of new products. They determine the profit per account is going to be X (X is never a big amount on any competitive BB product, because the market is very competitive)
- PN get some of these lines cheaper because of deregulation.
- Rather than make extra money off the lines that are cheaper, they discount the customers who are on these lines and end up making the same profit, but the customer pays less.

The way I see it is that PN are doing good here (charging less where it costs them less), but maybe thats just my view

The whole tiered market pricing thing is run by OFCOM to make the market more competitive... other ISPs will pick this up if they don't already (or they will decide to just make more money off the people in Market 3... their product choice). I don't see how that is a reason to dislike Plusnet, when they are just passing on the savings where their costs are lower.

Maybe they could have done something like average out the price of all the products. But then as people realise they are in Market 3, they will simply move to the providers that are passing on the wholesale discounts for the lines in their area.

Mike.

jmd said:
February 17th, 2009 at 7:50 pm

Have I read this correctly - if I change from Option 1 plus Homephone Anytime to Vale plus Homephone Anytime I save £5 per month, and gain more internet time. But do I stay on the CN21 trial which has given me a slightly faster speed than what I had [nothing like most people's] or do I revert back to being on very slow speed?
Am considering doing so but need to know these things first!

axisofevil said:
February 17th, 2009 at 9:00 pm

Correct me if I'm wrong, but someone like me on a Market 3 exchange living in London who not surprisingly lives reasonably close to the exchange gets a high speed.

Someone living in a rural area is unlikely to have cable etc on their exchange and will be market 1 or 2. It is likely that they live far from their exchange and get fairly slow download performance.

So those suffering poor performance will be subsidising those with a reasonably good performance!

James Mitchell said:
February 17th, 2009 at 10:24 pm

How can this possibly make broadband more competitive for market 1 exchanges?

There's ONE provider in my exchange and that's BT. No LLU. It's a market 1 exchange and likely to stay that way for the foreseeable future.

There's also no cable in by area. I have NO CHOICE at all when it comes when it comes to broadband. There's ZERO competition in my exchange so how on earth are you new products or OFCOMS tiered pricing going to make things more competitive in my area? Simple - It wont

It only makes broadband more competitive in market 3 exchanges, where there's already A CHOICE of one of more provider.

Explain to me exactly how this system will benefit any market 1 exchange user?

James Mitchell said:
February 17th, 2009 at 10:36 pm

'The way I see it is that PN are doing good here (charging less where it costs them less), but maybe thats just my view'

But why should someone with a different post code to me pay £5 less for exactly the same product I'm paying for? Like I said earlier, it's not the users fault that they are on a market 1 exchange. You can't choose which market exchange you want to connect to. The market nomination of the exchange is not based on the end user either. The end user has no say what so ever in this.

Mike Grice said:
February 17th, 2009 at 11:20 pm

James, as I see it, it makes broadband more competitive 'for people who are selling broadband against LLU operators in that exchange'.

You're right in that the people who aren't on M3 aren't seeing increased competition at the exchange, but it would seem that the OFCOM have taken the decision to deregulate based on the multiple providers selling against each other... meaning ultimately a better deal for the consumer *where this competition exists*.

I guess (again all my own uninformed opinion ) that OFCOM can't deregulate where there aren't multiple providers because they are all commercial entities and it would give one a commercial advantage over the other, which is one of the things OFCOM watch out for.

From the ISP perspective, the price of the wholesale product has gone down in some areas and they can choose to pass on those savings to who it applies.

From the user perspective, they will see a price reduction where the ISP can pass on the cost, but this is as you say different per postcode (but ultimately the responsibility of those who regulate the market).

So basically, you have OFCOM making sure you don't have a monopoly/price fixing/whatever, but those same checks and balances have a downside in that it has to work both ways, and sometimes that works out worse for some people.

As I said above, I don't really see a scenario where individual providers would average out the price across all their geographic areas to compensate, as the the way common sense works would just see all the M3 customers go join an ISP that has geographic pricing to get the best available deal for them.

axisofevil, I dont see how its one subsidisng the other, its a change in the wholesale cost, I dont think profit margins are affected as the price goes down both ways, ie the wholesale provider (eg bt) can sell it X cheaper, they will then pass on that saving to the ISP who will then pass on that saving to the customer. There's no 'extra money' floating round to subsidise the other bands. The issue here is regulatory and OFCOM driven, really.

My (possibly now a bit more than) 2p,

Mike.

deadkenny said:
February 17th, 2009 at 11:23 pm

Frankly I still think it's an abuse of the term unlimited if the service is throttled (more so than ever before it seems). Unlimited is unlimited. Nothing less. If the service has restrictions, it is not unlimited. In fact the throttling by definition will limit how much you can download (more so than just line speed).

Anyway, will have to pick over this carefully to compare to the old premier package (which has a favourable off-peak period). However, it's rather sneaky that these new cheaper packages have sprung up not that long after Plus hooked a load of us into a fixed term contract to get an extra discount for "free" ! .

helpful sunscriber said:
February 18th, 2009 at 5:54 am

Mand said: "Putting your number in the line checker on our website (https://www.plus.net/apps/signup/standard) will tell you what Market your exchange is in"

Not if you're already a PlusNet subscriber, it won't. It just says the exchange name.

"as will checking your number on Samknows (http://www.samknows.com/broadband/search.php)."

Yes, that one does.

helpful subscriber said:
February 18th, 2009 at 6:21 am

Using the upgrade process gives this link, so I can compare Option 2 to the new packages :-

https://portal.plus.net/support/broadband/quality_broadband/speed.shtml#Option2speeds

But the #Option2speeds anchor is dead, and there's nothing about Option 2 on that page. I expect it's buried on the site ... somewhere.

Besides, why can't we have a nice AJAXy selector which instantly summarises the differences between any two packages (old or new)?

helpful subscriber said:
February 18th, 2009 at 6:49 am

On this page: http://portal.plus.net/support/broadband/quality_broadband/speed.shtml

The index at the top includes this :-

"3. Plusnet Pro
Expected maximum downstream speeds"

Which should be linked to this :-

http://portal.plus.net/support/broadband/quality_broadband/speed.shtml#prospeeds

But is linked to this in error :-

http://portal.plus.net/support/broadband/quality_broadband/speed.shtml#valueprospeeds

As for the new offers, not everyone wants or needs a new router, and removing *any* month-by-month offer for new customer seems short-sighted to me. Maybe you'll add that once you've soaked up all the new "unlimited! must have that" punters.

Chris Parr said:
February 18th, 2009 at 9:17 am

@axisofevil

The products are not cross subsided market to market, we simply offer the lowest price point we can in each market.

Cheers.

Mand said:
February 18th, 2009 at 10:10 am

@deadkenny - The product is unlimited in that there is no cap, or FUP. There'll always be a debate surrounding management, but IMO as long as the management is clear, and the product sold based on that I don't see any major issues with that.

Regarding the recontracting offers, you can still move to the new products if you took one of these, or you can stay put at the discounted price. I don't see that we've been sneaky there at all.

@helpful subscriber - We are looking at the contract options, but for the initial launch the new products are 18 months, with the exception of Pro which is 12.

Regards
Mand

LiamM said:
February 18th, 2009 at 10:57 am

Hi Chris,

---

@axisofevil

The products are not cross subsided market to market, we simply offer the lowest price point we can in each market.

---

Is that totally true? Plusnet Pro is the same price market 1 and 2 as market 3 - yet Plusnet's costs are lower in Market 3?

srsly said:
February 18th, 2009 at 11:19 am

@deadkenny: If you want super awesome broadband that has no limits and no throttling, perhaps this would be better suited to your needs? http://www.superawesomebroadband.com/

Super Awesome = Not Cheap.

Broadband for £6 per month, plus (really) unlimited usage deal | BitterWallet said:
February 18th, 2009 at 2:03 pm

[...] you are still keen to torrent your bits, then Plusnet is also offering an unlimited broadband package, as in… unlimited. The ISP claims that advances in traffic management mean it can offer truly [...]

Chris Parr said:
February 18th, 2009 at 4:07 pm

@Liam

Pro is slightly different to Value and Unlimited as all the traffic is prioritised across our network, obviously this comes at a premium and therefore will cost more across the board. I don't actually know the intimate details of the pricing of this product so therefore can't comment really further on it.

LiamM said:
February 18th, 2009 at 4:38 pm

That doesn't really answer the point though, does it?

The point is Market 3 customers cost you less. Yet on Plusnet Pro you're charging them the same as Market 1 or 2 customers.

Yet you're saying that the products are not subsidised market to market - yet 'you're' charging market 3 customers more on Pro when 'your' own wholesale costs are lower?

From the blog post above :- "When designing products we calculate a usage allowance, which is arrived at by deducting the supply costs, tax, support costs, systems costs (mail, billing etc) and profit (we are a business after all!) from the product price."

There's no consistency in the message you're giving across here...

leonard j wilson said:
February 18th, 2009 at 4:57 pm

how will unlimited use affect me?

Darren J said:
February 18th, 2009 at 11:24 pm

So now Plus Net has gone the way of most other ISPs and set a 12 or 18 month minimum contract term, why then can you offer monthly terms after this period and not to start off with as previously? Just one other point, it may have been fairer to pass on the savings you get from Market 3 low cost exchanges across the whole customer base and make prices the same wherever they are located.

Victor said:
February 18th, 2009 at 11:44 pm

Another poorly thought out and executed change to the service provided
I've seen a number of changes and I have stayed on my old account costing me £15 a month, Your latest offerings still don't inspire me.
Value , unlimited or Pro !! Come on straight a way your creating a Tier system based on peoples ability to pay and nothing else.
I'm in area 2 according to your site and I'm hardly likely to move to Hull so basically you have created a discriminatory system just like the post code lottery of other services that fail to provide a good value service year after year. Congratulations you have managed to annoy about 95% of your customer base.

Mand said:
February 19th, 2009 at 11:48 am

@leanord j wilson - the customers on the unlimited product will not adversely affect existing customers. The traffic management implementation and the bandwidth forecasting we have in place will ensure that this is the case.

@ Darren J - it's possible to have a monthly contract after the initial term as the acquisition costs will have been paid off during the contract term.

With regards to geographic pricing, this is not new practice across the industry, some providers have been doing this for a long time now. To slightly reduce costs across the whole base instead would mean that we still weren't competitive enough to compete properly with the LLU providers. Given that approx 80% of the UK is covered by a Market 3 exchange the majority of customers will be able to take advantage of the lower prices.

Des said:
February 19th, 2009 at 11:59 am

Am I the only one who can't believe the speed caps that are being imposed?

I still can't get my head around why this is a good deal. Surely everybody wants faster broadband these days with ADSL2 being offered by LLU providers and soon from 21CN etc and yet this unlimited offer is at the expense of the very speed increases we all want.

I'm sure that there are a number of people like me who like to stream adverts and shows from the Apple film trailer site, BBC iplayer, Channel 4 OD, Sky etc, or get 1GB+ game demos from Xbox live / Playstation network, but if these are classed as download sites or download servers, we'll be getting a 'maximum' speed of 256Kbps or 512Kbps at peak times, (ie, in the evenings when people will want to use them!).

It looks even worse for peer to peer at 128Kbps!! I recently downloaded a mod for Oblivion that had new textures and changes to the game and was a large file, so the site used BitTorrent as their preferred method of download rather than mirror servers, (in fact I think I read somewhere that Sky were doing this too for their movies), at this speed, it'll take all night to get the file(s)!

So, we can choose to upgrade to an unlimited service but suffer when we want to use it with 'real' download speeds of 16KBps (128Kbps) to 64KBps (512Kbps) complete with the constant buffering when streaming video or downloads that take all night to finish?

No thanks, I'll stick with what I've got, I thought broadband speeds were moving forward with increasing speeds, not going back to the days of ISDN!! What's next? a new 56Kbps service so we can re-live the good old days of modem speeds!!??

James Mitchell said:
February 19th, 2009 at 2:49 pm

How can you possibly expect to even come close to competing with LLU in Market 3 exchanges when PN doesn't offer anything faster than upto 8MB???

There's absolutely no two ways about it - if LLU was available in my exchange, I certainly would not use Plus Net.

So what your saying is the other 20% of the UK which are either M1 or M2 can go and stick it. It's blatantly obvious, PN are now only interested in M3 exchange customers.

Lionel Ogden said:
February 19th, 2009 at 5:33 pm

once again those of us on rural exchanges are losing out. We get lower speeds, we are among the last to go onto the new faster packages and now we are expected to pay more for this privilege. Perhaps if we are going to get into post code lottery pricing the products should be priced on the download speed available. That would only seem fair.

Anonymous said:
February 19th, 2009 at 6:20 pm

Of the traffic classes identified above, into which do Streaming and VoIP fit? These protocols are more time-critical than a normal download and so surely need to be seperately classed with different speed caps.

What's more I know that iPlayer uses in the environment of 768kbps when it is streamed through a Flash 7 client, like on the Nintendo Wii. If you include Streaming in Download Servers, as I think you probably do, this would render this service unusable at certain times of the day even though the limit of bandwidth usage over the billing month has been removed. Can you please clarify this and dispell my worries.

Peter Jackson said:
February 19th, 2009 at 6:41 pm

@ Lionel, because of Ofcom deregulation we can offer customers in Market 3 areas a lower price because the lower wholesale costs in those areas allow us to.

It's unfortunate, for those in rural areas such as yourself, that deregulation could only take place in exchanges where multiple competitors are located. To do otherwise would, I'm sure, be considered to provide an unfair compeitive advantage.

But you're not paying 'more' in a non-Market 3 area (ie you're not subsidising other customers) it's simply that we can't offer the same lower price. It's not a case of semantics either, simply of economics. I'm not so sure that £11.99 per month for 'up to 8Mb' with 10Gb included is that bad - is it?

@ Des, if you want up to line speed perfomance on those protocols then you might like to consider Pro. Value and Unlimited use traffic management as described in order to provide a low-cost, sustainable product suitable for most peoples' average use. If it's not for you then by all means stick with your existing product or try Pro.

mitchell20 said:
February 19th, 2009 at 8:01 pm

'But you're not paying 'more' in a non-Market 3 area (ie you're not subsidising other customers) it's simply that we can't offer the same lower price. It's not a case of semantics either, simply of economics. I'm not so sure that £11.99 per month for 'up to 8Mb' with 10Gb included is that bad - is it?'

So why not spread the cost savings across all your customers then regardless of post code?

Which ever way you look at this and no matter how much marketing twist you put on this, M3 customers are paying less than M1 customers for exactly the same product - fact; so M1 customers *are* paying more than M3 customers for exactly the same product.

Rich said:
February 19th, 2009 at 8:38 pm

Could I confirm please that these new throttled speeds only apply to the Value and Unlimited packages. In particular, that they're not going to apply to existing packages (e.g. BBYW)

Up to now I have always recommended Plusnet to friends and customers. However at the speeds mentioned for these packages, I don't think I can honestly do so any more. Unless they sign up to the Pro package (twice the price of what used to be the cheapest standard option), they will end up with these slower speeds.

I agree with what Des said about going backwards. In fact, on the Value package, Peer to Peer between 6pm - 10pm is only 50Kbps - slower than dial up!

Tim Page said:
February 19th, 2009 at 11:01 pm

"So why not spread the cost savings across all your customers then regardless of post code?"

Because if PN became Friend of the Bumpkin tomorrow (me included), their products would instantly become less competitive in the towns and cities, and everyone would switch. That would leave PN with 10 per cent of its customer base (in M1), whose net price averaged with other Bumpkins (M1s) would be, er, the same as now. Outcome: PN goes bust.

It happens in all sorts of regulated markets. In some, we Bumpkins win (train fares from Shropshire to Birmingham at about a quarter of the price of those from Cambs to London), in others, we lose.

I guess you (a) shrug and accept it, (b) move or (c) elect a government with stronger socialist ideals than this one.

I don't see how PN can be cast as the villain here. Ofcom's effectively set (or allowed) different wholesale prices in each market - retailers either follow or die.

podman said:
February 19th, 2009 at 11:34 pm

Currently on Pro and market 3. I understand that Pro give non restricted download speeds but confused how if the line is cheaper that the cost is not slightly cheaper too.

I would also like an explanation on why the cost for pro is the same across all 4 markets if all pro customers have the same unrestricted speeds but the line is cheaper then how does this work. The explanation given for the reduction in speeds due to the market type means that pro should logically be cheaper.

Podman

Capvermell said:
February 20th, 2009 at 12:21 pm

There is no justification at all for Plusnet charging different prices in the different Market 1, 2, 3 areas when Plusnet delivers its entire service through BT Wholesale who charge Plusnet precisely the same amount per customer for the connection and the Centrals in all these areas so far as I am aware. This is quite different to Sky, Be/O2, Tiscali, Talktalk etc who have installed their own LLU equipment in certain Market 2 and Market 3 exchanges with their own backhaul links so have a genuine reason they can offer cheaper prices in those exchanges.

As a Market 1 exchange area customer I was about to switch to Plusnet on the basis of the 10Gb Broadband Your Way Option 1 deal it was promoting through USwitch in January that included phone line rental too at £19.50 per month including evening and weekend calls and with the first 3 months at £5 and £15 cashback for not taking a router. But now I find the price has gone up because I am in a Market 1 area. It is quite clear Market 1 customers are paying an excessive price to subsidise Plusnet offering cheap prices in Market 3 areas that are not a fair reflection of its own costs - this is because for Plusnet these costs are just the same as in Market 1 areas . Or are we saying that Plusnet will no longer use BT Wholesale for backhaul in Market 2 and 3 areas and will use Virgin/NTL, Cable & Wireless or whoever will provide it the backhaul most cheaply in those areas?

I can't understand how Plusnet can bring in pricing that pretends it has its own LLU equipment in Market 2 and 3 exchanges that lets it offer lower prices when in fact it uses BT Wholesale at all phone exchanges. This suggests Plusnet will now make huge profits on customers in Market 1 areas on its unlimited product (for which read in reality read massively throttled for heavy downloaders if anyone actually tries to make use of the so called unlimited as per Virgin, Tiscali and co - the only unlimited will in reality be the fact that the amount you can download once you are throttled to 128kbps or whatever and stuck on your own specially slow pipe with other heavy downloaders is not specified). By the way I am not a heavy downloader but it is obvious that Plusnet's claims to be offering genuinely unlimited are dishonest and led by the BT marketing tail now wagging the Plusnet dog.

Surely BT's 21st Century Network is coming to all phone exchanges and not those in just Market 3 so I don't see what Plusnet's justification is for this new pricing structure that discriminates against those of us living in Market 1 areas without any difference in Plusnet's operating cost base in those areas that justifies it doing so.

Bob Pullen said:
February 20th, 2009 at 12:24 pm

@Rich, the rate limits detailed in this post apply to the 'Unlimited' package only. The rate limits that have always been applied to BBYW products can be seen here - http://www.plus.net/support/broadband/products/archive/bbyw/speed.shtml

Capvermell said:
February 20th, 2009 at 12:42 pm

The so called "unlimited" packages are basically saying that oh well Tiscali, TalkTalk, Sky etc have been allowed by the ASA and Ofcom to get away with calling massively throttled connections unlimited so now we intend to join them. It is clearly dishonest to call them unlimited when they are heavily limited by throttling at any peak time. "No data limit but heavily throttled for any intensive download use at peak times" would be an accurate description.

As to 12 month contracts if a customer is migrating and has their own router there is no justification at all for it. This is anti-competitive behaviour of the worst kind which the cretins at Ofcom should stop in the name of competition - it isn't allowed for energy suppliers to lock you in for 12 months. A 12 month contract is only possibly justified if a customer gets a free new broadband connection and free router in the deal.

Lets face it the 12 month contract lock ins clearly indicate that BT is reigning in any freedom by Plusnet to behave differently and next year the whole thing will probably be re-branded as BT. Even their CEO is directly ex BT now.

Also thinking about it again given the stupid pricing in Market 1 surely anyone living in Market 1 who wants Unlimited should move to Pro instead as the price is the same. Either that or move to http://www.idnet.co.uk, http://www.newnet.co.uk or http://www.zen.co.uk who do not discriminate against those of us living in the countryside.

BT still has over 50% of the broadband marketplace so why should their pricing be derestricted when they still have Significant Market Power that means it should still be in place.

People living in the countryside don't pay more for gas or electricity so why should they have to pay more for phone or broadband?

Capvermell said:
February 20th, 2009 at 12:46 pm

Also as you are just BT by another name these days why are you still not including 0845 and 0870 calls in your bundled minutes phone line rental packages, especially for people living in Market 3 areas. Surely this is BT policy now.

Capvermell said:
February 20th, 2009 at 1:16 pm

Even in a Market 1 area you can get a massively throttled at peak times (misleading called unlimited) broadband connection from numerous other suppliers such as Sky, Tiscali, TalkTalk, Orange etc for less than £19.99 per month.

So why would anyone living in the countryside select one of Plusnet's sc called unlimited packages?

Mand said:
February 20th, 2009 at 1:30 pm

@Capvermell, as we've explained in the blog the BT Wholesale pricing *is* different in Market 3, following the deregulation from OfCom. 21CN will come to all exchanges eventually but naturally they're starting with the biggest/busiest ones.

Regarding the 0845/0870 numbers - yes we are part of BT, but we have separate products. To make 0845/0870 calls free would mean a price increase elsewhere, and we don't feel that's the most beneficial for our customers.

Capvermell said:
February 20th, 2009 at 3:00 pm

@Mand

I feel your marketing for your throttled unlimited service is deliberately dishonest though because it attempts to imply it is truly unlimited. But anyone downloading enough to want a truly unlimited package will not be able to live with the acute kinds of throttling to be imposed by Plusnet at all peak times on this product. I can live with the 2Mb ALT throttle imposed by Entanet in their peak periods but not this kind of throttling.

I ask again what is so special about your throttled product when a large number of your competitors offer their "unlimited" throttled products in "Market One" areas for less money. Given that 15Gb Broadband Your Way Pro only costs £20 per month for an unthrottled service surely anyone content with a massively throttled service in a Market One area will surelt not want to pay more than £15 per month? And if they really need to download 70Gb per month then your "unlimited" service clearly won't suit their needs as they will have to wait forever for it to download.

OK sure its supposed to be "unlimited" instead of 15Gb but the teenagers of any adults who gets locked in to a 12 month contract on your supposedly "unlimited" service only to find their kids cannot download what they want to for hours are going to end up being very unhappy. Those kind of people would be much better off with the high download allowance madasadish products in the Plusnet stable that receive the same priority as Broadband Your Way Pro.

Also why did you test out pricing for your capped 10Gb service for your Broadband Option 1 Your Way service in December and January that was the same in Market 1, 2 and 3 areas only to introduce pricing that was completely different in each area in February. Also why has the £15 cashback if you don't need a router been withdrawn. Loads of customers don't now need a router so this is environmentally unfriendly.

jasonyuk1 said:
February 21st, 2009 at 9:30 am

Im still on the old freeserve 2GB peak (4pm to 12am) unlimited off. Plusnet slightly changed this with a 30GB off limit. I have been looking for unlimited, this looked good, but the throttle level will look way too slow when 20mbs arives. Granted you can still surf and do other stuff at the full line speed (this is also throttled depending on time), it will be the download servers that will suffer.

By doing this pusnet are actually applying a physical cap level, slowing the speed will limit the amount that can be downloaded in a period of time. A sort of stealth limit on a unlimited product.

I think unlimited and faster speeds do not go hand in hand, obviously a faster download speed will mean people downloading more material, costing +net more money.

On demand in this model does not work, unless you pre manage what you want to watch the day before and download after midnight, so a sort of on demand the day after you wanted to watch or play it. If and when 20mbs comes it will not improve the on demand there and then speeds.

I can see +net putting a limit on the 12am to 12pm model as well, possibly to 4mbs so unlimited will become capped, (restricting the bandwith restricts the amount of download possible) or to keep the unlimited brand allow full speed for 1 hr at the lowest peak time say 4am.

For me I dont as yet download much but the level is rising and need a bit more bandwith. But I dont want to have slow downloads on the large files.

Stuart Gilliland said:
February 21st, 2009 at 10:47 am

I'm glad I read this thread before committing to a new unlimited package. Just to confirm I've got this right - I'm currently on the Option 2 15Gb package and having to pay for either 2 or 4 additional Gb's each month (kids streaming TV) so £18-19 per month on average. I thought it easier to just get the unlimited package and pay the £19.99 (as I'm in the wrong market space). Given the comments in this thread it looks like the unlimited package comes with some serious throttling; effectively making it not fit for purpose? I have to say, in the past few weeks I've been experiencing some extremely long download times - especially for software packages etc. Is this related to other service changes?

James Mitchell said:
February 21st, 2009 at 1:11 pm

It will be intresting to see what happens in terms of traffic increases when iTunes start offering their online streaming service (which is rumoured to be not very far away)

Plus Net currently identify iTunes download traffic as P2P which will have a big impact on streaming when it's launched if you on the unlimited package.

Daran said:
February 21st, 2009 at 7:29 pm

The £5.99 value pricing with the small print of 'first three months' is a spin on openess and honesty IMO. And yes, why could Plusnet not balance out the payments so that ALL it's customers benefit? Although an admin overhead for PN quite possibly, it would show good intent to it's loyal customers (like me).

As a rural dweller why should I subsidise some merchant banker ponce in London who has helped screw up the economy and cost me £5k already in salary reductions this year alone - and he gets a faster speed as he lives closer to the exchange!

And mugs like us have to pay an increase of £2.75 a month over current Option 1 package for a mere 8 GB increase after the initial 3 months '£5.99 special offer for rural peasants' is up.

Not good Plusnet, not good at all. No wonder you didn't send me an email to publicise this 'deal'.

Stuart Gilliland said:
February 22nd, 2009 at 9:27 am

Can anyone recommend an alternative to plusNet?

Ian Caldwell said:
February 22nd, 2009 at 10:51 am

Having the first three mouths as the headline price is wrong. I am surprised the ASA allows it.

mitchell20 said:
February 22nd, 2009 at 3:11 pm

The key word in the advertising is the word 'from' - that one single word gets most suppliers out of sticker advertising complaints

Roger Donne said:
February 22nd, 2009 at 5:43 pm

You could say this is an 'unlimited' marketing clanger. For years, Plusnet (and I go back to the Free-online days) has been telling its loyal customers that unlimited broadband is a myth and slagging off those providers who use weasel words and small print to promise to provide such. Now isn't this exactly what we are now offered? A complicated pricing structure - worse than a railway ticket - long contracts, throttled speeds and extremely small print. Where are you going, Plusnet?

Stuart Gilliland said:
February 22nd, 2009 at 6:32 pm

I'm now annoyed enough to move - but is it a case of frying pan and fire? I moved from pipex (after they sold out to Tiscali) to plusnet; anyone recommend a decent, open, honest, customer focused provider?

ant bro said:
February 22nd, 2009 at 7:05 pm

Ive just read nearly all these entries and im impressed with all the extra info thats supplied by all the customers etc. Though im not impressed with 'the company line'thats trotted out in response! Also Why cant the 'officials'CLEARLY identifiy themselves as employees rather than myself having to work things out via - wow thats an indepth answer - oh its an 'official'?! Also a few things could be clearer- such as whats BBYN? i got and understood most if not all of the comments on apart from that. Definately looking elsewhere than a BT subsidary (again not clearly idnetified!)

Peter Jackson said:
February 22nd, 2009 at 9:31 pm

@Roger - we've been completely open about how our traffic management works and how we're using it to provide a product that offers unlimited downloads. We've also been open about how we've changed our stance on unlimited - hence the blog. We've got the new products because we know our customers want to buy them. If anything the new products have a much simplified pricing structure compared to BBYW and its deferred payment options. If traffic management isn't for you then we have the Broadband Pro product of course.

@Stuart - If you're finding your Option 2 package doesn't suit your needs now why not give us a call and we can try to find a package that does suit you? All we're doing with the new products is making sure that Plusnet remains amongst the most competitively-priced providers, and that we continue to provide good value. Existing customers can continue on their BBYW products.

Derek Todd said:
February 23rd, 2009 at 12:18 am

@Peter Jackson on being open about how traf management works - I can't find the traffic management explanation tables for BBYW products anymore. I assume it's just hard to find or will be back shortly?

As for the Market 1-3 stuff; not directly Plusnet's fault, but it further expands the differentiation between broadband in rural and urban areas. The rural speeds are already much lower due to a lower density of DSLAM sites leading to longer lines. Now we pay £4 a month more for a much lower speed. My MP has an interest in this topic, and has said he is of a mind to propose regulation of broadband on the terms of public utility - I think this could provide a useful wedge to that aim. The choice has to be made between everything as 'market forces', or, like telephones, a public utility, availability for all (and that's not just a rural-urban issue, of course).

Diesyl said:
February 23rd, 2009 at 1:53 am

Can someone clarify the difference between Download sites, download servers and P2P? Maybe give examples, it all sounds the same to me, downloading data.
As for the argument over pricing areas, I think its unfair, but is it not Ofcom's, rather than Plusnet's fault? At least Plusnet have told us about it, not pocketed the difference.
The speed restrictions are a bit lower in some areas than BBYW, but then if we max out at those speeds it might not be so bad. The worst affected like binary Usenet is something I have never used.
I dont like 18 month contracts, its holding me off ordering at present.
At least it will be better than life with TalkTalk.

Peter Jackson said:
February 23rd, 2009 at 1:48 pm

@Derek The old BBYW info pages have been moved into the archive area. a Search of the website will bring it up but you can navigate there from the support pages:
http://www.plus.net/support/broadband/products/archive/bbyw/speed.shtml

Andy said:
February 23rd, 2009 at 2:00 pm

This is all very nice and dandy but when are you going to do something for business users who can't even get an inclusive package with more than 2GB* and pay more than domestic users for the privilage
8 other than business pro which just ignores the issue and doesn't say what's included

Andy said:
February 23rd, 2009 at 2:15 pm

While were at it, amidst all this talk of "completely open" (Mr Jackson), when is plusnet goint to drop the Up to 8MB tagline when the not so small print makes it quite clear that 7MB is the absolute max?

oji-san said:
February 23rd, 2009 at 3:38 pm

As a user who mainly uses broadband for web browsing, email and occasional downloads the Value package looks like good value.

The thing I am not entirely happy about (as an existing customer) is the 18 month contract.

Also, the FAQ says that if you already have web space, CGI or domain names then you will keep them. Is hosting no longer available to new customers? If so, it is going to impossible to recommend Plus Net to anyone in future.

I do think that the term "post-code lottery" is utterly meaningless. Remember, it was made up by one bunch of weasels to abuse another! Is the fact that a house in the East End is cheaper than one in the West End a "post-code lottery"? No, just market forces. Where you live affects how much you pay for housing, food, petrol and everything else. Some will be cheaper and some more expensive.

The 10th said:
February 23rd, 2009 at 5:56 pm

@ Des - "Am I the only one who can't believe the speed caps that are being imposed?" --

I agree and think likewise. Countries are announcing increasing BB speeds but what we have here is a limitation on our current speeds. So much for MAX broadband - looks like there is one step forward and two back. Of course we can move to 'Pro' but that isn't Unlimited and not the same Pro that BBYW had with the bells and whistles. So that leaves marketing hype and the Devil certainly is in the detail. Once the Market Exchanges are examined all that glitters is, indeed, not gold unlike a large part of our traffic used to be.

Why didn't PN leave the existing BBYW products active for new customers and then they would see exactly what sells. I have a strong suspicion that BBYW would win.

Peter Jackson said:
February 23rd, 2009 at 5:59 pm

Following your feedback asking us to look again at the contract length for existing customers, we're pleased to confirm that existing customers (whose current products were launched prior to the refresh) can now move to the new products with a 12-month contract. You will be able to take advantage of the 3-month lead price, however this offer does not include the hardware.

If you wish to take up this offer please raise a ticket on your account stating your wish to take a 12-month contract option on one of the new products. Please do note that this offer does not include product changes within the new family of broadband products and applies to current customers on old products only.

Capvermell said:
February 24th, 2009 at 10:31 am

[quote]I'm now annoyed enough to move - but is it a case of frying pan and fire? I moved from pipex (after they sold out to Tiscali) to plusnet; anyone recommend a decent, open, honest, customer focused provider?[/quote]

It depends a little how much you download per month and what you can afford to pay.

However there are only three home broadband suppliers who can guarantee you full line speed at all times with no throttling (ever) and who also only have one month contracts. These are http://www.newnet.co.uk, http://www.idnet.co.uk and http://www.zen.co.uk None of them vary their charges between large and small exchanges and none of them use LLU.

Of these Newnet and IDnet are the best bet if you can live with a smaller download cap (either 1Gb or 3b options at Newnet or 5Gb at IDNet) but if you need 20Gb to 30Gb per month there is not much to choose between them as they all do services between £20 and £25 per month. None are as cheap as the Plusnet Market 1 area deals are but then those deals offer a very limited heavily throttled service. This is contrary to the quite unspeakable Plusnet lies about the nature of their so called "unlimited" product perpetrated at the top of this blog.

I fail to see why anyone even vaguely in their right mind wanting an unthrottled broadband service would ever migrate in to Plusnet Broabdand Pro at £20 per month with only a 15Gb allowance and an eighteen month contract as these three independents are offering up to another 10Gb per month more for less than £5 per month with only a one month contract.

It is inexcusable that existing customers who wish to change their Plusnet broadband product should be on any more than a one month contract but this is the inevitable consequence of offering artificially low monthly rental prices in the first three months to try and deceive new customers about the long term price of the product (a very longstanding strategy of Plusnet's now overly domineering parent - BT). Existing Plusnet customers should be allowed to switch Plusnet products and keep only one month's notice to migrate elsewhere provided they are willing to forgo the artificially discounted product prices for the first 3 months.

It should be noted that apart from BT that TalkTalk is the only other broadband supplier in the marketplace to require an 18 month contract. So it says a lot about where Plusnet is now heading that it chooses to follow the example of the two broadband suppliers with probably the worst reputations for product quality in the entire broadband marketplace!

Stuart Gilliland said:
February 24th, 2009 at 7:49 pm

Capvermell - much appreciated and your point is very well put. Off to look at the 'competition' now.

Peter Jackson said:
February 24th, 2009 at 7:58 pm

@ Stuart Are you unhappy with your broadband product? Do you want to move to one of the new products and aren't sure of your options? Give us a call or raise a ticket on your account and we'll be happy to look at the options available to you.

Stuart Gilliland said:
February 24th, 2009 at 8:27 pm

Peter - my 15Gb allowance is not enough (three comps on the go at home and kids streaming TV so paying for 2/4 Gb's extra per month). Initially the unlimited package looks like a 'no brainer' but the 'small print' in terms of speed and 12 month contract is just not attractive enough to make the switch. Just had a look at the competitors sites suggested by Capermell and I have to say IdNet is looking pretty attractive for not much more - £24 per month 30Gb download (no throttling)- 0800 customer service and ONE month contract. Even their phone deal is cheaper than what I'm paying you guys. It's not looking good for plusNet - is it?

Stuart Gilliland said:
February 24th, 2009 at 8:31 pm

I have to add that I'm not in the 'right' market space so would pay the higher price for the new PlusNet service. Again, not very attractive.

Mike Kiely said:
February 25th, 2009 at 4:15 pm

Fao:Mand Beckett
You responded to a short blog I wrote on the Convergence Conversation. I needed a point of clarification. If I am wrong, happy to change the blog. On the new unlimited it shows you restrict downloads from servers to less than 512Kbps. In my opinion even if iPlayer traffic is prioritised, it needs in excess of 600Kbps to run smoothly.

Keith said:
February 26th, 2009 at 10:45 am

What about the 20MB ADSL which they advertise is coming soon.
Do you expect these to be higher rate packages or is everyone going to be upgraded from the current 8MB speed?
I'm concerned that if I join the unlimited package which is currently upto 8Mbs for a minimum contract of 18 months that I won't be able to switch to the 20MB service until 18 months

Peter Jackson said:
February 26th, 2009 at 4:50 pm

@Mike K. iPlayer Traffic is categorised as streaming and given Gold prioritisaton on our network. See http://www.plus.net/support/broadband/quality_broadband/traffic_prioritisation.shtml for more details. There shouldn't be any reason why iPlayer wouldn't run smoothly.

Stuart Gilliland said:
February 26th, 2009 at 6:11 pm

OK - resolved. MAC code requested and received now moving else where.

William Lees said:
February 27th, 2009 at 11:04 am

I have to echo what others are saying here. PlusNet's service is good, but we all know how quickly things can change at an ISP, and a 12 or 18 month lock in just isn't acceptable to me - so if that's the way forward for PN, I'm locked in to a 'legacy' service now.

I'm also becoming a bit concerned about the traffic shaping. I can't get Skype to work reliably here, and I've been waiting weeks to have a VoIP application called Mumble prioritised properly. I appreciate your being open about traffic shaping policies but I don't feel that imposing them so extensively is the right way to develop the service. Another reason I wouldn't want a 12 month contract.

James said:
February 27th, 2009 at 12:00 pm

@ William Lees

I've just had a quick chat with one of our Network guys here. We made a change to "Mumble" yesterday. Can you see if you have noticed an improvement in service?

Peter Jackson said:
February 27th, 2009 at 1:37 pm

@William Blog comments aren't the best forum to raise tech support queries and for us to help you. If you're having trouble with Skype why not raise the issue over in the forums? (Apologies if you have alreday done so).
http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/board,39.0.html

Stephen Elms said:
February 27th, 2009 at 5:31 pm

I've had the chance to review the new products and the trafficd shaped unlimited appears unsutable and the Pro looked good until I ssaw the download capping.

axisofevil said:
February 27th, 2009 at 8:00 pm

Unlimited means limited.
It's severely throttled.

Stuart Gilliland said:
February 27th, 2009 at 9:05 pm

What made me ask for a MAC code was the customer service adviser - she stated that I will still have my 8Mb download limit if I switched to the unlimited package; NO MENTION of a 12 month contract, NO MENTION of limited download speeds. Indeed, I had to explain to her the REALITY for long standing, loyal and knowledgeable customers.

Oooh...I'll get you the MAC code. Need I say anymore?

I did expect a bit of a haggle to retain my custom and, to be fair, was prepared to consider reasonable offers. At the end of the day it's all a hassle so any reasonable compromise would have been considered but there we have it. I'll leave you all to come to your own conclusions as to where plusNet's strategy is heading.

william lees said:
February 28th, 2009 at 6:30 pm

Many thanks for the followups to my post, which I wasn't expecting but are appreciated. I mentioned the things I did as an example of why I feel it is a mistake from the customer point of view to move away from monthly contracts and to focus on traffic shaping as such a fundamental part of the service, not because I was looking for help with them specifically.

In answer to your question James, there has indeed been a change to the way Mumble traffic is prioritised - it's now correctly prioritised provided the server is configured to send on one particular port. This is only a partial solution at best, but having said that it's better than nothing. I've logged this in the support ticket I opened in mid Jan.

I haven't had time to look into the skype issues in any detail but when I do I will reach out for help as you suggest Peter. But I'd much rather not have to factor in traffic shaping as one of the things to worry about.

Bill McIver said:
March 1st, 2009 at 12:59 pm

I am very disappointed by plusNet's complete about face here.
Unlimited broadband is like virginity; neither can be conditional.

tgr said:
March 2nd, 2009 at 12:30 am

I do not know how I stand. I am paying 9.99 for 2GB and now see that newcomers can get 10GB for 5.99. Surely I should be automatically upgraded to 10GB. I always felt that when BT took over plusnet it would quickly deteriorate and become a cash cow for BT and it appears that i am right no doubt the standards of service will now go down hill and all the poor staff at plusnet will carry the can and take the brunt of angry customers but will that worry BT i doubt it. They have had years of upsetting customers and are experts at it. That is why thousands of people dropped BT telephone service because of poor service the main reason why their shares are languishing at 80p when they used to be in pounds. BT have always had one of the lowest rating for customer service and have always been at the top of my hate list (now of course they are second bankers have No 1 spot at the moment)

Gordon

greetings said:
March 2nd, 2009 at 5:58 pm

tgr - no one in their right-mind would want to be automatically upgraded to the new product range! You should look at the throttling and also what Market exchange your broadband connection is on.

You need to ask if you use the 2GB because if not then why move to 'unlimited'? Don't know what extras you have at present but I doubt you have an 18month contract to think about.

Diesyl said:
March 2nd, 2009 at 9:27 pm

Just a thought, but how much do other ISP's throttle speeds, and we don't know about it because they just don't tell us? I am interested if anyone has links, going to have a nosy round and see. And where did 18 months come from anyway?

Tony Vickerman said:
March 3rd, 2009 at 8:56 am

Forget unlimited why have Plus Net decided to set limits and now cut you off when you reach them. Previously they just choked the connection so it was slower (if that seems actually possible!!). Now you just get cut off completely, now thats what I call progress and service. Just awaiting my code to leave this poor service

James said:
March 3rd, 2009 at 1:31 pm

Hi Tony,

Are you referring to the Value service? If that's the case, you're getting an extra 8GB compared to the old BBYW Option 1 package for less money (if you're on a Market 3 exchange). Not to mention that the usage allowances are only during peak hours, with no restrictions on overnight usage.

It's also worth mentioning that we've made absolutely no changes to our existing products. If there's something that I've missed, please do let me know.

James

Basil70 said:
March 3rd, 2009 at 11:18 pm

Animal farm... four legs good, two legs bad. Unlimited, no such thing. Repeat after me.

Hold on! What's that?

Er, two legs good, four legs bad. We do unlimited broadband!!! Ta-da!

Slightly dodgy integrity here, folks. And stop hiding behind OFCOM. Long contract lock-ins, headlining discounted pricing and using small print, geographical pricing? Taken a sincerity pill from Tony Blair? Can the real PlusNet please stand up?

All that stuff over the last two years about the reversion to the "honest" PlusNet following the email debacle, and now it looks like the Mad Men are in charge (v. good, watch on BBC4/ HD BTW).

I was going to sign a friend up who'd never had broadband before, but the more I read, the less I like.

This is very disappointing indeed.

Mike Lockyer said:
March 5th, 2009 at 9:08 am

AS a user of one of the capped older products - I would consider moving to the uncapped products because I always have problems with my fixed 4Gb peak time allowance.

The price is not the problem

But I will not move because

- having been with plusnet for many, many years I won't sign a 12 month contract

- I have serious concerns that the new option will support my current needs and future needs

- in particular with FreeSat about to support IPlayer (Q3) I need good bandwidth in the peak times

- also plusnet was going to support BTVision - last year - we are still waiting

So as a loyal customer of many years - there no longer seems there is an upgrade path for me - only a downgrade (for more money)

townman said:
March 5th, 2009 at 8:12 pm

@ njbower said:
February 17th, 2009 at 11:52 am

you can find an FAQ on Unlimited at: http://www.plus.net/support/broadband/products/unlimited/unlimited_faq.shtml

Check point 10 - that will give you some information/further links about geographic pricing/Market areas.

This has nothing to do with market pricing - link or target page screwed?

Andy C said:
March 8th, 2009 at 9:02 am

I have to laugh when I read above that some people have 'upgraded' to unlimited.

I have been trying it out for a couple of weeks and its an awful service which I have already complained about and in fact want to be moved back to the limited package ASAP.

Why you may ask? well because the speeds at times when my family really need it are pathetic by any broadband standards these days.
Unlimited is misleading because you wont be awake long enough to download anything of any size - its that limited in speed!! - its rubbish - I would rather spend an extra £5 to get back to where I had 5 or 6 Mbits whereas now on 'unlimited' I get less than 200K often - I rest my case.

Peter Jackson said:
March 9th, 2009 at 5:50 pm

@AndyC - we've made the fact that we use traffic management to prioritise types of downloads very clear throughout. This page http://www.plus.net/support/broadband/quality_broadband/speed.shtml is clearly linked to from the signup page and explains what speeds you should expect for what type of download. Binary Usenet downloads, just for example, is line speed overnight, but will go down to as low as 128kbps between 6pm-10pm.

oji-san said:
March 13th, 2009 at 11:19 pm

For my usage, the new Value package looks like a good deal. But I am really unhappy about even the 12 month lock-in.

Jane said:
March 15th, 2009 at 7:58 am

Having read about £5.99 per month offer, I was all ready to connect my mother's phone to plusnet, her first ever, and probably lifetime, broadband connection. Only to find that plusnet are penalising the rural areas by bumping up the price after 3 months. OK, it costs more with BT, but so what? The numbers involved must be small. Now I have to go online searching for a better deal. What a waste. I am outraged!

Kevin said:
March 16th, 2009 at 9:02 am

I think OFCOM have got it wrong and PN have done the best with the available options.
In Market 1 areas, subscribers will be drawn to ISPs that use the same price for all users (Market 3 effectively subsidising Market 1 & 2)
In Market 3 area, subscribers will be drawn to ISPs like PN who charge based on the market
The first option is not sustainable as there will end up being just Market 1 subscribers. IMO PN have taken the only practical route when it comes to pricing.

However, when it comes to "Traffic Management" - I'd love full speed for everything 24X7 but at the moment that is not commercially viable.
But is the Unlimited Traffic Management really any worse than we have now on the old BB products? In my opinion, not really - The important things are still prioritised and have full bandwidth, VPN, Web Browsing, Streaming, but unlike my existing product, there is no usage cap. I still need to read the fine print but I’m pretty sure I’ll be switching (Especially as I’m Market 3).

I'd be interested to learn what constitutes streaming though - I assume this includes the Web version of BBC iPlayer, but not the iPlayer application which I guess is P2P. Also iTunes movies can be watched as they are downloading - does this count as downloading or streaming?

leahk said:
March 16th, 2009 at 10:29 pm

OK, I read though the FAQs and still have some questions.

Q1. I'm currently on BB Premier Option 1 - I've been comparing the traffic management with the unlimited product. VPN is not listed as one of the types subject to traffic management for BB Premier Option 1 - Is that correct?

"FAQ 13. Does Plusnet Unlimited come with domain hosting?
No, hosting isn't included. If you need to host a domain you might want to take a look at Just The Name.
If you're already a customer with hosted domains and move to Plusnet Unlimited you won't lose these."

Q2. Does the statement "you won't lose these" mean "you won't lose the domains" or does it mean "You will continue to host my domains"?

Q3. I currently have "Max Premium". Is this affected if I switch to Unlimited?

Thanks

Reddog said:
March 17th, 2009 at 8:51 pm

I like the Plusnet packages to be honest, why? cause i'm 85% online gamer 25% downloader/streamer. Unlimited is wat it is, no Gb limit per month. I wouldn't care if they stopped all p2p and downloads to 0 (peak), although Plusnet will not admit this, they seem to be a Great ISP for gamers, its all about the latency baby Great job PN keep them highways clear at peak times so i can enjoy a 20ms ingame....

ozzie1968 said:
March 28th, 2009 at 10:32 pm

is it avllable to the whole country yet ???

Len said:
April 1st, 2009 at 8:38 am

Well, currently I use BBYW option 2 and I've never exceeded the 15Gb limit - in fact I've only come close to it on one or two occasions - so providing plusnet is still standing by the speed caps previously published for that product "unlimited" offers no noticable benefits for the extra cost after the first quarter. "Pro" would be nominally faster but I suspect mostly my downloads are throttled elsewhere on the net. I assume there is no pro-unlimited to prevent the mass file-sharers from hogging the lines but that's not my thing anyway.

So there seems to be no particular reason for me to change. Given the much hyped openness I assume that plusnet will come clean if the throttling on BBMW changes? It would be irritating if we were just quietly put onto the unlimited throttling matrix without being told since it is for the most part more restrictive. Also, how long to plusnet expect to maintain BBMW before transitioning us to a new package?

Ally said:
April 1st, 2009 at 3:57 pm

I've just signed up today and I am seriously considering cancelling the account. I am a big usenet and p2p user and download at all times of the day! My kids all use the net for streaming tv and this throttling is not sufficiently advertised with the 'unlimited' £15.99/18.99 option. I read the views of people who have been using plusnet for years and they loved it.... only in the last year or 2 have the comments become more and more negative. I think I may have to cancel... also 18 months is a bit too long for an initial contract!

Is this fair use cr@p going to be looked at before you drive current and prospective customers away?

chickendippers said:
April 3rd, 2009 at 9:50 pm

I don't consider myself a heavy user, I've certainly never gone near my 30GB limit so when I do fancy downloading the occasional demo I would like to receive my full line speed, especially as I don't tax it most of the time.

To then only receive 256Kbps is really starting to take the piss.

I'm also disappointed at the introduction of such long contracts. Did you not like receiving praise for offering a no-minimum-term service? A definite step backwards in my opinion.

For me it certainly makes more sense to stay on BBYW3 for the time being...and O2 are looking increasingly attractive.

Steve said:
April 4th, 2009 at 11:54 pm

Advertising this as unlimited is underhanded and dishonest.

Liam said:
April 5th, 2009 at 1:57 pm

Perhaps this is why O2 are now cleaning up where Plusnet were?

http://broadband.o2.co.uk/home/awards.jsp

StuG said:
April 5th, 2009 at 4:33 pm

Just moved to idnet - £4.50 more per month than the plusnet unlimited package - 30Gb un-throttled. Fantastic!

http://www.speedtest.net/result/445459272.png

AndyT said:
April 15th, 2009 at 3:49 pm

If PlusNet were sure that the new packages were better for us users (rather than better for them) then they would CONTINUE to offer the previous BBYW packages along side them. They can't expect us to believe they removed them for the benefit of us customers.

Also I guess I can no longer move up and down the BBYW packages from 1 2 3 and back again each month as in the past. In fact just went to my control panel and can only change to one of the new ones it seems.

Still happy at present with BBYW opt 2 but would now no longer recommend PlusNet to my friends. What a pity.

Lee said:
April 16th, 2009 at 7:32 pm

This is wonderful and all, but "maximum" speeds don't mean much, if anything. What we want to see is the exact opposite -- the minimum speeds.

I've heard that people are getting 4Kbps on Plusnet --- slower than dialup. How about posting some guarantees of service quality?

alan said:
May 26th, 2009 at 9:17 pm

Perhaps the above explains why I enjoy 6mbps one day and the next reduced to barely 500kbps. I was enjoying that speed at all times of the day but now have to endure the lower speed until PN decide to unchoke my broadband.
Since going on to Option 3 last December my broadband speed has fluctuated.
I suppose I keep downloading too much too soon

Oz said:
July 1st, 2009 at 4:08 pm

Just rang customer support on 0845 140 0200 to inquire about the unlimited package and to clarify some features of this product (before, reading this forum page).

I am disappointed with the level of service that I received. The person in the call centre didn't know the difference between down load limits and traffic management/throttling.

Kelly Dorset said:
July 1st, 2009 at 4:17 pm

What was the question you were asking?

ip said:
July 12th, 2009 at 1:06 pm

I, too, have been with PN from the days of 512Kb broadband. In those days 512Kb meant just that. I have been on Premier option 1 ("up to" 8Mb) for a few years now, and quality-wise it is now worse than when it was 512Kb!
Connection is dropping, speed is horrible, I constantly hit the traffic limits, etc, etc.
I have been considering an Unlimited package and asked PN support to confirm that my level of service would not go down compared with Premier O1. Guess what - they refused to positively confirm that! The only thing they are quite emphatic about is that after having been with PN for,what, 10 year? I will now be subject to 12 month contract if I "upgrade".

I did mention to them that I have my house connected to Virgin Media and can switch in a flash. Do you think they cared? Not in the slightest.

The main reason I am still writing this rather than calling up Virgin is because my whole family has very active PN e-mail addresses. We do have alternative arrangements, but that is not the point: All our correspondents do use PN e-mail addresses.

Therefore does anyone know how can I keep my PN e-mail addresses - or re-direct them to an alternative address en masse? perhaps via MX records or some such?

I have a web domain registered elsewhere, perhaps I can use that somehow to achieve that?

I would really hate if I were forced to pay PN anything after I've switched away from them!

And to think that PN used to have the highest customer satisfaction rate in the country!

Petra said:
September 15th, 2009 at 1:20 pm

I'm also on Premier 1 and tbh I don't get any problems - apart from today that is where it's been out since 3am so I'm using my unlimited Sky BB at the mo instead of my plus net account (I agree with ip as I use my plus net emails as my main emails and although you can receive them through Sky you can't send anything through them which is a pain), I was thinking of moving to Unlimited, but not sure I want to now. I regularly download over 30GB per month as I design websites and graphics etc and use loads of the bandwith for uploading and downloading graphics, templates, scripts etc and I do this during the day so I don't want to lose my daytime allowance as I very rarely use it from 8pm till 9am so I'm not sure what to do....

Petra